Why do supermarkets in Munich suck?

My personal opinion is that if strawberries have to be imported from China, then let's do without strawberries until they're in season locally. The concept of seasonality is dead in the UK, killed off long ago by the supermarkets. But in Germany it's fortunately still going strong – hence the excitement of Spargelzeit, or the wild-mushroom season, or the game season. It simply isn't necessary to be able to buy the same food all year round.

More evidence that Germany is at least 25 years behind the rest of Europe with regards to food retailing.

I've also noticed that most of your objections to what the "anti-German supermarket crowd" complains about are ideological and not practical.

Totally agree.
Why do you need to eat strawberries from China - that's totally mental.


That sort of 'Fortschritt' is not always a good thing, you know.

Oh so you cant get spargel any other time? Don't confuse focused traditional selling opportunity events with supply based demand. Two very large kettle of fish, and different ones! Especialy when you consider where most of the spargel for the spargelzeit comes from.

Ah the food miles argument. It's a bit more complicated than most people think and has a hell of a lot more to do with market protectionism.

Not most – ALL! If you want bland hypermarkets everywhere then go live elsewhere. I want choice, quality, local produce and friendly, personalised service and I get that from my local shops and markets. You claim that the two can co-exist but I don't believe it, which is why I get so worked up when expats promote the idea of Germany becoming a clone of the UK, USA and Australia.

@Gideon: Yes, you can buy asparagus all year round (only in supermarkets though, of course), but 90% is sold in April and May, when it's available from local producers. I honestly don't know who would buy it at any other time of the year. Expats, I guess.

You've been living in the UK or the US along and you hadn't told anyone? tsk tsk.

To be honest STB, if you feel that your demands for choice and quality are met here in Germany, then it is obviously clear that your demands and subjective opinion on how they are best fullfilled are lower than others here. All studies in retailing in international markets have shown that a lower satisfaction level is endemic in D. Just go to a Migros or a Carrefour to see the difference.

Totaly wrong about source but carry on


No people who would like to cook asparagus.

The asparagus in this region comes from the Hallertau, about three miles from Freising. How is that not local?


You're still missing my point – I don't want to go to a hypermarket!

Sorry, but ideology doesn't beat common sense.


Which is why I have said a million times on these threads that if you go to France, Belgium or Italy (which are the countries in Europe which I know best) that you have everything from hypermarkets to open-air ones!

Gideon, your demands are just as subjective. That's not an argument. People have got subjective opinions and who is to say that your subjective opinion is to be rated higher than someone else's.

A lot of people do prefer seasonal local food to 'plastic' all year-round 'cloned-looking' food. So just accept that.

So all the aspargus in Freising comes only from your local source at spargelzeit?
I really don't want to doubt your knowledge of retail and the German markets but I'm beginning to feel it is a necessity.

@O. It's not about subjectivity. Retailing is a business. German substandard acceptance and lack of demand for quality and choice is a known market entry barrier. Factoid of the day. Or do we see German mid to quality supermarkets on the expansion in Europe.

All I can think about now when I read through these grocery store topics is what my boyfriend's mother said the last time we went shopping for food. This woman, born and raised in Germany and who now lives in Bavaria (and also lived in Southern California for four years) refuses to shop anywhere other than her local Aldi or Comet. She disliked the supermarkets in the US, and doesn't like the larger German chain stores, because she says "I don't like having too many choices. Why does anyone need to have twenty different types of cereal? I don't like a big selection, it confuses me." She was also very confused when I complained about the lack of things in her local Aldi / Comet like fresh parmesan cheese and Italian sausage; why would anyone need those things anyway, she asked?

And there you have it, straight from an average German consumer.

But where do people prefer to shop??? I'm sure they'd rather go to the local markets to buy fruit & veg than the hypermarket. And if the hypermarkets would be so great, why are there still so many local markets in these places??? Must be all the expats that keep the hypermarkets in business.

