Is global warming a scam?

No probs - We get the UN peacekeepers to patrol the dividing "no eat" line separating the penguin zone from the bear zone. At least that is one peacekeeping mission that I could support wholeheartedly!

But what if the bears were Jewish? and the Penguins palestinian.

Oh the bloodshed.

Well the penguins would get a fence put up around them for there own protection and the bears get apache gunships so they could fly over every once in a while to piss the penguins off.

Study says warmer ocean water means less oxygen

Stop Press: Now we have a decade of global cooling according to German scientists:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7376301.stm

Shock Horror. April weather patterns 100% normal:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weat...icle3857917.ece

Oh no - Scotland sees best snow conditions for 10 years:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weat...icle3775931.ece

The dumb thing is that if we all suddenly went "green" it would be a seriously miserable fucking lifestyle. No TV, no computers, no cars, no motorbikes, no skiing, no jet holidays, no travel.

As far as I am concerned the evidence seems all over the place, and so the best thing is just to get on with life. Smarter move would be if people got the message of:

GO LESS POPULATION INCREASES rather than GO GREEN

No good me switching off my lightbulbs if on the other side of the world people are still multiplying like rabbits.

Again, you if had bothered to read the article in detail, you would have seen:

Nobody is seriously denying that man-made greenhouse gases can warm up the planet, the issue is whether other phenomena are masking the greenhouse effect.
this is very troubling because simpletons (politicians, some TT posters) will use their personal anecdotal experience ("Look, Spring is here and all is well") to make decisions which will catastrophic in the not-so-far future.

I would not ask you to switch off the lightbulbs, there is really nothing that you can do to change what is happening.
Yes, go out and enjoy what's left of your life.

Most intelligent post from you in a long time. You forgot to say, keep paying those carbon taxes though!!

It's a beautiful day here, today. Spring is finally here, and all is well! The doggies are frolicking in the yard, trying to help me by enthusiastically digging holes. Not always exactly where I want the holes to be, but I give them an "A" for effort!

Err...what was the question again?

32000 Scientists believe it is a scam.

North Pole May Be Ice Free for First Time This Summer (nationalgeographic.com)

Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
National Geographic News June 20, 2008 Arctic warming has become so dramatic that the North Pole may melt this summer, report scientists studying the effects of climate change in the field.

"We're actually projecting this year that the North Pole may be free of ice for the first time [in history]," David Barber, of the University of Manitoba, told National Geographic News aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen, a Canadian research icebreaker.
[...]

Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole (independent.co.uk) Polar scientists reveal dramatic new evidence of climate change

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.
[...]

Note the quote to ARCTIC warming, not Global warming, has been linked in recent days to these findings..

LINK

Listen, I'm not a scientist, so I leave the science up to those who are, and the vast majority of scientists (and it's obvious who is paying the few naysayers) say we're experiencing climate change. Case closed. I don't need an 'opinion'. I listen to those who know. F*ckwittage otherwise.

Heres the NORTH POLE WEBCAM

Surprisingly it doesn't look too ice free to me. I call bullshit!

A severe state of denial there Kat.

I raise you 32,000

32,000 Scientists believe GW is a scam

Then again you probably look at the North pole webcam and see something they don't right?

Look at the real science sites, and then think about who has what to gain by which stance. You're a corporate stooge.

The Webcam is hosted by noaa.gov , the article I posted was from Canada.com, are these now to be classed as "conspiraloon websites" ?

Global Warming Cooling, Climate change or whatever the new term is has been PROVEN beyond a doubt to be a hoax, the real idiots are the ones who stick to this spoon-fed bullshit about it being all our fault (which normally leads to a raise in carbon taxing). The scientific evidence of the last 10 years does not support GW. But hey, you carry on tree hugging, eating Tofu and riding your carbon neutral bike, you will make little difference to anyones standard of living other than your own.

Also, to be in denial, I'd have to be believing what I want to believe, which is certainly not the case. I'd love it all to be a big hoax, but it obviously isn't. It's big, and it's bad and we're going to have to do something about it and make some sacrifices. It looks like you're the one believing what he wants to believe.

This post is 267 posts long now and as far as I'm aware the only evidence that has been posted is that it is a hoax. Please feel free to direct me to a previous post in this thread which backs up GW with factual information, stats and the likes. I think you'll be surprised to find you can't, over the last 10 years there has been no Global Warming, nor has there been any Global Cooling, in fact mother nature has just got on with her job on a daily basis.

It's a bit cool here today. So when does this global warming stuff kick in? I want to get out my shorts and t-shirts.

George Carlin on Global Warming

conserve gas,fart in a jar.

