Getting busted by the U-Bahn ticket inspectors

So my monthly card expired a few days ago and I (admittedly foolishly) reasoned that, I lost 10 days of service during the strike (not to mention the cab I had to take one day, and other expenses as a direct result) and so I rationalized perhaps I might take a gamble and see if I could recoup some of that money by holding off a few days till my next monthly card purchase; my goal was to make it till Monday. Well, of course, I lost.

I claimed that I had forgotten my new card back at my apartment, and she explained that I could show it at a certain office and perhaps get it reduced from a 40 Euro fine to a 7 Euro fine.

So, my question is:

1. Can they tell what time the card was bought? Can I go out right now and buy a monthly card which would should that I did indeed have a card on this date, or would they see that I purchased it after I got caught?

2. Can I find someone else with a monthly card and show that? I don't believe they ever link the card to my name. At least I never remember showing any form of ID when I buy a new one.

3. Incidentally, I don't suppose they were offering any sort of refund or compensation for monthly tickets which covered the span of the strike, eh?

Take a look at your old card, and check whether it has the time (for 1.) or name (for 2.) on it?

If its a normal month ticket (out of the machine, no ID required) then they will be able to see the date you stamped it - you will still look like you were trying to get away with not paying.

If you know someone with a normal month ticket then you could ask to borrow that and see if the nice people you speak to will drop the fine.

As with anythig in germany, they will not respond well to you going in and confronting them. best to go in, be nice, lick some shoe etc.

You took a gamble, you lost, pay up.

I believe that reduction only works if you have an ticket that is assigned to you. One from a machine cannot be traced specifically to you

Personally i feel you were breaking the law, hence you should pay the full whack.

Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. Pay your fine, buy a new card, and do the right thing.

No, bollocks to humbly paying up. Give them the story, say you're sorry and usually pay your fare, and if it's your first offence they'll probably drop the fine anyway. Then once it's all paid for you can have a whine about the strike, but of course it won't help...

they wont drop the fine

I dont think the original poster was asking your opinion on whether they were breaking the law, should pay the fine or any moral feeling on this. Perhaps you should start your own thread on this, you arent helping get out of this predicament are you.

Sorry does not gel here with the BVG in Berlin. you get caught you pay. if you do not the police are called. same for tourists too.

Borrow someone else's monthly ticket. Go in and say it's yours. Pay 7 euros. Ignore moralizing on the Internet.

Get a grip my friend and pay your fine...its people like you who cause the hike in prices by cheating the system,what make you think you can get away with it.You broke the law plain and simple.

Irrelevant. What part of Moe's THREE questions DIDN'T you understand??? FFS. You're a modern day saint aren't you.

They screwed you out of 25% of your monthly pass, so the least you can do is try to screw them out of 25% of their fine. (Didn't use a calculator on that last one.)

And (if it’s the same as Frankfurt) that little paper thing you signed is a statement that you admit to committing fraud

You talking to me Rangers boy

I'm going to start calling you "Moral Champion Jim" from now on.

They only screwed him out of 25% of the monthy pass if bvg and deutsche bahn went on strike at the same time.

If both went on strike I am with you, try to get the fine down by any means possible.

S-bahns are run by DB.
Busses, trams and U-Bahn are BVG.

If they didnt then I am still with you and you should try to get the fine down if possible.

Although I know you broke the law I would be thinking of how I can get the fine down if I were in your shoes.

However you may have to face the fact that you will have to cough up the 40 notes and live with it.

There is a FOURTH question, but I guess you didn't catch that. But wait, the fourth question is actually the FIRST question because it's in the title. That question would be "Do I have options?". So yes, we did answer properly. FFS, even.

Since it is likely that BVG will go on strike again within the next month. This would not be my option of choice. You will just end up in the same quandry later on...

Unfortunately you dont really have many options unless you have a monthly pass with some form of personal identification attached to it (some kind of Azubi card for example).

I once bought a month pass and forgot it at home, that was so annoying!! because I had paid 67euro and on top of it had to pay 40euro more.

Just ignore all these "you broke the law blah blah blah" types.
Since you will be out some hard earned money the last thing you need are some random annoying people in a forum making some annoying comments about your situation. I feel for ya.

It has neither, and I bought it in person at the counter. I was just trying to think if I had to show some sort or identification at the time or give a name (I was blanking out trying to think about it). There is a UPC code on the back so perhaps some personal info was recorded, but now I'm remembering that I don't see how it would be possible.

