My own personal melodrama, is love enough?

So I moved to Munich 1 and a half years ago. The first six months I spent getting used to my job, the next six months getting used to Munich. I was starting to make friends and then I met Hans. Hans and I started to go out about 6 months ago, and everything was going really, really well until now.

We spend a lot of time together, weekdays he comes over to my place and on weekends I'm at his. We do a lot of stuff together, love each other loads and have talked about marriage and kids (having them, at some point in the future). The problem though, is that neither one of us have a lot of friends, and not out of choice. I have my friends, but they're not in Munich and I need to make new friends here. He moved to Munich 2 years ago also, so he doesn't have a lot of friends here either, though he has several good friends here which I do not. When he asks me to meet his friends (the well-established friendships) I make an effort to get along with them even though they speak Bavarian/German which I am still learning with great difficulty. He asks me to go out with people he doesn't know that well also, but unlike his 'real' friends, these people don't try to speak English or simpler German to help me out; they tend to ignore me and just chat amongst each other. So I've given up on my end and now when he asks if I'd like to join them for drinks I say no. I made the mistake of telling him that since they were not really his friends, why bother?

I asked him to join me and some people I am becoming friends with and he gave me the same line. "They're not your friends, why bother?" But I have no 'real' friends in Munich; my best friends are at least a continent away so all I have here in Munich are acquaintances who may or may not someday become good friends. Because he also moved to Munich recently he sees our situations are being the same, but I think the language plays a huge part; he can chat to anyone, anywhere, as long as they share enough interests. I am limited to the small number of people who feel comfortable enough to converse in English.

I love him a lot and really want this to work out but I'm getting tired of the arguments we have every time we try to sort out whether we go out alone, with his friends, or my friends. On top of that, any time we have an argument he acts like it's the end of the world and complains that we fight too much and is very resistant towards talking things out. I used to ignore his pessimistic attitude and was always the first to apologize or talk or whatever but now I'm tired of that too. I don't want to think about breaking up with him because I feel that it's so difficult to find love that when you do, you should do whatever you can to make it work. But I find myself thinking of my single life and wishing that I had that hassle-free time again.

I guess I have two questions:
1. Any other expats here, who started to go out with a German before you established your circle of friends? Did you face a similar situation? And even if not, any advice you can give me on how to deal with this?
2. How long do you keep trying to make things work before giving up?

That wasn't really two questions... anyway, please help --- I can't afford therapy!

Try some new things together where there is no pressure on either person to justify their personal circle? Try the GEA perhaps?

Did your boyfriend give you the same line to get back at you? (Because that would be a bit childish.) Can't blame you for not wanting to hang out with his friends if they cannot even be bothered to make an effort to speak a little more understandable/slowly and not in dialect. Reminds me of the friends of my roommate who were here for her birthday who told me (not because I said something, I suppose they could tell from my face that I was a bit lost), "well, sorry we are speaking in Catalan all the time, it's just what we're used to" and then went back to continuing their conversation in Catalan. (Not all of her friends did this, some did speak Spanish that evening. I found it a bit strange, considering they are native speakers of both languages, and were even aware of what they were doing was rude, but that didn't stop them from doing it.) Has your boyfriend said anything about that to his friends? Like asked them to speak more slowly / in English? Out of respect for you. Have you? Don't hesitate to point it out to them.

Learn German. ASAP. Really, it will be helpful. I do not think your situations are quite the same, I agree with you. Which is why, you should learn German. It'll make a lot of things easier for you, and you could also meet other people in your German class (if you take classes).

The problems about arguing are altogether different. (Have nothing to do with language.) If you love him and you know he loves you, try to make it work, but I do not agree with you that you should do whatever to make it work. Sometimes it just doesn't work. The unwillingness to discuss problems is something I am sure some here will blame on him being German but it is actually something I have encountered many times, particularly in men, and they were not German.

By the way, just so you know, I am German, so I have not been in the same situation as you in Germany, but I thought, maybe this would be helpful anyway.
Good luck. Try to work on your German, that is something you can do to lessen your isolation a bit. I know it takes time, but the other option is waiting for other people to change which is something you have no control over whatsoever.

