Feedback about the Integration School in Hamburg

I relocated to Germany 7 months ago, with excitement about a new chapter in my life. As you can imagine, I had a long list of to do's on my list. The first was to obviously learn German. After our family did extensive research, we were informed of our "entitlement" to participate in the integration courses, which were being offered at 1 euro. Well, I know a bargain when I see it, so the next step was just to locate a school that met my particular needs. As you can imagine, the list was very long. However, as the list was narrowed down, I selected AkademikerBund as my preferred choice. I chose this particular institution for three reasons: (1) Cordial and accommodating staff, (2) Location, and (3) Small classroom size. Based on these three prerequisites, I was sold.

In the 6 months I attended the institution, I found the staff to be friendly but lack in two areas that are critical to a successful program: Organization and Communication. I will provide you with two examples. On two different occasions, I, and others arrived to school, only to realize there was no school. The first explanation given was due to a staff member being sick. (Understandable), we all get sick. However, apparently the message did not reach the other staff member, so no school. The second was due to a specified holiday, not a public holiday that we were not informed of. Lastly on this example, the class was notified 2 days prior to the exam, that the final exam would take place on Friday and Saturday. Well, since the normal course week is Monday-Friday, it would only be fair to provide the class with advance notice, so everyone could make the necessary provisions.
I realize the integration system is fairly new, and like any new business. (AkademikerBund began in 2006), there will be learning curves. However, these two areas proved to be consistent and provide many challenges, which along with another major area, led to my decision not to register, for any additional courses being offered.

The number (1) and (2) reasons for AkademikerBund remained consistent for the entire 6 months. The small classroom size, however, did not meet the standards I was anticipating for the course. I believed the small class, would allow an individual to truly integrate into the country, applying practical day to day lessons, along with understanding of the German language, in such as the purpose of the course. For instance, if I was not "entitled" to this course, I would have taken German courses at another language institution, based on my learning needs, anyway. I am just a person that wants to continue to learn, in all aspects of my life. However, since this was provided by the Immigration offices, I was looking forward to a true integration experience, that would provide me a learning advantage, when I continued my studies after the integration courses.

I have copied some pertinent information directly from the BAMF website, which states the following:

Each integration course consists of a language course and an orientation course. It lasts for a total of 645 hours. It is possible to do the course on a full-time or a part-time basis.

The language course – modules one to six
The language course consists of a basic language course and a follow-on language course. It takes 600 hours to complete.

The main topics on the course are:

dealing with the authorities
shopping
public transport
finding accommodation
recreational activities
You will also learn to write letters and e-mails in German, to fill out forms, to make telephone calls and to apply for jobs.
At the end of the basic language course and the follow-on language course, you are expected to take intermediate tests. This will help you prepare for the final examination at the end of the integration course.

Of course, this is theory, but it seems logical that if this information is found by anyone conducting a small amount of research that institutions registered with the Immigration office would implement it in their curriculum and verify that the instructor is applying the principles, which leads me to the topic of the instructors.

I believe the instructors play a viable role in the process. The instructor I obtained was very intelligent and knowledgeable on every facet of learning German. He obtained great success in providing us with all the rules of grammar, repetition of writing exercises and challenging the students in the dative and genitive format. I have 4 notebooks filled with valuable information, which I will use as a resource in the future. He taught the class, as if we were in a university, wanting to be German teachers. I enjoy learning, and even being challenged. However, all the principles were taught, solely on this topic.
The integration concept was completely ignored.

I spoke with my instructor on numerous occasions, with suggestions only, as it was his class. I advised him where I was lacking and I am aware of two other students that requested the same. Unfortunately, he had his own learning agenda, which included the Orientation Course. On the first day, we were asked what we would like to get out of the course. Most people stated practical activities, which could prepare us in communication with companies, house permits, etc. He took our suggestions under advisement, and what we covered was 6 days on politics, and 4 days on the worst experience of Germany's time. By the way, there were only 2 questions on the Orientation Course, pertaining to this horrible time.
Familiarization on such topics is necessary, but a History lesson, as if one was to be naturalized on this information was not necessary.

So my question is, “How can they change this for others”? I recommend the Immigration Office and Integration institutions be required to provide the students with surveys and conduct class visits, to ensure the Integration course, is being taught in the manner, it was designed in. ( I have contacted the Immigration office) Accountability for the institutions and instructors is vital, for any change in the future. I also believe that each Instructor should have at the minimum an overview handout on, dealing with adults from different cultures, so instructors can better understand student’s cultural differences and maintain control of the classroom, for a positive learning environment for all.