When you buy an item from a greengrocer's, they tell you the source. The Hallertau is a large region; there's enough asparagus for everybody who wants it – Munich as well. It's labelled "Hollerdauer Spargel" and will generally also have the name of the farm on the packaging. They also produce enough hops to keep half the world's breweries going.

But that's only the good asparagus; the cheap, all-year round stuff comes from a greenhouse in Holland somewhere.

You actually believe that Germany is some food-haven? I am amazed by the state of denial that you're in. You remind me of these Japanese soldiers who were found stranded on deserted islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean in the 1980s who thought that WWII wasn't over.

Somes it up quiet well GG.

must have been all expats last night at Rewe at 19:50 7 deep in the lines then!

I would love the local produce shops to buy my veggies, but they close early, and I work late, so, I have no other choice then the get crap from the big grocers that their hours suck too! (but that is a totally different thread).
Maybe I should get a house wife to cook and clean for me, then I would think everything here is wonderful?

The average German consumer is a gastronomic simpleton, so which "people" are you talking about? The expats who you portray as snotty are actually people who had normal lives, budgets and habits in the countries that they were in before being in Germany. You make the gripes sound extraordinary, when in fact they are completely understandable when one has been used to something vastly superior and been forced to downgrade his or her food eating habits.


The point is that they have the CHOICE! They can CHOOSE whether they want to go to Carrefour or not. They can CHOOSE whether they want to go to the local butcher or not.

@STB

Friendly, personal service? Surely that was a joke. Germans are hardly personal and rarely friendly within the shopping realm. And could it be the availability of items in US markets year round is also a matter of the US spanning many temperate zones while Germany sits in only one? And just because I can get nice mold free strawberries outside of season in a US market that makes them less consumable than the mold covered ones in German shops in season? Sorry, but I don't understand your argument at all. If you want to support mom and pops, go for it.. I think its a good thing too. Denying that shops here suck is ignorance. When back in the US I happily go directly to the farm on my way home from work and pick up freshly picked corn, or green beans and in April I drive 3 hours to where I grew up in Indiana to go mushroom hunting on my grandparents farm for those beautiful morels. Thats all find and dandy but when I go to the store on the corner I prefer quality and selection not limited choice and crap I would feel guilty about giving to my dog.
Big doesn't always equal bad. And I guess you never eat oranges or bananas since I never saw them growing around Germany.

No, I don't. I actually prefer food shopping when I'm on holiday in the South of Europe, because they've got the best markets with fresh locally-grown stuff that hasn't been pickets five months before it gets sold.

As for Germany, I can speak of my home region and that region is goodfor food. But I can't imagine the rest of Germany being completely differen as i've got friends and family in other areas and they have always nice food when I visit.

The UK is better for some things, but my home town is better for others. But overall, I think (and so do other people I know, British and German) my home region is rating better for food than the UK.

The only thing that is miles better in the UK was the fish stall at my local market in London.

@L8knight: I get friendly, personal service. In the baker's I'm greeting with a "Gruß Gott" and an "auf wiederschauen". I chat with the lovely lady who runs the greengrocer's. The people at the market recognise me. So I don't believe that the shops here "suck". The supermarkets may or may not "suck" – of that I do not care, since I rarely go into one.

As has been mentioned before, if you can't find good-quality food in Germany then you are shopping in the wrong places.

Same sentiments as STB. Why do so many of you think shopping stops at the supermarket? Oh, you're victims of your lack of imagination and so captured by marketing. Carry on...

Agree. There are actually some friendly Germans and good German food on the planet. You just need to look in the right places as Small Town Boy says.

Is it possible to agree with both sides here? Because I do. I think it's obvious and has been pointed out many, many times: yes, it is possible to find decent quality food here AT SMALL MARKETS. However, many of us do not have easy access to said markets, or do not have the time to go from place to place getting everything we need, and hence are forced to shop at larger chain stores where we wish we had a better selection. What many of us are longing for is convenience + quality, and in my mind that is what is really lacking in Germany.