As for all of your other wonderfully helpful comments, really, I was asking for some factual information from anyone who might happen to have any to share. Feel free to start your own thread if you want to debate the morality issue. I might even join in. But that's not what this thread is for. If it was, I might've said "hey guys, what do you think of the morality issue with my situation", because I tend to like being clear with my OPs.

yes--no oh and yes
no
no

hows that ?

Moe, not sure how long you have been around but have a read on some of the threads.

No topic every stays clear for long

If your ticket is one bought from the ticket office without the need for ID then in order to be valid you have to get it stamped.

If you buy one and get it stamped, it will show a date later than the bit of paper detailing the fine.

Taking this to the office and trying to use it get out of the fine will not only make you look really daft but will make them very unwilling to consider lowering the fine.

If you can bowwow one from someone, take that along, be nice, bow your head, lick their shoes and see how it goes.

You can only ask.

You have 3 possible outcomes, you pay 40 euro, the fine gets powered or you get real lucky and they drop the fine.

Take 40 euros with you just in case.

i woudnt recomend this really! could end up in a lot of sh*t

There must be someone here that has a card with the right dates to borrow you – why didn’t you try and make a run for it?

Better, assuming that it's factually correct of course, but better nonetheless. Thanks.


Thanks for the info.

Of course I meant borrow one from someone.

I am not sure if its possible to 'bowwow' a ticket

Just to be clear, as long as its a normal, none abbo (paid monthly) ticket that you just stamp in the little red machines you can pass this off as yours.

I used to lend mine to my girlfriend and as they have no names etc it shouldn't be a problem.

However, as the above applies they will know you could have jus borrowed one and may not drop the fine.

Did you provide your reasoning to the staff when they ticketed you? Will you provide it to the other staff when you appeal your fine?
I am so shocked that they would dare to fine you, those bad bad people!


Moe wants help in continuing to support his (admittedly foolish) reasoning. "Moral Champion Jim" is simply calling him on it.

Now you. You I shall name "Tl-Honest-coles".

I thought I was clear by the use of the word "rationalized" in the very same sentence that you refer to, that my "reasoning" was internal and not something I saw as a legal defense.


Thanks for settin' me straight!

Honestly, I don't understand why they don't just use turnstiles...
It saves money for everyone because the people who don't pay don't ride.
Yeah, he should try to get out of ticket if he's been paying before.

Oh, why don't they number the damned exits at the UBahn and SBahn stations here? Not doing that makes the neighborhood maps at the station worthless.

I'm hoping someone can answer this question. I live in London but last month while visiting Berlin my husband and I were caught on the U-bahn without tickets (tourist stupidity--the machine wouldn't take my 50 euro note or credit cards and were planning on buying tickets when we changed at Alexanderplatz). We've both received letters to pay the fines, but since we don't live in Germany, what exactly is the penalty for us if we don't pay? I'm concerned because they have our passport info. Any advice would be appreciated--it honestly was an innocent mistake.

If you try to re-enter the country you will be shot on the spot.

Just pay the bloody fine.

Just be fair and pay up, it helps keep the overall costs down.
But you could write a nice letter to the transport authorities saying how practical it would be for tourists if the ticket vending machines would accept credit cards. I gave my half-used strip ticket to two Brit tourists in Munich a few days ago, poor drunken sods were trying to buy tickets from the machine with a Brit fiver.

tell them to piss off as they are not the police then start rambling about how your grandad fought to free them from the nazis
then ask the ticket nazi what did his grandfather's do in the war it will piss them big big time but works for me

If you are not willing to co-operate with the ticket inspectors the have absolutly no problem calling the police.

I second what Sara and Keydeck said. Pay the fine.

I know at least one case in which the inspectors agreed to come home with the person who forgot their monthly ticket so he could show it to them and pay the lower fine. I know of another case in which the person busted gave a false name and address which were not questioned because the person was not German and not required to carry identification.

Anyone who thinks they can just walk into the BVG office with a borrowed monthly ticket and get the fine reduced is off their head. Do you think that they are that stupid, and have hot had to deal with that con many thousands of times before ? The only way you will get the fine reduced is if you can categorically show that you are the owner of the ticket - so it has to be a ticket registered to your name, and address - and rightly so.

I'm not sure why this topic is even continuing. As has been said many times before, if you want to use the public transport, pay up or put up if you're caught. The Berlin public transport system is excellent (when not on strike), and for 55 or so euros a month, you get excellent value - compare that with other major cities in the world.

Colin

@cm - At the moment the discussion seems to relate to the above incident and tourists being willing but not able to purchase a ticket, not to con-artists who try to pull a fast one with a borrowed monthly ticket.