If you make such a detached comment you did not care to carefully read the National Geographic's link nor even the abstract I presented.

The NG article is a bunch of crap, although if you read the article instead of just posting a link to it, you would realize that the author states that the "no ice on N. pole" thing doesn't really mean anything (in terms of Global warming); it is all purely symbolic.

The part that shows scaremongering cluelessness is where the author claims that this is the hottest the North Pole has EVER been. And of course conveniently forgetting the "Medieval Warm Period" lasting from 800-1300 AD, when the north pole was warm enough to grow tomatoes (though you would have had to take your own plant, pot, ship and fresh water) and when Greenland was colonized by the Vikings and was actually green.

Stupid comment and cheap rhetoric, you can do better.
Of course I read it. Did you without distorting glasess?

That's the wonderful thing about the interweb you can always find an organisation to reinforce your beliefs.

Holy inflatable kangaroos Batman!

Badbob made the most intelligient posting in the entire thread, albeit not his own words.

The amount of people believing Elvis is still alive is still higher than that

Isn't it funny how a growing number of people are waking up to this scam, in a very short time it will be seen for what it is.

Then GW believers can be categorised with Elvis believers.

To quote George Carlin,

"The planet is doing fine...it's the people who are fucked!",
"How can we attempt to save the earth when we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet, we can't even look out for one another!"

That's right. We shouldn't attempt to do anything about anything.
Nihilism is the way to go.

It cant hurt to think about "Adapting to Climate Change". The EU does so. German government is still working on their strategy. They will publish it later this year.

The EU greenpaper and its annex contain some interesting maps on the potential future of tourism, agriculture, flood threat, ...

Jesus people, WAKE UP and smell the coffee, we are a miniscule contributor to Global Warming,



this scam has been pulled twice already last century

1922 the cry was ARCTIC/GLOBAL WARMING from THE MONTHLY WEATHER REVIEW !



1975 NEWSWEEK REPORTED THE COOLING WORLD



FULL LOWDOWN HERE

or if the link is too conspiraloon for you, try Auntie Beeb

BBC Article

The whole global warming, or global cooling, thing is a created hoax by a bunch of quack scientists to get government funding for their jobs. Then the government wants to raise my taxes to pay for it. It is Junk Science.

Water vapour is not the dominant greenhouse gas

One of the std.septic arguments is "there is no point in worrying about human emissions of CO2, because water vapour is the dominant GHG". This argument is nonsense, but if you don't know the science thats no obvious. So...

Water vapour is a "reactive" GHG with a short atmospheric lifetime of about 1 week. If you pump out a whole load of extra water vapour it won't stay in the atmosphere; it would condense as rain/snow and we'd be back to where we started. If you sucked the atmosphere dry of moisture, more would evaporate from the oceans. The balance is dynamic of course: humidity of the air varies by place and time, but its a stable balance.

In contrast, CO2 has a long lifetime (actually calculating a single "lifetime" for it doesn't work; but a given CO2 pulse such as we're supplying now will hang around for.. ohh... a century or more). It doesn't rain out (amusing factoid: the surface temperature of the deep interior Antarctica in winter can be colder than the freezing point of CO2; but this doesn't lead to CO2 snow (sadly, it would be fun) because the freezing point is lower because of the lower pressure because its higher up). So if you put in extra CO2 the climate warms a bit; because of this move WV evaporates (it doesn't have to, but just about all models show that the relative humidity tends to be about constant; so if you heat the atmos that means that the absolute humidity will increase). This in turn warms the atmosphere warms up a bit more; so more water gets evaporates. This is a positive feedback but a limited one: the increments (if you think of it that way) get smaller not larger so there is no runaway GH effect.

So: adding CO2 to the atmosphere warms it a bit and ends up with more WV. Adding WV does nothing much and the atmos returns to equilibrium.

PHYSICSWORLD disagree with you

BBC Disagree with you

NOAA Disagree with you

Shit even NASA disagree with you

Water Vapour is the largest contributor to the effects of global warming.

Riding a feckin bike, seperating your cans from your plastic and sitting in the dark with an extra pullover on is not even going to make the slightest of differences.

If Water Vapour, as proven above, is a contributor then mankind contribute 0.28% of the greenhouse gasses, if WV is not to be taken in to consideration we're responsible for about 5%. Do you really think this crap is about saving the planet? It's a stealth tax, all those carbon tax dollars currently being collected for just about everything you do don't go towards making the environment better, they go to bolster pension funds, pay for illegal wars and paying a little interest on the National Debt to the FRS. They do not make the world better.