@STB and friends
Where do you buy your electronics? PLEASE don't tell me that you've ever even set foot in a Saturn or MediaMarkt...

Thank you, we have a winner.

lol yes thats right, i shop at my local tenglemann because of marketing...haha

oh yes, and because I am not "imaginative" enough to go to victuallenmarkt, even though I dont live near it

and when in munich I work all hours of day and night and weekends too, making a leisurly shop at a market impossible. Stupid me for wishing for a better selection and quality at the shops I have time to visit. i must be mental

Ah, the Anglo-Saxon lifestyle. You've gotta love it...

Worm, you're in London, there's good food all over the place. If you can't find it there then you're a victim of more than marketing driven brainwashed auto-pilot to Tesco and Munich is full of places open to, and beyond, 8pm that serve excellent food to buy and take away, run by people who care. You've just got to look for it.

And another edit: without wanting to make the point that the quality of food you end up eating is in some way related to the amount of time you spend looking for and preparing it, if you go shopping when the shops are shut then you're inevitably going to be disappointed. The point that we who are happy here make is simply there is the choice, that you do not have to go to places where people are rude and the food is shit, and if you choose (or your employer chooses for you) to make other priority decisions then you have to live with it. Life is the proverbial to some of us.

I was talking about munich - yes Im in london now,

but will back in munich again in a year or two

Or spend too much time arguing about food/supermarket quality that they never have had the time to find out where the Germans shop...Last Saturday I really enjoyed our home cooked fresh Monkfish in a Parma ham mantle with sun-dried tomatoes and Basil, served with bio butter carrots and potatoes (from a local farmer). The fresh Monkfish was from a Nordsee shop I drive by on the way home, the Parma ham and the bio carrots from Aldi. If any of the poor buggers that have such a hard time shopping need any tips as to how I managed such a feat. I'll be more than happy to accommodate

My Dear Girl,
"Convenience" essentially precludes "Quality".
Yours
Garibaldi

In Germany, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

In any case, I make no apologies for my lifestyle or the fact that I do not have time to go from market to market to do my shopping. If others have the time/willingness to do so, then good for you. I envy you. And I'm always open to dinner invitations if anybody feels inclined to show off their shopping and cooking skills.

I also generally do not complain about what is available in the markets I'm able to frequent; I make do with the selection that I have access to and accept that it's just a fact of life here. As I pointed out a few posts back: given the attitude of the average German consumer, the situation isn't likely to change, so I've just gotten used to it.

You will always spend less in supermarkets in Munich, compared with the UK. Don't forget Geiz ist Geil.

The only thing that is more convenient in the UK are the opening hours of the shops and the selection of ready meals. But I personally don't really need 24 hour opening times nor ready prepared stuff.

For all those ready prepared convenience lovers, I'm sure they'll love Delia's new book - using only things out of a packet.

Like Maggi then?

From my perspective, convenience does not necessarily equal eating out of a packet. When I say I want convenience, what I mean is that I want to go to one market on my way home from work and find the basic fresh stuff I need.

Doesn't sound so difficult in theory, but in practice you'd be surprised. Here is an example from my own life. I live and work in central Munich, and if I get a wild hair that I want chicken breasts for dinner, it's not unusual that I have to go to two or possibly three different stores to get them. I usually try the Rewe in the Fünf Höfe first, but they are small (actually, more like medium-sized as German supermarkets go) and do not restock throughout the day, so if they sell out of chicken at 9am then too bad for me. That means I have to go over to the Galeria Kaufhof and spend twice the price, or make another stop at the Rewe on Tal in the vague hope that I might possibly find chicken there, and be prepared for the possibility that they may not have it and hope that they have some sort of other decent cut of meat available that I can buy instead, which even if they do will then therefore force me to potentially rejigger my entire meal plan for the evening on the spot.

And this is just chicken. Not anything exotic. Just chicken. There is no reason on earth why any store like Rewe should not have chicken breasts, even at the end of the day.