There are so many choices to select from. The major players, such as Berlitz and Inlingua have been in the business, for a long time. Berlitz offers a German for work course, and Inlingua offers integration courses for all. Just remember, this is a money making business and the classrooms are filled to capacity.

One of my friends is attending Berlitz for the German to work course, which is complete immersion 8 hours a day, but they are in one of the worst rooms in Berlitz, by the way which I have visited. I did not think they had any bad locations. You also have smaller schools, such as AkademikerBund, which I would not give a "Don't Attend" rating, since it is truly a matter of preference. You also have Steinweg, which you can read about on another thread. I visited the school and the teacher is very nice. Colon is also another school which I have interacted with. So, one really has so many choices. Less is not always more, and more is not always less. I believe the key is to focus on your mission, the location, and be lead by your personal preferences.

Lastly, in my research, I found several threads about recommendations of schools, but no solid feedback on any experience after enrolled or completion of a school. So, I thought it was important to compile my information, so others can gain insight from real life experiences and consider all their options in selecting an integration course.

So, where am I today? I remain excited and optimistic about my continued education in Germany. I am currently enrolled in a conversational German class, and I am finalizing my research for the schools that will meet my current needs. I will provide feedback on my personal choice in the future. I also welcome your recommendations and hope others will provide the forum with their valuable experiences.

A voice in Hamburg

Recommended links:
http://www.integration-in-deutschland.de/c...html?__nnn=true

http://fhh.hamburg.de/stadt/Aktuell/behoer...erty=source.pdf

Hello there, voice

Thank you for starting this thread.

I can relate to your unpleasant experience as the same happened to me today!

There was no word about the class being cancelled to another date and time - I was only informed then and there when i arrived at the school.

Strange thing is, our class consists of 7 students only - cant they just pick up the phone to inform us beforehand? Does it takes so much to call 7 students?

Hello Asiana:

Absolutely, my pleasure. It was great having the platform to share my experience. I completely understand. Hopefully, you will not have the same experience in the future. Communication goes a long way. I hope the rest of your experience will be a positve one.

Hi Avoice,

Thank you for your well wishes. I wish the same for you!

I just hope the situation will improve, else, Im going to switch to another language school once my current module ends

Take care & Good luck!

who is eligible for these courses?

Cant help it but noticed that some people hv to fork out hundreds of euros for such courses whilst the non EU-ers pay like 1 Euro per hour for the same thing

*pls correct me if im wrong *

and does it really cost 1 euro?
I remember my first german teacher, a walking grammar book, but if you dont know the grammar it is hard to get accepted. Be as clever as you like but not knowing your der die das `s is certain failure, unless you can talk in an exotic German dialect
Robert

Hi Robert,

Yup, its 1 euro per hour for non-EU-ers like myself. (Up to total of 645 hours)

Im not sure of the rates for those from other EU countries. Read some thread in this forum that they paid like 1000+ euros for the same thing *ouch*

for that price one takes the rough with the smooth. The bbc do an acceptable course online for practice.

@ avoice: Thank you for the detailed overview of your experience at your school.

Here are my two cents on this topic:

1) Integration course is for those that are mandated by the immigration folks to take this course to take care of their daily business in German. If you do not receive any aid from the Government (like unemployment benefits) then you will have to pay 1 Euro per hour which equals 630 Euros in the end as you have to take a total 630 hours of language (600) and so called orientation (30). If you are unemployed then the Arbeitsamt will take care of the entire costs as the Integration course is a measure to make you more employable. The last group of people are foreigners that are trying to get naturalized but somehow are still not fluent in German.

What does this mean in reality at the schools? Well for starters you have people in a class room setting that are being forced to take the course as the immigration folks or the Arbeitsamt tells them to do it or else. Then you have students that want to learn the language and see it as a great bargain to get all the language courses mostly paid by the government instead of paying it all out of your own pocket. As the government of course will pay schools a set fee per student, for schools this means that this whole Integration course thing is a wonderful cash cow business. Hence some of the larger schools focus on having up to 20 -25 students per class room.

2) Normal language course: Then there are people that may not be "entitled" to get a Integration course but that want to learn the lanugage out of their own initiative. Here you have people that pay fully the costs out of their own pocket (which can lead to several houndreds of Euros to reach a somewhat proficiency level). Schools love those clients as they can charge them "real" market prices opposed to the fixed rate that the government pays per student at the Integration course. However there are also those students that have a so called "Bildungsgutschein" from the Arbeitsamt. This is a voucher which you can take to a language school to take an intensive course to make you more employable (without paying anything). Some students get this voucher because they want to learn the language so that they can function in Germany (hence self motivated) while others get forced by the Arbeitsamt to take a course so that they get off the welfare system.

