New tram line in Cosimapark/Englschalking - Munich

The MVG has recalled a streetcar project (German link) from obscurity and now plans to run a streetcar line from Effnerplatz via Cosimastrasse to St. Emmeram in Oberföhring, fondly known as the “Cosima-Express”. The plans for this project date back as far as the 1960s when the area around Arabellapark and Cosimabad was first developed, a wide grass divider in Cosimastrasse was executed to accommodate the tracks at some future stage.

Trial drillings have commenced, the MVG will hand in the construction application later this year and is optimistic regarding a quick approval procedure as this area has long been a subject of the city’s public transport planning. Construction is scheduled to begin in spring 2010 with the first streetcars expected to run by summer 2011. There will be nine stops servicing an estimated 11,000 passengers per day – the present residents as well as new ones moving in to new residential developments along the route.

The tracks are to run on grass strips; any trees cut down for the construction measures will be replaced once the tracks are laid. The overhead electric lines are a new and “more elegant” design than the current standard, according to MVG head designer Gunnar Heipp. Plans for the extension of U-Bahn line 4 to Englschalking will not be influenced by the new streetcar line as the U-Bahn will run well east of the Cosima-Express.
further source: Süddeutsche Zeitung, no.75, Monday 31 March 2008

I wonder if this decision was in any way influenced by the TR being scrapped. I hope they go ahead with the extension of the U4 to the S8 as soon as possible (and best of all if they go to Johanneskirchen and not Englchalking with a stop somewhere near Pioneerschule )

This is fantastic news for me!

Sounds good to me. I like the picture in the article that Sarabyrd links to ("streetcar project"), showing the tram swishing along past, or rather through, the planned "Mae West" sculpture at Effnerplatz. Looking forward to seeing it in reality.

bloody waste of money, though, that sculpture. they'd be better off improving infrastructure than wasting it on such stuff.

Will any of this line actually be in Johanneskirchen? I thought Johanneskirchen was North and East of Cosimastraße...

no. none of the new tram line will be Johanneskirchen. I was talking about the U4 extension when i mentioned Johanneskirchen.

The border between Oberföhring and Johanneskirchen cuts across Johanneskirchnerstrasse just past the sports fields, so the closest stop would Regina-Ullman-Strasse but that is about 500m away from the border to JK.

By gosh, you're right! I thought that Johanneskirchen extended west to Effnerstrasse. Next beer is on me.

Woohoo!

since we are in pedant mode (which i love!) unless I am mistaken the tram also doesn't go to Englschalking. The closest stop would be Cosimapark but this is still (just) outside Englschalking. iirc correctly the border to Englschalking starts a couple of hundred metres up the Engschalkingerstrasse past the cross-roads with Cosimastrasse

The map said Englschalking with subdivisions Cosimapark and Fideliopark.

You and me both but alas they've been talking about that on and off since I've been here (16yrs) and still no word of it happening Would make life much easier if one could get from Arabellapark to Engelschalking with the U-Bahn...currently there is no public transport running there! So near, yet so far....

well, currently the bus 189 goes from Arabellapark to Englschalking S-bahn and the 188 goes via Herkomerplatz to Daglfing S-bahn.

It sucks for us since they changed the bus routes, we now have to change buses to get to either Johanneskirchen or Englschalking S-bahn. really annoying. Which is why i would like the alternative proposed route for the U4 extension to Johanneskirchen instead of Englschalking. But that is just pie in the sky dreaming from me.

which map?

http://www.muenchen.de/home/82221/stadtplan.html
Do a search for your address and you will see the two names on either side of Cosimastrasse.

I can't access that map from work.

According to the timetable for the bus 189 it only goes to Daglfing S-Bahn aswell (via Engelschalkingerstr.) ...I've never been aware of any buses stopping directly at Engelschalking S-Bahn station.