Edit: yes, and I agree with you Keydeck, there's been quite enough discussion on this particular subject. And since I usually protest against topics being done to death, I'll quit perpetuating this one.

Obviously all the black people got there before a pale-skinned thing like yourself.

Unlike chicken breasts which are a pale skinned-thing.

Or something.

I do hope this is the last thread started about supermarkets in Germany and their quality or lack thereof. I weally, weally do.

Mmmm MSG tastic ...

I wonder why there is such a market for 'quick fix' recipes (the German equivelent of ready meals) loaded with flavour enhancers? Perhaps its because the quality of ingredients that the average shopper (not living in a market town with a specialist market) purchases is so poor that they need enhancing.

The stuff is cheap - that it is because it is the food dregs that cannot be sold anywhere else on the global market as it is about to go off and discerning customers (basically anyone who is not German) will simply not spend money on something that is visibly about to go off (indeed if it has not already on the shelves ). That is also why things run out all the time - because they are simply not available to the supermarket purchasers at a price the Germans will pay for it.

Hmmm, I just look at what's written on the Maggi packs and then make the same dishes using ingredients bought in the same supermarket. No problemo. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by my local Hit.

No problems with chicken then?

Obviously different demographics to round here then.

Sorry, but that's crap. Germans do buy quality produce, if they didn't there wouldn't be so many small butchers, greengrocers and markets, like it is now in Britain. Supermarket fresh produce is often crap, more than often actually, but there is plenty of good stuff out there. Why the supermarkets haven't latched on to this is a mystery.

Sorry, thought we were talking about the purchasing potential in supermarkets. Ie the things that German supermarkets stock for their German customers. Obviously, this is different to what can be found in smaller local retailers. But this is not a thread about smaller local retailers being crap. Or is it? If Germans wanted quaility produce in their supermarkets comparable to the small retail sector then there would be a demand. But there isn't and people have to drag themselves to the local market after they have already been to the supermarket to purchase bananas for example.

I general yes it's about supermarkets and their fresh produce and I agree they'r pretty ropey, but when you make sweeping comments like: "discerning customers (basically anyone who is not German)" I'm afraid I feel I have to disagree with you.

@Allershausen

Oh, I meant 'discerning' in the sense of being able to perceive a difference rather than being a 'discerning individual'. But I can see that I was ambigous and it comes across as quite rude to say the least. What I meant is that it always amazes me that people are prepared to buy such crappy fruit, veg etc in general when at other times of the year, when there is a surplus on the international markets, you can get good quality yummy stuff in the bulk discounters. It is not as if they have never experienced anything better. However, there is clearly a supermarket 'market' for 39 or 49 cents cucumbers in January / February or they wouldn't sell them and in such an instance you do get what you pay for.

Local Lidl now selling cucumbers at 29 cent I would like to report that these poorly looking items were looking forlorn and abandoned in the produce section but were being snapped up as the 'bargain' they are.

Oh, and they had run out of milk again before 6.00pm. People were out restocking the dairy section so I doubt that was the problem. (Edit - either space for a reserve in the back or the resources to fling the stock on the shelves)

It is interesting that Supermarkets provoke such big discussions...probably more interesting to consider cultural theorists, such as the Frankfurt School, Adorno, Horkheimer etc...might be preferable to some of the banalities on TT.

Do you mean a BIG store?
In that case possibly. But there is always the issue of supply management.
You want 100% availability at 1959 but 0% avaiability at 2001.

For a SMALL store in inner Munich, they simply don't have the space.
The aisles are jammed when they open around 7 or 8 AM (and people bitch about it) becasue they have NO storage space and have to get daily deliveries.
They'll carry as much as they physically can to sell in that day.

And woe betide any store selling meat from yesterday, would be a moany thread on Toytown!

What I find odd is the number of greengrocer type stalls that operate right next to supermarkets. If supermarkets sold decent produce, then there's no way they should be able to survive.

Unfortunately the selection at most of these is somewhat limited, due to their size.