Technical advice on buying a mountain bike - Munich

Hi
I am going to buy a hardtail mountain bike in the next couple of weeks and could use some good advice. Here is my profile:

My bike is my pride and joy. Up until recently, I was very proud of my Giant Yukon (beginner MTB with Shimano Altus components, now 15 years old). Then-I tested a few new bikes and there is no looking back. A new bike is a necessity. Any bike over 500 Euros will be an improvement but I really want the BEST that will hold out another 10 years.

I appreciate good quality but can only spend up to 750 Euros.
Need a bike for everyday use in the city and light trails.
Need to mount a child seat; all other city equipment is just bulky and annoying.
Want to get down and dirty on the weekends. Not pro downhill or free ride, just fun mucky trails.

I done a lot of research (mtbr.com, local bike stores, test rides etc. ) but I would like a few more opinions from experienced bike fans.

A few questions:

I was considering buying a MTB because they are compact and agile. But I have also considered putting cross tires on a MTB to accommodate city use and pick up some speed. I tested a cross bike and I just like the feel of a MTB better. Any thoughts on this?

I really really like the hydraulic disc breaks. But do I really need them??? Are they worth the extra 100 Euros? It is important for me to have great breaks—especially with my little guy on back. What are the differences between Shimano discs and Magura

I assume that Shimano Deore is enough for me, but of course I would rather have LX or even XT (although in my price category, XT is rare). Is there a huge difference between Deore and Deore LX?

And how ‘bout those shocks? I have read that the Suntour line is not as great as RockShox’s line but I think the opinion was from someone on another level.

The name brand is less important for me but I am looking at the following:
Felt Q720 for 699 €
Focus Fat Boy 659 € (with Magura Julie Disc breaks)
Cube Acid LTD Disc 769€ from orig. 999€
Stevens S6 700€ (local store)
Trek 6500E Disc 799€
Does anyone have time to look at these for me? Anyone own one or the other??

Thanks for any help

These are largely mutually exclusive - even in Munich/Bavaria decent bikes get stolen and I would strongly urge spending 50 euro for a stable second hand bike for use in the city and keep your pride and joy securely locked in the cellar and then razz it like a mad thing down the trails when you get chance.

To recent bikes I'm not a big expert but believe there are components that are worth investing in like good gears, quality bearings, good front suspension, and a decent brake mechanism and other areas where you can save such as rear suspension, disc brakes, hydraulic brakes, carbon frames and so on. I have two bikes, one with Deore gears for the city the other with XTR and the difference is huge, not directly what you ask but maybe useful. The XTR set will happily change gear without unelegant clunking at full load.

I have thought about the second bike option. I live in Freising and there are actually a lot of bikes in the 500-800 Euro category standing around. That doesn't mean they don't get stolen though...
Usually, I am only in town to do the shopping and quick stuff. My bike would be indoors at home. It never stands around at the station or overnight anywhere. I think that it would be ok with a high level lock, or not?
The Stevens S6 that I tested only had the "standard" Avid V-breaks and I guess, if I am honest, is perfectly fine. I just really liked those discs.

A friend had a bike with normal (non-disc) brakes and a hydraulic system and it was very good, the hydraulics give a very good sense of feedback although they're expensive, heavy and tough to maintain. I would class them as entirely optional! Same with disc brakes on the end. I've never used a bike with disc brakes but I've heard some bad stuff about them and honestly you're unlikely to ever ride your bike enough such that wear on the wheel rims is a significant problem, or at least more significant than the problems caused by the tight tolerances on disc brakes. Disc brakes also all but require a hydraulic system which only increases weight/cost/maintenance as above. My bike has Avid V-brakes and the only problem you're likely to face is using them too vigorously the first time you touch them and coming a cropper, they're very efficient!

Edit: For shocks my bike has the Rockshox SID Dual Air and they're excellent. In the beginning I was a bit put off by the recommended service interval but I ignored that and they still work fine years later. You do need a high pressure pump though.