Is this an April Fool ?

no bus goes to Englschalking Sbahn station,

the 188 Bus goes up Denningerstr, becomes Daglifingerstr from Herkommerpl- not really hitting Arabellapark
the 189 goes from Arabellapark to Messestadt Reim, passing Daglfing Sbahn, but in MVV logic, as the bus stops for the Train barriers to drop, you watch the Sbahn take off without you on it, if the bus was 2 minutes earlier, you would not have to sit 19min on the platform waiting for the next one.
the 185 bus goes Arabellapark, Englschalkingerstr, Freischutzstr to Johanniskirchen (again not in good timing with the Sbahn- you wait 15 min here for a train), but you have to walk up the hill, then down the stairs at the sbahnstation and then up the stairs again at the station -there is no elevator.

I usually take whatever bus comes along, get off on the corner of Englschalkinger and Freisschutz/Ostpreussenstr and walk the 7 minutes to the Sbahn. There are no stairs to take at the Englschalkinger Sbahn station.

Did you click on the link?

Seems the council are going for it!
And with a track under the thingybob at Effnerplatz.

They are CLAIMING it won't necessarily prevent a connection of the U4 to the S8.

<links left to peeps that have the time innit>
Topics merged by admin

Seems slightly pointless to me.

There's already a good bus-route 59 going from Arabellapark U-Bahn to Fritz-Meyer Weg.

that runs only every 20 minutes after 20:00.

The bus is already jam packed and with the growing number of people moving to that area, it's just not enough.

that bus route is one of the most annoying and stupidist routes in Munich. Whoever planned it deserves to be shot. Firstly, the route is only a couple of kilometers long, meaning anyone that actually wants to go anywhere has to change routes at least once. Secondly the route terminates in but-fuck-nowhere instead of the logical conclusion of either Johanneskirchen S-bahn or Studentenstadt U-bahn. Anyone going north on the 59 has to change to the 50 to get to either of these stations. Anyone going south on the 59 has to change onto either another bus (e.g. to get to Schwabing) or a U-bahn. The 59 terminates at Arabellapark, so anyone wanting to use the tram 17 or 18 needs to walk between Arabellapark and Effnerplatz or take yet another bus!

At least with the tram extension, you have a possibility to get into town without changing two or three times.

Personally, I think they are making a mistake by terminating the tram at St-Emmeram. I think it should turn right up Johanneskirchnerstrasse and terminate in the vicinity of the S-bahn station (although that might be logistically impossible due to lack of turning space).

I used to take the 59 whenever I got the UBahn to Arabellapark because Fritz-Meyer-Weg was near my house in Johanneskirchen.. there was a 2nd bus line too doing that route, but can't remember the number. 153? Though the numbers all changed last year anyway..

pre number changes the bus was the 89 (I think!) and went from Arabellapark to Studentenstadt via Fritz-Meyer-Weg (although it did terminate there off-peak).

Yes, the 59 serves its purpose of carrying people to the U4 but for anything else it is shit. The tram extension will be better than the bus because of the ability to get into town and possibly Schwabing (if they ever allow the extension through the English gardens) without connecting. It will also have a better takt. On the downside, it doesn't solve the problem of getting to the S-bahn without changing buses.

Another nice thing about tram lines is that once they're in place, they can't keep messing around changing the route like they do with the buses.

You are new in Munich?

They CLAIM (but I am not convinced) that the Cosima Tram won't mean the end of the U4 extension which is supposed to go to Johanneskirchen. Someday. Maybe.
OG's suggestion to route the tram then east to meet the S8 isn't bad, but WOULD mean the end of any U4 extension.

front page of the Bogenhauser Anzeiger today had an article about a plan now to build a tunnel from Daglfing Sbahn to Johanniskirchen Sbahn. Heck if they are going to do that, they might as well extend the U4 Arabella park to either Johanniskirchen or Englschalking Sbahn station. Apparently people complain about the train barriers at Englschalking and Daglfing stations that hold up traffic, as these area are growing with lots of new housing.
And seems another reason for that is the possible bid in Bavaria for the 2018 Olympics (guess that is the winter Olympic bid).