Wanna save the planet? Wake up and realise what a mug you are currently being taken for, dig a little deeper and you'll see what else you are being lied to about, get angry and rise up against the corporate fcuks that have taken over the whitehouse before they go global with their masterplan to enslave you and yours for the rest of your tree-hugging, tofu-eating life !

Thanks djgrazy for your earlier link to the BBC article (Climate change 'is the norm') I was quite surprised that the Beeb was actually carrying reasonable articles back in the day. Nowadays, anything critical of the "cult of the warming globe" is of course, much more likely to be censored as happened earlier this year.

Sinderbox your cluelessness is painful, find out more about AGW before you again copy-paste other's opinions under your own name.

Anyway to counter your earlier story of no-ice-at-the-pole-we-are-going-to-die, here is a little correction from the NYTimes after they published a similar story in 2000.


LINK

You either do not understand a shit, are lazy to read, are being intellectually dishonest, or all of them apply to you.
Your NASA link agrees with the article I pointed to.

You are being intellectually dishonest too.
I did not attribute those words to myself, IANACS neither you are.
I provided a link to them.

sorry I didn't realise you had linked it. In any case stuff that is copy-pasted should be within quote wraps, just to make it clear what someone else is saying and what you yourself think.

If you want to participate seriously in a discussion you should learn to read other's comments carefully first instead of coming up with gracious accusations or blame others for your own mistakes.

IANAL but read the TT rules, what you just did is a violation of copyright. There is a reason for the quote function and in this case it is quite clearly called for. There is no distinction in your post between what the dude says on the blog and what you say (if you did say something of your own), intellectually dishonest at best, deliberately misleading at worst.

Try contributing something of your own once in a while, otherwise google works just fine

good night

I thought this was a serious discussion.
If you want to keep probing your ignorance about copyright open another thread.

Only if water vapour and CO2 have the same absorption spectra, if they are different then CO2 has an additive effect. How big that effect is will depend on which parts of the infra red spectrum are most important to the cooling of the Earth.


So how do you know your not been manipulated by vested interests that just want us to use more, so we buy more, to make them richer?

quite simply, the results of the past 10 years show NO increase in the earths temperature in direct contradiction to what we were told. I've also lived through the last 10 years and can honestly say that summers are still warm and winters are still cold. The cluster of natural disasters we've had this decade are nothing to do with AGW, some are down to nature (Katrina), others are down to stupidity (New Orleans Levees).

I remember watching Panorama in the late 90s telling us that by 2012 some parts of Britain will be as hot as the Med and some parts of the Med would now resemble Britain, they even depicted Britain as a summer holiday destination (A-la-Benidorm).

The whole thing is a money maing scam, the Earth isn't getting warmer, it's also not getting cooler, even if it were, there's shit all we could do about it.

That summarizes all.
You have no clue even about the basics.

At this point you should already know that.
1) You cannot measure per year but instead big periods must be taken into account.
2) You cannot judge by your winters and summers but need to watch the whole thing globally.

If you cannot grasp those two simple facts much less I do expect you to understand the difference in behaviour between CO2 and Water Vapour.
You are being emotional instead of rational. There is no point in arguing with you.
"Wake up people and smell the coffee" your best argument ever.
Against that I have no rebuttal.

Maybe we should use satellite measurements over the last 30 years. Flat trend with a peak in 98.

• Sats are fairly global (some issues with pole coverage, same for land temp stations)
• Sats should not be affected by local effects (parking lots, humidity, changes in measurement device, etc)

I can't wait to see the numbers for June... I know it has been cold in Stuttgart, but maybe that is normal. And I thought we were supposed to have a hockey stick increase?

I still think the sun actually influences our weather. Amazing! If it calms down, we cool off. And if the sunspot cycle does not kick in, who knows what will happen...

28 degrees in London today, looks like Global Warming is kicking in after all.

28 degrees? In June! That is below freezing! Did it snow? Are people freezing in the streets? I hope this is not the start of a new ice age...

the Chanel 4 documentary in the UK, the "Great Global Warming Swindle" has now resulted in Chanel 4 being censured by the regular for misrepresenting the science and the scientists. Guess the swindle was the documentary.

Silly hippie, did you even read the article? It was a stalemate decision basically. If you had even read the subtitle, it would have been clear:

"Watchdog finds documentary was unfair to scientists but did not mislead viewers"

Basically, they did not let the scientists clarify their statements. The most telling part is here, methinks:


King once said something about the last time the CO2 ws this high, the Antarctic was the only inhabitable place. I know that is nuanced, but I don't see much distinction. I don't see how that is unfair. But the US has different standards (and free speech).

So basically, they never found fault with the facts in the presentation, just the way they the scientists were represented (the way I read your link)

The global warming scam is just another excuse for governments to tax people even more with a "good reason".