The Register: American-German biometric database share deal inked.


As some of the comments have already noted, you don't have to be a criminal to end up on a fingerprint database.

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'Terrorist' is the motto used to ring in a new age lacking privacy and anonymity. From a totalitarianism aspect, I see every advantage to suicide bombers. That'll allow us to once and for all snuff out all this 'free-thinking' that keeps money in your pockets and not ours. Now we have to expat to Mars, and that is not a cheap flight.

As we speak , there is a case before the European court of human rights (grand chamber) on the retention of fingerprints and DNA for those never convicted of a criminal offence.

If that case fails then throughout Europe they will be collecting DNA and fingerprints. So, if you care enough, go down and speak to your politician and encourage them to make a noise about your views, else you will never get another opportunity.

We literally have only a few weeks before the decision is announced.

Again (and again and again), if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about. Why care unless you are trying to hide something or have plans of committing a crime at some time in the future?

One factor is a matter of trust in the authorities - or rather a lack thereof. Governments/authorities tend to be lax when handling money (tax money) or data of their people...

It is likely to be easy to be declared a criminal "by accident" and then you are stuck & probably cannot get out of it.

I have similar situation at moment - one respectable company claims that they cannot do business with me as "my bank has put my account onto a black list" whilst
my bank is going up the wall claiming that all is OK & we are nothing less the "highly valued customers". Both sides hide behind "Datenschutz".
Before anyone asks: we have no debts, not defaulted on paying etc...

there are some people who left the united states for germany in hopes of a better life. maybe they made a mistake over there and watned to start over here. and now that life will haunt them if fingerprints are brought up.. i say NO they shouldnt do that. maybe the should start a different data base here instead

Shocker: America is not immune to maintaining a finger-print database and coerces Germany into playing ball. Germany 'caves in' to totalitarianism again.

I edited that for what you were really trying to say. Aww, poor criminals might have to take their punishment. Boohoo. There's an old saying that goes: "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

Wrong, left uncontested this could become the biggest infringement on civil liberties since the fascist era and it could all be achieved in increments.

1. Terror attacks occur even though the database exists, this leads to the argument that the database can only be truly effective if all persons residing in the EU and US are on the database.
Governments are experts in ramping up fear and may use attacks, and mounting public fear, to push through legislation to remove an innocent person’s right not to be on the database.

2. The collection, collating and preserving of DNA and fingerprint samples from all citizens would not be cheap; in order to defray costs (especially if the operation of the database is privatized) legislation may be passed to permit police to use the database for prosecution of other crimes.

3. Advances in other technologies combined with the database may be used to levy fines for actions which at present aren’t worth prosecuting.
For example; most nations still have laws which make littering and spitting in public offenses, nobody gets prosecuted because it is not worth the police time to take them to court.
However when (not if) we reach a point where our streets are cleaned by remote units the cost of those could be defrayed by installing sampling systems linked to the DNA database so that every cigarette butt, snotrag and piece of spittle could be analyzed and an automatic fine sent to the offender much as speeding tickets are today.
If this occurs then the citizen has become little more than a source of revenue for the state.

4. The compulsory registration of all citizens and the inevitable downward creep of offenses for which the database can be accessed has the potential to create something new in European jurisprudence, the assumption that all citizens are guilty of some crime and must be made to pay (preferably in hard cash).

William, I couldn't agree more!
And our governments are businesses. Owning the most valueable information of each of its citizens - your biometric data - is worth a mint. And you have to give it to them for free.

Also HEM and happyradio - agree 100%. In 1999, I wanted to have proof of my good conduct - i.e. no criminal record - and voluntarily went to my local police station and submitted my ten fingerprints. Since then I have been hassled at every airport, including being scan-checked for explosives at Brisbane airport in 2003, and being 'taken aside' when leaving Sydney for Munich in May 2006, made to sit in a room for 15 minutes, then told I was free to board the plane, no explanation. Coincidence??? Maybe.

I am glad that germany did this, good for germany. The german will be happy knowing that any American living in germany is not a criminal( and if u are a criminal dig a hole like saddam and pray).

You're not looking at the bigger picture, this scheme is not just about fighting crime, it's the fact that it's being introduced under the auspices of 'the war against terror'. Use your imagination, what other nifty little ideas do you think will be dreamt up under this banner?

With respect, that's bollocks... We all know how incompetent the British government has been with protection of the British public's personal data. The more data that is stored and shared, the more interesting it will be for hackers to hack those systems. If that information gets into the wrong hands, it would not be difficult to misuse it (e.g. you could easily be framed for something you have never done).