Thanks HellesAngel

I think you are right. I should probably get the disc breaks outta my head. I have heard about the problems with them. Everyone (even the dealers) have told me that the Avid breaks are top. The stevens S6 has them and they seem good. I can get that bike for 600€ if I take it with a tiny lack error. It has a SR Suntour Epicon LOD, 80mm, Lockout Alu-shaft that you can control from the handlebar. Worked well on the test ride.

I think I will look for more options without the disc breaks. This may open new doors...

If I were in your situation I'd leave the disc brakes too, but you got that already. One thing that's worth looking at is getting fully sealed wheel and headset bearings as these are a lot more resistant to wear than the semi-sealed ones as they don't allow dirt to get in to the load bearing parts. I forget what my bike has on it but if my understanding is correct the semi-sealed bearings have a rubber flap over them and that's it for protection, the sealed bearings are all metal. That said my cheap bike (a Gazelle 'mountain' bike) has done about 30,000Km in all weathers, through dirt and salt and whatever else, and only now are the bearings properly shot. In practice this seems to mean new wheels which is why it may be worth getting better bearings depending how much you spend on wheel rims.

Like others have mentioned, if you can just go with Avid BB7's if at all possible. The major problem with all the bikes that you have listed is the really low-end fork that they have from the factory. You can upgrade later, but it's almost as expensive to do it later as the bike costs new. If you can do it, spend the money at the beginning, you'll save a lot more in the long run.

I race and build up all of my own bikes and I'd have a really hard time choosing between the ones that you have listed. I suppose when it comes down to it, I'd probably go with the Felt. Outside of the fork, it's got the best equipment.

You're real best best is to buy a bike in the States and bring it over. If you were to do that, I'd go with a Kona first and a Specialized second. For the money, I think that Kona puts together a package that's hard to beat. Specialized does a good job as well, but I like Kona because they still do some steel frames.

Someone else mentioned getting a cheap city bike. I concur. One of the worst things you can do to a good bike is leave it outside in the weather.

Lastly... please, please oil your chain and keep air in your tires. It's something people do here and as a cycling fanatic it send me around the bend.

By the way... I hold on to my bikes forever and 5 years is a really long time to expect a bike to hang around. Most people trade out mountain bikes every couple of years. Good luck. One last tidbit, try out every bike that you can for size and fit. Make sure that they help you set it up for you.

Thanks guys, good tips. I looked at a Steppenwolf on the weekend-a special edition, but similar to the timber, I think. It has Shimano LX, Avid breaks, and the fork was a suntour XCR (low end, so I am told). The steppenwolf is at the top of the list so far cause it will be custom made-I can switch anything I need to. I really can't afford to put a better fork on though.
The problem with the suspension forks is that I really just don't know enough about them but having any suspension on my bike will a step up.
I like the Felt on paper but have not been able to find one (my size) to test ride. The same with the Cube.
Where do they sell Kona in Munich? I have looked at a few in the internet, but can't find a dealer around Freising. Unfortunately, I can't wait for my next trip home.

They sell Kona in Radsport Rösch, Implerstr. opposite Cafe Blue.

Have a look at Canyon and Rose Versand as well. Canyon is tough to beat on price and component level. Cube is up there as well but are having problems with delivering the goods at the moment. For a hard tail you can go for the no name brands like carver and dynamics as well. there is not much that can really go wrong. Compare geometries and take a scale along to compare weights. You can get a nice 12kg bike for 700€.

As for Discs, canti breaks, ride both and make up your own mind. I persoanlly swore by canti's until I rode discs... now, well... horses for courses... I won't go back to canti's with the riding I do in the mountians, but for city cruising and some light trail riding it is another story completly.

I ride a decent bike, around town, weekends, commuting etc... but just never leave it in silly places and it is always locked. I think vandalism is more of a problem than theft.

Around 750euros can get you a decent bike from Rabe. The bikes/frames are usually labelled Rabe, but in fact they are Cube. Check them out here:

http://www.rabe-bike.de/angebote-mountain.html

Their main shop is on Lindwurmstrasse, more south from Poccistrasse.