I realise this, however there is a parallel discussion on the merits or otherwise of being honest with the system.

On the tourist part of the topic, I also think that as a tourist, you should get you ticket also, and if you've got a problem sort it out. It is a bit silly to expect to get a 50 euro note into a ticket machine reliably, and the idea of using a credit card in Germany for such a purchase is also a bit silly - its in the first 10 pages of any travel guide book on Germany. It's clear from signs, notices and tour guides that if you travel without a ticket and are caught you will be fined - how can you expect the inspector to believe every story of the machine not taking your money or eating your coins. Again remember these people are dealing with hundreds of thousads of people every day, and get every story in the book.

I think people should be responsible enough to be able to deal with it, and realise if you take the risk and get caught, then you've lost the gamble, and the inspector is only doing his job correctly in insisting you pay up. I would not expect to get away with it in another major city.

This very morning, my daughter had left her monthly U-Bahn ticket in a friends house, and I bought her tickets to get to school and back - it's not that difficult to deal with the system honestly and sensibly.

72 euros.

just adding 2 points: Berlin's system is one of the most expensive systems in the world - been there done that! And, signage, lettering, info etc. is utterly confusing for newcomers. If one thinks otherwise then one probably was born here and never been anywhere else in this world.

karl

When I first came to Munich I didn't understand which monthly pass to buy from the machine and just pressed random buttons (I could just about work out what the number of zones I needed was to get to work). Anyway, it suddenly dawned on me in the last week of the month that a 9uhr Karte was exactly NOT the right ticket to get to work and back, and that the "9" was a bit of a clue. Not sure why this didn't twig earlier, so anyway the very day after I got checked for the first and only time on the S-Bahn at 8:50am. I mention this because just like the original poster I had rationalised that I certainly didn't buy the wrong ticket on purpose, so I would just sort it for next month. Also, because I have now been travelling on the S-Bahn everyday to get to work and back for 6 months and that is the only time I ever got checked.

I didn't get lined up and shot by the way. I wickedly pretended to not understand any German and the nice man gave me an MVV tariff list and let me off

55 euros if you get a yearly subscription and pay monthly, which is more sensible if you live in Berlin long term - it's even cheaper if you pay the full year in one go.

Dude, you should totally get a job making party political broadcasts, you've got the patter down to a tee.

London is more expensive, and is extremly unreliable (I've commuted into London for 8 months just over a year ago, using the underground extensively, and so I know form first hand experience). I would say Paris and Berlin are comparible with prices, but it is a few years since I've been there, so I can't say for sure about the current situation there.

Even if the signage is not clear, you cannot expect to travel for free on a public transport system, and as a tourist coming to the city, I'd expect one of the things you do is work out how to get around the city. There are tourist special cards, and most of the ticket machines now have multi language screens, including English. And why should the ticket checkers be expected to believe every story they get. Sorry but I have no sympathy of people get on the trains without paying. The only case that I would have sympathy with is when someone forgets to validate a ticket - easy to do in Berlin, and although I don't know it, I'd expect the ticket checkers will in general come down on tourists with a ticket that has not been validated.

Besides the signing: What especially is that confusing? I find it much more confusing in many other cities to cope with them hundreds of zones (instead of the very clear AB-C here). You're right, Berlin is on the more expensive side (together with many other big cities in central/northern europe), but especially if you use it at night it is heaven compared with other cities. I also appreciate the barrier-free system here (even if it attracts some fare dodgers and is maybe a bit more risky for dumb tourists).

Btw: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/35746...a-Blair-dodger/

Paris, Barcelona, Rome - all of these are by far cheaper. I never had a problem finding my way around the metro systems in Paris, or Rome or Barcelona. Now go to any Metro stop in Berlin and just try to find a station post! At one station it's at the beginning, at another in the middle (!), then there are the ones where it's on the other end, and then there are those where there's none. Fun!
I have also hard time to follow the logic to buy a ticket from a machine at the gate which you then have to stick into some yellow thingy...took me a while and I don't think I'm totally stupid.

I'm not complaining but stating the obvious.

Thinking about it, what about buying a monthly ticket (the day I arrived in Berlin) at a kiosk down at the tracks just a day before the strike began? Somebody coulda kind of give me a hint what's coming...my accent is clearly audible, right?

I actually prefer the gate less entries here in Berlin, they're overkill in my eyes.

Besides that, hell, I'm all for 3 strikes and you're out! They catch you three times, you're in jail for the next 20 years ;-)