Movie shows Germans not immune to return of Nazis

A movie to be released in Germany on Thursday March 13, 2008 dramatizes the possibility of another dictatorship emerging in Germany and concludes that such a hypothesis is possible.

Reuters: Film shows Germans not immune to return of Nazis



Official site: Die Welle (2008)

It's based on a true story, but not in Germany. Instead, it was an experiment by a school teacher in California. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_%28book%29

Yep. I wanted to mention Morton Rhue's (Todd Strasser) book The Wave, too, but I thought I'd leave it for the comments.

The caption "Film shows Germans not immune to return of Nazis" is a great eye catcher, but doesn't grasp the intention of neither the movie nor the book, I think. A "return" means something known which can easily be recognized and averted, but the scary message of the movie and the experiment is that totalitarian elements creep in slowly, and possibly change their nature in different times.

I agree, RD. I do agree that Germans are probably no more "immune to the lure of charismatic leaders or persuasive group dynamics than any other nationality" but at the same time I do not think they are any less immune either. And of course the Third Reich happened in Germany, but virtually everyone in the world knows about it. I am not sure why one would assume that Germans are supposed to have learned more from it than other nationalities, particularly nowadays in the younger generations. I would hope that other nationalities have learned just as much (or as little).
And blaming the Third Reich on the German mentality or saying that something like this could never happen again is very naive (as has been proven with that experiment and many religious sects/cults prove the same, in my opinion); it is dangerous to underestimate the susceptibility of a human being to things like this.
Looks like an interesting movie. Unfortunately I won't be in Germany to see this. I do *think* I read the book at some point (but I am not 100% sure).
Reminds me of "Das Experiment" which is a very good German movie based on the Stanford prison experiment.

In the 80ies there was also an american TV movie about this book. In germany we had to watch it in school.

I made that assumption when I first moved here. I can't speak for everyone, but considering the scope of the War, and that they have a reputation for dealing with it better than, lets say, Japan, I thought they would have learned more from their past's mistakes. I think it's a fair assumption to make, although erroneous. I think the person making the assumption assumes too much empathy on the part of the subject.

Without professional help, or a rare amount of will power and self awareness, trauma begats trauma. Abusers were often abused themselves. It's a cycle that's hard to break. Look at Israel, or Zimbabwe.

Anyone read yesterday's Süddeutsche Zeitung article about this movie? Satyrical masterpiece.
"Film shows Germans not immune to return of Nazis" - erm no... I guess nobody would have been bothered by a more adequate and truthful headline. It looks like some kind of idiot just had a look at the surface.

On the overall subject: Leader-phenomenon(s) can be observed around the world, it's not a german but a human weakness. Regarding the fact that back then, Germany was residence to Europe's intellectual elite, I actually believe nobody claiming that if he had lived around 1930 'he would have acted differently, resistance, morality,detect the evil plot blah'. Thinking such is proof of vital ignorance and arrogance.
The contemporary circumstances and fears were fuel to the rise of Hitler, not any of those dubious 'german mentality' therories.

Sorry kids but this shit about 'could happen again' is just too boring and stupid to spend effort on. It's interesting that people still spend their time thinking about this subject but it is no more probable here than anywhere else - in fact it's less probable.

The book and film are about how a totalitarian regime comes into power - defying the logic of why a majority would support (actively or passively) a political system which is at the same time is ultimately detrimental to the majority. Compared to the 'world average', Germans are more travelled (so aware of other cultures), are highly educated, are economically prosperous, have structured and stable government (which also has a lot of checks and balances against centralisation of power), have highly-developed sense of selfishness (note queue-jumping!) and anti group-think, etc...

Totalitarian governments have existed since 1945 and still exist in plenty of countries..there's no need to ponder if it will happen again... it already has!

Oh man that movie looks fkn terrible. You gotta laugh at the Sophie Scholl character tossing out leaflets at the swim meet.

There were many experiments in the US aside from the 3rd wave.. as Mariposa mentioned the Stanford prison experiment, the Milgram experiment as well as the blue-eyed children experiment by Jane Elliot. Anyone who went to grammar and high school knows that it's not too difficult to fall into a group, follow the leader and do what they say in order to be accepted.

As many have pointed out, the idea that this is a German phenomenon is ridiculous. Unfortunately there are many people who still think there is something inherently German that allowed this to happen.

I watched it too.

Hitler became dictator of Germany by the Enabling Act on March 23, 1933, less than two months after he was voted Chancellor. He then absolved the remaining political parties by Summer 1933, less than half a year after obtaining power. Creep in slowly?

I think too that this is not a specific German phenomenon, but mainstream German culture is particularly susceptible to some manifestations of it. As mentioned in other threads in this forum, there is a certain state of mind that is very pronounced in German thinking, that once there is a law, you can do anything as long as you're not breaking it explicitly. Or, as Lenin put it once - There will never be a revolution in Germany, because you're not allowed to step on the grass (said mainly in light of the 1948 "spring of nations" which basically skipped over Germany and Austro-Hungary).

Couple that with an awe and unrestrained respect for authority, especially in uniform, and you have all the eggs you need to cook the totalitarian omelette.

Me too! I watched the original movie too, and was wondering if Die Welle was a remake. I guess it is, huh?

If you have something against what I said, why don't you skip the ad hominem crap and explain why you think it's wrong.