They had a bike with complete XT last year, for 999euros, and there was no better deal around.

I second Canyon for quality, that'll be my next bike most likely...but there isn't much in the 750euro range.

Brad

Lots of good tips, thanks again. I am still looking for that GREAT deal on a GREAT bike. At this rate I may just have one by next year...

Really this is the wrong time of year to buy a bike, it's the right time of year to buy skis though... Lots more bike deals in autumn...

Not really the wrong time... You can pick up some really good deals on 2006 and 2007 bikes if you look around as absolutly nobody in there right mind wants a last year model... at least nobody I know here in Germany... :-)

Wave spome cash around in the face of a salesman here in Germany and you even get discount, "just for u an all..." I have been offered some nice 20% plus discounts in the last few weeks, even from the bigger handlers like Radl Bauer, not that I am suggesting you buy from them of course!

Wow, I never realised these were so heavy but a nice bike never the less. All the major components are of good quality, albeit a bit on the heavy side.

http://www.roseversand.de/output/controlle...p;detail2=14116

No, not the best time to buy a bike--especially when I look outside today! Unfortunately, I really need to buy now. My Giant needs about 150 Euros just in basic repairs before I can put a child seat on it. I would hate to invest that in a bike that is not worth much more anyway. I would much rather spend 700 for a new one
I may just take a 06 or 07 model. This is one of those things that always happens to me though. I start out with a budget and an idea of what I can actually get for that. Then I see the newest and latest stuff and think--gotta have that. In 9 out of 10 cases though the new stuff is not even that much better-just new.

@Dale-funny you should post a link to that bike. I was seriously looking at it yesterday. I think I really need to do a couple couple more translations before I can spend that extra 99 Euros.

My opinion, spend more now rather than upgrading later. Upgrading makes no sense at all!

Newest and latest is sometimes kinda cool to have, sometimes, it's nice to spoil oneself.

Check out http://www.zweirad-stadler.de/Fahrrad_Moto...&naviid=522 Dynamics is the house brand for Stadler. There closest shop is in Regensburg but may be worth the trip. Very good service, I have never been let down.

I can definitely agree with the first part of Dale's comments. Often, if you spend a bit more, you get a lot more. When I was in the bike business, spending $500 vs. spending $400 got you about 50% more bike. I'd guess that has probably been pushed up to the $750 mark by now though. In any case, if you can do it, spend the money up front and change/upgrade as things break or wear out.

Don't know much about buying/building cheap bikes, and none of the above really fill me with any enthusiasm. However, one manufacturer you could add to the list is on-one.co.uk, they sell complete bikes with good geometries & components at a reasonable price. Euro is quite strong right now too. The brakes that wunnspeed describes, Avid BB7's are good, and if you get these you probably won't need hydraulic ones for the riding you have described.

http://www.ciclib.de/

Knew it was possible. Sub 12kg bike and under 700€. have a look at the "No Saint Angel LX '08".

I'm sure by now you are understanding what is important to me :-)

Well, still no bike. Just found out that the tax return will not be what we were expecting. Hmmmm. Financing??? I think I will be forced to put new tires, chain and break pads on the giant and deal with it for a while...TOTAL BUMMER!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the great tips--maybe they will help someone else as well...

Oh, I just can't stop lookin. Then I came across this 2007 model.
I am still not sure about the fork, but like I said, I never had one before so any suspension will be an improvement. This just seems like a great deal. I just can't find any info on the size of the frame.
What do ya think? It was orig. over 1130 Euros and now 565! Why so cheap???
Hawk 66 Blackline (2007)

