Negotiating the salary for a job offer at EADS

Hello,

I got a job offer in Aerospace Industry at Eurocopter as a Design Engineer. I have close to 8 years of experience at Boeing in US. 5 years as a Design Engineer and 3 years as Manufacturing analyst. EC gave me an offer for 48,000Euro/year. I have originally asked for 60000euro/year as my salary expectation at initial phone interview. I called them but couldn't get a hold of HR manager to negotiate the salary. Is it acceptable to ask for 60000 euro/year or should I lower my expectation. I speak German and on the contract doesn't say anything about 13 month pay or Christmas, vacation or bonuses? Can somebody give me an advice. They also promised to pay my moving expenses. I will PM some of you that seem to work for EC & EADS. I'll try calling EC HR manager tomorrow.

As someone who has dealt with EADS before ( in the job sense), I think you should ask for 60K...also try bonuses, 13th month sal..worst case try making them to put in a clause to make your sal 60K after 6 months ( based on your performance or otherwise)

If I ask for 60k per year does that mean that the 13 month is included or is 13 month and christmas pay something mandatory at such a huge company as EADS?
I was may be thinking to lower my expectation little bit and ask for 55k.
Thanks for advice.

how do feel about producing a product that is used to kill human beings.

whats that worth to you?

Berny
are u actually lucky enough to do a job that doesn't affect other human beings?

Generally they do a 13 month pay i.e., if you ask for 60K, they are gonna split it up across 13 months ( not sure about Christmas pay and stuff)...atleast that's what they offered me...so I think u can still ask for 60K...worst case they try to come back to you with their norms...then you can probably ask for some other perks and settle for a lesser amount...

That figure sounds low, frighteningly low IMHO. Granted I've never worked for EC, but for a person with such experience it sounds like they are lowballing you. Maybe I'm missing something, do people in EC pay income tax? or are they like the EPO people too?

Are you getting European Commision confused with Eurocopter?

If you want 60k, ask for 75k.

When they brow beat you down to 55 or 60, ask for a company car.

It is not certain that the USD will stay in the toilet like it is now and you still have to live over here anyway.

GOOD LUCK!!

ff

I tried calling HR Manager but his OA told me that he's out till Wends. 26th of March. I'll call him then.
In the contract it says a salary of 4k euro pro month, can I assume that is 52k a year including the 13month salary, assuming that Eurocopter pays 13 month like some of you acknowledged that.
If I ask for 60k euro, is there a change that they could reject me as a candidate for position for asking much more then what they are offering? I mean I would settle for 55k but I want to try to get as much as possible.

"Berny says: how do feel about producing a product that is used to kill human beings. whats that worth to you?"

Berny why do you think Eurocopter = Killing Machine Only company? That is really a sarcastic comment. Do some research before posting such a comment. Eurocopter is world largest helicopter supplier, they build Civil, Parapublic and Military helicopters.

My offer is for Eurocopter Design Center to work on Airbus components at Eurocopter design center in Donauwoerth.

Since you have good enough experience, you can definitely ask for 60k. If they aint ready for that, come down to 55K. Thats more than reasonable for your experience (although I dont exactly know your skills and the field that you work). Also, just tread carefully if you are serious about this position and want to work in Germany.

BTW, If everthing's clear, 'Welcome To Donäu-Wörth'. If you travel a couple of kms, you will be inside a large meteor crater.

Guys/Gels, thanks for you info.

I'm woundering if you know or have a salary table for EADS or EC or Airbus. I know that these huge companies must have some type of salary ranges. I know here in Boeing we have such a system. I would like to know based on my 8 years experience in aerospace industry in what salary min-max am I looking at for design engineer (electrical installation/systems)?

Thanks.

Referring to Nördlinger Ries. If you are into flying yourself you will be in one of Germany's prime gliding areas.

Joe have you worked out what you will earn NET? I don't know if you know but taxes are around 45-50% of your income. Can you live on €2k/month NET?

Again for your qualifications and experience it seems low. Are they paying for relocation or other benefits?

sorry , EC should have been EADS earlier .

It you travel a bit more, you will be at Einstein's place of birth. (Ulm)

It you travel a bit more, you will be at Einstein's place of birth. (Ulm)

EDIT: But dont be so excited about that. There's nothing special at Dönau-Wörth.

I was already in Dönauwörth for an interview like 2 weeks ago. Yeah, it's really a small city with like 20k people. My plan is to live in Augsburg and take a train to work. I talk to some people that work there and they are doing that. Supposed to be only 20-30min Augsburg - Dönauwörth with train. 30min with car.

I'm married and we have one child, plan no to pay church tax + 150eu kindergeld, am I looking at 30% taxes to be taken away from my brutto.

Since I'm married, my wife doesn't work at least for now and we have one child, what tax class do I belong? Tax class III?
thanks

probably best to take 3.1- married with 1 child. If ya Mrs takes a job at some stage, then expect her to get hammered with 5.0

Some people are talking bollocks on here, the salary offered is about normal for an engineer, the clever bit is to convince them that you are a senior engineer.

I'd agree with bluedave. For a permie position as a designer, I'd expect that number to fall within the normal range.

That offer seems rather low considering you have 8 years of experience (that seems to be the range I would expect for a junior/new engineer). If you have a masters degree - then I would think it would be really low..