Obvious answer Odewalter is that people like you contribute your DNA fingerprints and a good mug-shot of yourself to the authorities and those of us that don't trust big bro refrain from doing so. that way everyone is happy. Q. why have you not provided your samples as yet?

Wow, Odenwalder...what a bend over and take it in the ass attitude you have. I mean really, it's not a matter of "if you have never done anything wrong you don't need to worry" more a matter of, if you've never done anything wrong, they why the hell should they be able keep tabs on you. And yes, they will keep tabs of people who have done nothing, only a fool would think otherwise. Many (innocent) people have been 'flagged' for no reason due to genius programs similar to this (though Cat Stevens was a bit funny) the point is, simple flaws like that can really disrupt or destroy a persons life and all for what? Security?? Do you really think some poor choice should have to follow and interfere with someones life who is trying to make a change? And on the extreme side, what 'terrorist' hell bent on blowing himself up gives a f*ck if some fingerprint has been taken from him? Security?? My...no, your ass...

Governments use this fear and terra card to infringe upon civil liberties. I left the US to get away from this, the EU better smack this stupid proposal down ASAP. Ever read the Shock Doctrine?

I often wonder why some people are in Germany. Not working, not studying, not with a spouse who is here for work, etc. My favorite quote from this person was, "I would rather chew on glass than learn German."

I figure that there must be some statute of limitations that this guy is running from.

I'm not in the system, but still don't want my fingerprints everywhere. Not much you can do about it, though.

Case-in-point:
While State-side, I went to cash a check from my grandmother at my mom's bank. They used her account balance as collateral in case the check did not clear. They had my passport info, signature, and credit card info (this counts as a second form of I.D. for some reason in the USA) then wanted a thumbprint from me. I told them to forget it. If they cannot accept a passport as identification, forget it. I also was not fond of their system, so I took my check and left. My mom thought I was being stupid, but I took my business elsewhere.

Sorry Odenwalder, but your "...if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about." just doesn't cut it. We all have something to worry about because we all have sometthing to hide which the government wishes to stick its nose into, namely our privacy. To give a crass but serious example: when was the last time you went to the loo and left the door open while you were there? Never, I'll bet. And I'll also bet you don't tell all and sundry how much you earn, either. Or have sex with the door open. You get my drift. I'm talking about activities that are legal, morally legitimate - even non-fattening - but quite simply nobody else's goddamned business. To look at the issue from another perspective, it's all about the law-abiding private citizen's right to be left alone by the state.

What a bunch of mongoloid twats. And for the record, my fingerprints, DNA, and picture IS on file and I don't care. Hell, I just updated my fingerprints THIS MONTH. It's really quite simple: No fingerprints = no travel. That's fine with me. Fewer morons on airplanes means more relaxing flights.

God, no not in my beloved country of England! < insert god save the queen music >

National DNA database is a database of DNA samples against which law enforcement agencies can match suspect DNA. The first national database was set up by the United Kingdom in April 1995. The second one was set up in New Zealand [1]. France set up the FNAEG in 1998. In the USA, the FBI has organized the CODIS database. Originally intended for sex offenders, they have since been extended to include almost any criminal offender.

In England and Wales, anyone arrested on suspicion of a recordable offence must submit a DNA sample to the database, which is then kept on permanent record. In Scotland, the law is different and most people are removed from the database if they are acquitted.

Shock? More like yawn I say.

* Yawn *

Just finished it...

Well written and very well researched. I'd say about 1/5 of the book is reserved at the back just for referencing.

@Odenwalder... you are just absolutely fucking naive... Your attitude reeks of submission and demonstrates how uninformed you are...

The problem is that the larger portion of the population are just as misinformed and don't care to change that.

Any person who still has trust in our governments needs their head read!

There is ample evidence to suggest that they are doing everything BUT looking out for our interests.

The book mentioned above is only one well documented example of the previous sentence.

This is nothing surprising. The 3rd Reich is still alive and well, and oppressing German citizens as they have been since well before the 1st World War. This society in Germany...and those in "Authority," do not care at all for their citizens. They keep their citizens in fear all the time, which is a well known and long time used method of control and manipulation. It's just another added example of fascism and nothing new. As soon as I'm financially able, my husband and I are OUT OF here...(and he is a German citizen and cannot STAND the restrictive and oppressive society any longer as well!)

... and you seemed so nice and balanced on The Brady Bunch. :-)

The freeways are still free. Before you go back to the US, make sure to catch an episode of COPS to see how nice it can be living in the States.