Yeah Carm, check the SZ Munich website from the day after the Stoibers mausoleum got killed off.

Tunelling there has a number of advantages. Could increase S8 frequency, including express services, create free land of which (top of my head) another 10 000 (?) people could be housed. Eliminate level crossings in that area of NE Munich and reudce noise pollution from freight trains. As it would also serve international freight trains, lovely EU money would also flow, which was not the case for TransRapid. A tunnel is basicly the ONLY way of increasing S8 capacity from its current levels.

Ude is pushing the city to work on a plan ASAP.

The tunnel could also help with the buses to Daglfing as one of the reasons given for them only having a 20 minute 'Takt' is the fact that the level crossing is down so much.

Just got a flyer in the letter-box about the latest news on the St. Emmeram Tram project.

me too.

The tram extension to St. Emmeram has been in the planning for more than 15 years. The city made a first humble attempt to build it around 1995 but then focused on more central projects like the tram lines through Arnulfstraße and the "Osttangente" (lines 15/25 through Haidhausen).
Also, one fact that is never mentioned in the new plans: there already was a tram line to Cosimapark until 1980, when construction for the U4 at Arabellapark started and resulted in a "temporary" cut-back of the tram to Effnerplatz. Anybody here ever noticed the short section of old tram tracks in the middle of Englschalkinger Str at the Arabellapark bus hub?


The new tram line - as any other tram line with exception of the 20/21 - will also operate a 20-minute interval starting at 8pm. Building the tram is mostly for expanding rush hour and midday capacity.


Sorry to say, but actually the tram will have a noticeably worse Takt than the 59 bus, resulting in longer waiting times. The 59 operates every 5 minutes schoolday mornings and every 6 to 7 minutes schoolday afternoons. Tram will have a 10-minute interval at all times (except after 8pm when it switches to 20 minutes). This is due to the much higher capacity of a tram compared to an articulated bus. In the end, building this tram line is all about replacing 5 buses with 2 trams, and thus 5 bus drivers with 2 tram drivers, saving 60% of personnel costs.


Munich's tram network hasn't been changed at all for almost 10 years. So, they really aren't messin' around with the tram routes too much The tram extension does matter of factly not mean the end of the U4 extension, but it means if the U4 will be extended, it will 100% go to Englschalking because building it to Johanneskirchen would be a parallel service to the new tram. Anyway, the extension to Englschalking would be better because it would be much shorter (thus cheaper and more likely to be built) than bringing U4 service to Johanneskirchen. Also they could cut down bus service along Englschalkinger Str, saving lots of personnel and bus fleet.

no, the bus runs every 10 min all day til 8pm when it goes to 20mins. The 5min bus routes got lost about 2 years ago, when they revamped all the bus routes, and Cosimapark really got the short end of the stick.

Every 10 minutes during school holidays and on weekends. Schoolday peak periods, the bus operates every 5 (mornings) respectively 6 to 7 (afternoon) minutes, as the current schedule shows us

I take that bus often during peak periods, and have never seen it run 6min.

I can only tell you what the schedule says the same with tram line 19, schedule says every 10 minutes but it's more a 20-minute-service with 2 trams following close behind

sorry, double post

has there been any indication yet which line will run to St.Emmeran? The 17, 18 or both?

Yes, according to this MVG information it's going to be the 17:


"According to the current stage of planning, the newly-built line to St. Emmeram is going to be served by tram line 17, which currently - as line 18 - ends at Effnerplatz".

You can also obtain a flyer in the MVG information center (Marienplatz mezzanine) which features way more information on the new tram line than the MVG website. It also includes a map of the future rail network in the Arabellapark area, showing both the new tram line to St. Emmeram and the extended U4 to Englschalking. Which, by the way, would not get a stop at Cosimapark anymore.

Not to go to off topic, I saw something in the papers last week abut extending the U6 from Frotmanning to the Airport.

That's an ongoing one, pushed by Garching and the Uni.
Though the current idea is to extend the U6 overground to Neufahrn.