Zimbabwe going to pot under Mugabe

@adrian_t: Do you think Zuma is doing this just to piss Mbeki off or does he really mean it? Would SA policy on Zim actually improve with Zuma?

I trust that he really means it. I don't think there is any point in pissing Mbeki off since he's on his way out anyway. His wording was also fairly careful - he acknowledged that Mbeki still has a role to play as official SADC mediator, but suggested that the situation required additional help and additional leadership. Very tactful.

As for improvement of Zim policy under Zuma: it couldn't get much worse. And if Zuma's statements now are a sign of things to come, then I'm optimistic. But hopefully Zim will be without Mugabe before Zuma becomes president.

I was going to ask your opinion, Makkadman, but I see you're Kurdish now - no longer from the relevant region.

think I agree wth adrian. Zuma is very much to the left of Mbeki and those backing him (communists and assorted others) have been trenchant critics of Mugabe. Zuma is also a Zulu and as I understand it there is no cultural bond between Zulu and Shona (Mugabe's tribe) who were regiolnal rivals before the arrival or Europeans.

Good point, BtC. It was a transport workers union that initially blocked the arms shipment - trade unions there tend to support Zuma.

Also, Mbeki and Mugabe consider themselves to be intellectuals (frighteningly enough) whereas Zuma is without even basic school education. I just don't think that Zuma and Mugabe would mix well.

Actually, I usually find Prussians better informed on Southern Africa.

Full story HERE

Well colour me surprised. I think it is a f**king travesty what is happening in Zimbabwe. Just what does Mugabe have on Mbeki?? The "developed" nations should hang there heads in shame as they sit on the sidelines talking about "quiet diplomacy" and making the odd "isn't he a naughty boy" remark in the media, all the time knowing the people of Zimbabwe are being tortured and murder.

It makes me feel ashamed, angry and helpless.

PS: it does however appear that the Chinese ship carrying arms is being recalled. A small and no doubt short-lived victory.

I'm just waiting for BTC to grow up a bit.

It seems to be looking good for the MDC according to the BBC after the recount!
But is it normal for Spiegel Online to ignore this news? Is it not interesting for them?

Latest from BBC

So the farce continues.

How will a power sharing system work when one of the sides has spent the last decade beating seven shades of shit out of anybody who disagrees with it?

ZANU-PF claims to have the official election results.

From CNN:


I think the best option for the MDC would be to contest the run-off, if it is held. If Mugabe failed to sufficiently rig the original vote, chances are he'll fail again.

And now the BBC reporting the figures match what the ZANU-PF were saying.

This one's going to run and run.

Arms arrive in Zimbabwe...

Hope this is not true, but it does seem that the arms eventually got into Zim

Arms into Zimbabwe

Sorry, slight correction. The Matabele and Shona are regional rivals, the Matabele stronghold being Bulawayo. The Matabele were sorted out by Mugabe and his thugs in the 80´s by the so-called 5th Brigade. The Matabele are related to the Zulu in that one of Shaka´s rebels, Mzilikazi rebelled against him, but was defeated and fled to the Transvaal, today´s Mpumalanga province. There they are known as the Ndebele, that is, some still remain. They were dominant there until the Voortrekkers arrived and drove them north of the Limpopo, that is, into Zimbabwe.

Mbeki is a member of the Xhosa tribe who are related to the Zulu, both form part of the southern Nguni group. Xhosa, Zulu and Ndebele are mutually understandable. Matabele is not so there are really no bonds whatsoever.

Ok, history lesson over.

All this talk of snipers and assassination attempts.

There seems little hope of a peaceful end to this.

This probably won't have any effect on Zimbabwe, but you've got to feel sorry for all the civilians that have escaped from Mugabe's goons only to endure violence like this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7407914.stm

Mugabe will just be replaced by another despot. In 20 years´time everyone will probably be saying the same thing about Tsvangirai. Europeans need to stop feeling sorry for the Africans and let them sort out their own problems. Everytime you donate money to some poor kids in Africa, it keeps the prick who´s the cause of everything longer in power.

What an positive and forward thinking post.

Have you seen anything different in Africa? There were quite a few positive-thinking people in Zim in 1980. There not many left anymore.

Perhaps they would return in the right conditions.

If true this is a sad story.

Death of an activist

Democracy, but not as we know it, it would seem.

Let's just hope his intimidation tactics backfire.

And so it goes on...

Are the military running Mugabe's campaign

So those terrorists at the BBC are at it again with their negative propaganda. It's all a western plot you know...

Apparently the MDC have withdrawn from the election, the police have raided their offices, and Morgan Tsvangirai is hiding in the Dutch embassy.

Can't see anything good happening there until the final revolution, which I guess will come when the government runs out of money and food for the army.

Mbeki is still pursuing diplomacy. Is he delusional, or wants Mugabe to stay in power?