Rahmen: Hawk ALU 7005 Proline Geometrie
Gabel: Rock Shox Tora, Remote Lock Out, 100 mm Federweg
Steuersatz: Zero, semi-integriert, gedichtet
Lenker: FSA XC 280 Riser Alu
Vorbau: FSA OS 170 Alu, 1 1/8 Zoll A-Head
Sattelstütze: FSA SL 280
Sattel: Velo VL2071
Kurbel: Shimano Deore FC-M531, 42/34/24 Zähne
Innenlager: Shimano BB-UN26 Patronenlager, kompakt, gedichtet
Schaltwerk: Shimano Deore XT (27-Gang)
Umwerfer: Shimano Deore LX
Bremsen: Magura Julie Disc, hydraulische Scheibenbremsen
Bremshebel: Magura Julie
Schalthebel: Shimano Deore
Kassette: Shimano Deore, 9-fach (11-32 Zähne)
Kette: Shimano CN-HG53
Felgen: Rigida Taurus 2000 Disc MTB, Alu Hohlkammer, schwarz 26 Zoll
Naben: Shimano HB-M525 Disc
Speichen: Nirosta
Vorderreifen: Schwalbe Racing Ralph Evolution, falt 57-559, 26 Zoll
Hinterreifen: Schwalbe Racing Ralph Evolution, falt 57-559, 26 Zoll
Pedale: Wellgo MTB Alu LU-A9, kugelgelagert

Modelljahr: 2007

Änderungen laut Hersteller vorbehalten.

Seems a pretty good deal. Any idea of it's weight??

The fork is actually better than any of the others that I've seen you post thus far. The Tora is the same fork as the Reba except for having steel sliders (the inside 'sliding' portion of the shock) instead of aluminum. It's LX/XT which isn't bad stuff at all.

Unfortunately, the bike is pretty heavy--About 13 kilos! I am not real worried about it though cause I most likely wont be doing as much trail riding as I would like anyway...

There's an old engineers addage that works well for bikes...

Pick any two... cheap, light, strong.

It's so true.

yep. I found that out. It took me HOURS of searching, but it is true.

THe reason it is cheaper is that the components are not the latest 2008 bling. But it looks good on paper, don' worry too much about the weight, the most important thing is the confort on the thing. Try it, if you can. And stay away from Suntour shocks, blah and a wet noodle or a brick in 3 months time.

Better for training rides...

Has anyone come acroos this outfit? http://www.alpha-bikes.de/

I bought a Fatmodul XC01 (ie a fully) from them last autumn - and it is stunning to ride.
I was also well impressed with the service.

They seem to have some hardtail models in your price range on the website.
Apologies in advance if this just causes you more confusion or gnashing of teeth.

I did look at the Fatmodul hardtail and really considered it. No matter now!
I GOT THE HAWK!!!
It came yesterday and I am very happy so far. Perfect fit! What a beauty! I will test it off road this weekend. The only thing was that it came with Schwalbe Nobby Nic Evo instead of the Racing Ralph tires.
I think I got lucky though cause this bike was only offered at three places in the Internet and they all sold out the next day. Crazy!

Have a great weekend everybody and thanks for all the help!
dftm

Congrats on the new bike.

The nobbly nic tyres are in my opinion better for a trail rider. The racing ralf tread sucks in slippery, wet, muddy stuff, but they do roll better. The nobbly nic offers much better traction. I have a racing ralf fitted to the rear of my new bike and it is noticably loose, it does fly over the harder pack surfaces though.

I'm gonna be breaking mine in on its first real mountain, trail ride tomorrow. What a feeling.

If you want to good bike for a very fair price, take a look at Herkelmann (www.herkelmann-bikes.de). They custom-build bikes at decent price. In 2003, I bought one of their Jago Lights (11 kg) for my first TransAlp, and it's still a dream to ride A friend at work took mine for a test ride & then bought the same thing. Herkelmann is a family-run company & they're very flexible.

I remember another woman on the TransAlp tour who had paid 100-200 Euro more, but her bike's components were not as good quality.

Enjoy!

Couldn't see the Jago Light on that website ...

Tell us about your Trans-Alp trip.
This is something I've been meaning to do for ages ... maybe this summer is the year.
Was it an organized thing or did you just go ahead and organize it yourself?