Also would wonder if that contains the 13th check (urlaubgeld) & if that would be prorated your first year (since you will start mid way through the year..)

Remember - the job of HR is to be helpful to the company - not to you

Good luck ! (Also - would you job be dependant on getting the tanker contract?)

13th check is not urlaubsgeld and is not common practice in the Aerospace industry either btw.

Well - that's what my paycheck said .. Don't know what other companies call it.. Like all things - it would depend on the individual company...

within Eads you usually get paid 13,5 months. The addional 1,5 month is distributed within the salary for June and the one for November. For other contracts you are paid over 12 months but get a kind of bonus according to your performance, somewhere during the year.
If they hire you, they will pay your moving expenses as well as hotel and associated cost until you find a flat with the help of a relocation agency... for a reasonable time.

Hey Joe,

Will you be working on 350 doors?

aeroerol,

I’m not sure if I will be working on A350 doors. I know that I'll be working on the doors assembly but I'm not sure what airbus program, talking to them on the interview they seem to support all airbus products with doors. They also told me that they have set assembly ready to complete the composite doors for A350 and they have the contract to build the doors I'm just not sure if I'll be working on that program. Also they are going to support tanker KC-45A with door when the dust is set after Boeing quite down their complain and finally realize that 767 is not a better product then A330.

Do you work for Airbus? Do you have any access to their salary tables or charts, I would like to know at what salary would I be looking at for 8yrs aero experience for Design Engineer Electrical Installation. Also do you get 13month pay, christmas pay, any bonuses or EADS stock options, any other benefits, do they pay moving expenses and temporary stay. On the offer they are giving me 4k/month, I want to ask for 60k/year or should I better negotiate monthly salary?

FYI, there are many American engineers working on European aerospace projects. I don't know what they're paying over at EADS/Eurocopter/Airbus, but I do know of Americans with experience similar to yours who are making twice what you were offered. I'm pretty sure there are more lucrative options out there. Also, don't let them use the exchange rate as a means of enticing you (fucking typical industry HR bullshit).

DrivinWest, thanks for info, I'll negotiate with them and hopefully we can find a compromise!

when im done with my work, i know ive done nothing that could lead to the death of another human being.

you can rationalise all you want.

Hi Joe,

I googled around a bit and found that Eurocopter UK is offering 30k GBP for engineers and another site listed some helicopter engineering jobs for 30-35k GBP. My experience is that such a number open on the net can be construed as a low-ball or at least a lower bound. Given the current GBP-EUR exchange rate and assuming a tax,etc. load of 35% in the UK and 45% in Germany, I figure that 53k EUR gross would be the lower boundary.

But really the best advice has already been given and that is to seek out, find and talk to the others who are already here in a similar capacity.

Note: Just about everyone in big business here is constantly bellyaching about there being just not enough qualified people in Germany.

DrivinWest was talking about contractors on short term contracts, you want to go that way then talk to me me more.

yes, this is a direct hire position!
Do they pay any commuting cost? I plan to live in North part of Augsburg and daily commute to Donauwoerth. It seems to be 30min with train.

I would very much doubt that. However you will be able to set a certain amount (depending on the distance minus first 20 kms) against income tax in your annual tax returns.

With 8 years of experience 60k€ is realistic.
It doesn't matter whether the year has 12 or 13.5 month.
Forget about Weihnachtsgeld or Urlaubsgeld. You negotiate your gross yearly income.
Why should the company pay commuting costs?
It's your decision where you plan to live.
Imagine you would live in Hamburg and decide to fly to work.
Some companies give company cars to their employees.
Does Eurocopter offer helicopters to their employees?

Hi again Joe,

With your experience I'd say you could well ask for 60K, and as someone earlier suggested, get a clause in the contract to raise it to 60K afterwards..

tnx

I'll negotiate with HR manager on Wends.
Let you guys what happen.

Just checking back to see what the outcome was on this. Did you fight the man and win or did they wear you down and convince you that you really aren't worth more than 48k? Hope it went well and you negotiated a bit more out of it than they were offering.

I did negotiate and fight little bit and we end up agreeing on 54k euro/year plus in 3 months of employement to have a performance review and increase salary posibility.
I just sent them moving expanses quote and try to have them pay for it. Man, I can tell you California to Augsburg move is very expansive. I'm having 40' container (household goods + Car together) shipped door to door. Next, is to try to get them help me find a flat with an agent and pay temporary stay. Let see what happens. Oh, I signed the contract but they told me they need to have the "Work Consul" to approve it but the HR Manager doesn't think it should be problem.

Works council ... Betriebsrat

right, Works Council or Betriebsrat. I didn't spell it right!

60k sounds cheap, you must put a clause for a 10-15% hike after 1 year sal... so that it looks more decent at 70k after 1 year.
2/3 year good exp in mech design/analysis=60k... Also depends on the extra living costs (big city v/s small village)

Best of luck, Also clear this 13th month salary... because somehow it is not always a fixed proportion (workers council stuff etc!!)

I have little problem getting the work permit.
I have earlier received a job offer in Stuttgart and I said yes, so the company took care of the work permit and in the mean time I had a job interview with EADS and I took the offer with EADS? Now, EADS is trying to get me a work permit but there seem to be little problem because I have already received a work permit for a different company in Stuttgart? Is this a big problem? What should I do? The HR manager told me that they may have to delay my starting date. I want to resolve this ASAP? Any advice?