This Guy Mugabe is going to get it ... and its just a question of time before he does !!! we can wishy washy our words here...
But the fact is the guy is just f----g ill in the head and has let his hatred of the west ( whites) blur all other goals... that is and seems his only motivation... if there was ever a just cause for going to war then this is probably it... !!!
Out of pure humanitarian needs the west should figure out a way of getting rid of this power hungry insensitive bastard once and for all !!!

I with you, but I don't think NObama got the balls to go to war with Mugabe. He might have a nice talk with him though. Unless maybe you can prove a link between Mugabe and 9/11 or that he's building WMD's, then NObama might have a go.

Most people dont understand the gravity of suffering that he has put his own people under... rapes killing oppression intimidation.. starvation stress stress stress... just a continous barrage of negative living.. with nothing positive done what so ever ...the guys a CUNT hes got to go...people should be figuring out how to get rid of the CUNT.. and thats it...attack attack attack.. the guy does not deserve anything else .. give the fucker an ultimatum.. or face the consequences

Look, why don't these people in Zimbabwe just say enough is enough, get some friggin' guns and take the asshole out themselves? Why does the "West" have to come in there and do everything? Have all of the people fled to Holland already or taken refuge in their embassy there? Where are all of the African Nations?

Wasn't Zimbabwe a British colony? Let the British handle this.

I think if they kicked the Brits out of Zimbabwe, they can handle a little punk like Mugabe themselves.

sounds good to me BadBob

what tripe

I daresay that an externally arranged regime change in Zimbabwe will have a much greater chance of success than the ones attempted in the middle east...

Libs, war, and oil...what a combination. Get over it. I tell you what. Bier is up to 8 euros a liter at Oktoberfest! 8 euros/liter! Where is the outrage? Huh? How can you justify that? Is there a bier cartel or something controlling prices? Some kind of Hops shortage? Wheat shortage? Nothing of the kind!

your all obviously not really concerned with the plight of the zimbawian people.. with your little quips and quotes...lets us get to the point the guys a cunt. a cunt to his own people... ´Zimbabwe was doing much better when the whites were running things.. thats a fact!!! this aint about race this is a about a ruthless Cunt abusing his power.. forget what the brits and the yanks do... RObert Mugabe could not organize a "piss up in a brewery" excuse my french but ime just amazed that the free modern world has not done more to end the plight of the Zimbawean people...and free its self of a most unworthy president ( primeminister )

Eddie, I agree. Mugabe is worthless. A piece of shit. But so are a lot of other African leaders and countries. My only question is, "When will the African people stand up for themselves?" I'll be glad to help. But if they don't care enough to fight for their own freedom, then, I'll go back to complaining about beer prices.

its ok bob ... i am a direct person and like to get to the point when the situation calls for it...all i can say is the guy is a CUNT he has to go... nothing else i can do except open peoples eyes...

Eddie, I'm with ya! I hate bullies and tin pan dictators who push people around. Always have. But talk is cheap. Especially if you are the guy or woman being pushed. Time to push back. Are the people of Zimbabwe really going to let this guy steal the election? Are they going to let themselves be intimidated? If they are, then it is their own fault. Look at the downfall of the Soviet Block. Not a shot fired. Look at the revolution in the Ukraine. Enough is enough. But hey, if some shots have to be fired then so be it.

So does that mean you think the Iraqi's should have been left to their own devices with Saddam Hussein?

Not with WMD's involved. That's when the Big Boys (USA) steps in!

What WMD's?

Duh? These WMD's.

That was 1988, you idiot - when Saddam was still being supported by the US. Who IIRC blocked a UN resolution to condemn or investigate, and blamed it on Iran, despite knowing otherwise.

Hops shortage actually, plus some other factors..

They don't get involved cos there's no oil, innit!

GRR! The people have suffered for so long and nobody does any but talk about the situation!!
Had there been oil, Bush would have invaded by now!

How many more people have to die before something is done???!?!? Makes my blood boil!

Knighthood stripped

BBC article

The humiliation of this will surely mean he can't continue and will stand down in the next few hours?

er, I think he will wear that with a badge of pride actually.

We could all hope so but unfortunately RM is showing all the signs of a meglamaniac totally out of control.

His downfall will come and I predict it will be by pressure from his African neighbours.

Enough is enough.

Unfortunately, I think your probably right. Nonetheless, I still think it was the correct decision.

It truly means nothing. The most likely thing is he will use it as more propaganda to show how the west are against him and it's all an imperial plot.

Now these cruise missile things , that might wake him up a little.

I think Paddy Ashdown's views on the situation in Zimbabwe are spot on military intervention could be justified. There is a real possibility of mass slaughter happening on the scale of Rwanda, and western powers could put an end to it in matter of days with the right amount of troops on the ground.

So when push comes to shove politics intervenes again. Basically this monster will be allowed to continue as the world is too self consumed to care. Doesn't make you feel great being a human being. We're pretty horrible creatures.

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