What does this mean at the schools? It means that if you have a Bildungsgutschein that you find yourself in a classroom setting where you may be eager to learn while most of the participants are there as they are forced to take the course. In addition, schools again make this a cash cow business which is driven by numbers of participants.

All in all, if you pay out of your own pocket then you will most likely get better service from the schools. If you get "sponsored" by the government (Integration course or Bildungsgutschein) be prepared to find yourself being a second rate customer of the schools.

Hmmm...
Thank you Fidelis, for all the infos...

But i somehow dont get it as to why some '1st class' payers are getting the 'bad service' too ... u know what i mean...

I dunno if someone else get the same help from the Govt..

But I was informed that upon passing the german language course, the Govt would actually reimburse 50% cash back to the students...

Oh well, '1st class' payers are getting the 'bad service' too. Eg, all '1st class' & '2nd class' payers / students are grouped together in the same batch, only to be dissapointed with 'surprises' like a no-show by the teachers and what not...

@asiana: What I meant was that the folks that pay out of their own pocket tend to get better service as they will be in small(er) classes. The mentality is: A paying customer tends to be more demanding of what he gets back for his hard earned money. Those folks that get the courses paid by the government(integration or Bildungsschein) get considered as second class customers as they dont pay for it nor do some of them want to actually be in the course.

It is correct that if you pass the integration course withina certain time fram that you can apply for a 50% reimbursement. However there is not guarantee for getting the money...it depends on if by the time you apply for the reimbursement the budget is still available.

@fidelis : let me make myself clear - what im saying is that some of my classmates are paying in full (without any support or concession from the govt) and yet being treated like '2nd class'. Maybe it was just a one-off thingy, and we are letting it go. But if this continues, it speaks volume about how these courses are being conducted.

The 50% reimbursement is a guarantee as long as one passes its course within a 2 year period.

Sadly, I noticed those people who are getting this support dont treat their course seriously

Oh I see what you meant. Wow, that is even worse then I thought.

Regarding the payback I found this on the website of the governing body BAMF:

Wenn Sie den Abschlusstest am Ende des Integrationskurses innerhalb von zwei Jahren nach Ausstellung der Teilnahmeberechtigung bestehen, können Sie die Hälfte Ihres Kostenbeitrages zurück bekommen.

This means that you MAY get half of the fee back that one has paid...It would have been phrased differently if they would wanted to "entitle" you ;-)

@fidelis : fyi, our class consists of 7 students which comprises of full paying & Govt-supported students. As per robert's advice, yes, i fully agree, if we are paying at such a dirt cheap rates, we ought to accept the good with the bad.

I just somehow felt pittance for those full paying students who got the slip-slop treatment.

Nothing personal against you

Take care/cheers.

Oh another thing - on top of the 50% reimbursement, i was told that there will also be some transport reimbursement (not much, just about 40 euros i think)

fidelis wrote: ... This means that you MAY get half of the fee back that one has paid...It would have been phrased differently if they would wanted to "entitle" you ...

This entitlement is guaranteed and handed out to those eligible for such support. Only catch is to pass the exam within the 2 yr period and you get 50% back (about 322,50 Euro + transport money).

Insight, feedback, experiences...

I began my German studies at Colón taking intensive courses with a great teacher named Steffi. I paid out of pocket. There were about six of us. Many students would come and go. These first three months of learning were absolutely fundamental to reach a “basic understanding” level. I enjoyed the course and found it beneficial.

About a year later, after attempting to work, I discover the Integration Course and sign up again with Colón. I entered an Integration Course that was about half finished. To my surprise, Steffi was my teacher. “YES!” This class was a stuffed pig of people from all over the world at completely different learning stages. It was a trial of patience. If I could have afforded to pay 400€ per month to learn German, then I would have.

Problems: Too many students in one room, students not accurately grouped according to language proficiency, teachers overwhelmed by class size and government course restrictions, not enough time to cover all required material.

To consider: The course instructors are often also forced to teach these classes and they don’t like it any more than the students do. BAMF is sending new information to the schools on a regular basis which makes it difficult for them to keep up. Yes, the large schools do overflow the classes to make more money (It is a business).

One final thought…I like to think of the Integration Course as a gift. It’s like an ugly sweater that your grandmother gave you for Christmas. It doesn’t fit perfectly, it could be a bit more up-to-date, but it was basically for free. It gets the job done and keeps you warm.

Hello Meg,

Thank you! It is so great, to gain perspective from another person's experience. Your analogy in your final thought, was fantastic and right on point. Thank you again for providing feedback and insights from your experience. I wish you continued success.