Hi akanksha,
I know where you're coming from. I've been in Germany for just over a year and a half (6 months Munich, 6 months Stuttgart, then back to Munich 6 months ago). I have some good friends here but we're still a bit too new to each other to be close friends like I had back in the U.S..

During my first 6 months in Munich I dated a German girl (Nina) who I really liked, though she wound up breaking up with me (via e-mail, which I received at work--that was harsh). We actually remained friends and some months later the topic of the breakup came up and she told me that one of the primary reasons was she didn't think I was confident enough. As an example she cited exactly the situation you describe: sometimes we would go out with her friends (she was in Munich just 4 months longer than I and didn't know too many people from here, though sometimes friends from her hometown would go out with us) and I would have trouble staying in the conversation and would sometimes wind up left out. She seemed to blame this on a lack of confidence whereas I would have attributed it to lack of ability--though the exact people in question are most likely the biggest factor. Unlike your situation this didn't let this dissuade me from going out with them, but that could have been because I was still in my "honeymoon" period with Germany.

In the meantime my German has gotten to the point where I'm generally able to go out with my German friends and German roommate (and her friends) and stay involved. I'm also prone to corny jokes which are pretty easy to communicate in German as well, but I do benefit from the fact that no one in these circles speaks with too much Bayerisch. But I would say there are still times when I'm sandwiched out a bit. It seems to depend a lot on the people, though: those with whom I find it easier to talk (and who make a point not to exclude me) are generally the type of people I'd be talking to anyway if we happened to have the same mother tongue; the others are people I probably wouldn't normally associate with.

Your situation is a tough one. I would say that the best idea is probably to just keep going out with them. Right now it sounds like you and Hans are on a bit of a "tit for tat" stint and that can only lead to more unpleasantness. Make an effort to be involved and sometimes you'll find people who want to include and even accommodate you. Not always, but sometimes. Make sure you and Hans sit together and when you have problems keeping up with the conversation asking him quietly what's being discussed--if he's a nice guy I'm sure he wouldn't mind filling you in, and perhaps the short aside will prompt the others to also bring you up to speed.

If you're in a relationship you're going to have to be willing to interact with your partner's acquaintances, and vice versa. The language barrier does give you a setback but it can also be an advantage, especially when meeting new people who are interested in your unique experiences and that you're not another "boring German". So I'd say give it a try and turn things around.

You didn't mention where you're from. How are things with Hans otherwise? Common interests?

I always found this to be helpful: http://www.rentagerman.de/

This is probably not very politically-correct advice but hell, here goes:
Work on your German.
No, not your German guy, your German language skills.

While it is nice for some of his pals to help you out by speaking more simply or in English, frankly you're not who they came to see.
And on a night out, folk want to relax, chat to their friends and stuff. And often in their own language - why else would TT have so many events? It should be effortless and for many the last thing they want to do on a night out would be to sit there and make big allowances for someone who might not join in.
Do you try speaking German with them? Do you make an effort? Are you friendly or just intimidated?
Because from your text (all the info we have here) you don't sound like you are here: your real friends are elsewhere, your language skills prevent you making friends, you are wistful for your single life. It's barriers, barriers, barriers.
I'm being Devil's Advocate here, but while his pals may never be your pals (and vice-versa) effort belongs on both sides.

Of course, if you've tried all this, perhaps they really are miserable bastards.
Then I'd say to take the conversation out, maybe by meeting and doing something sporty together.
Because his pals probably aren't going to go away, you just have to find a way that works for you (which could include ending the relationship).

PS screw doing everything to make it work - that's the road to being miserable right there

Yes the www.rentagerman.de website really helped me. Here are some of the reviews that people wrote on the website:

Samantha F., 27 (London):
“I had such a lovely evening with the German and my mates: After the pub, we went dancing. My friends were thoroughly impressed by the German moves. I was gobsmacked when the German even cleaned my house the next day, before I was awake! Will definitely rent again.�
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Hagen, 58 (New York):
“After dinner, we watched TV together with the entire family. Suddenly the German started to cry. It was such real and pure emotion. I’d never seen this before. The support package cheered him up again and we read German poems together ‘til 3 am. Even Grandma stayed up and enjoyed the exotic sound of words like "Rasenmäher, Motorsäge or Solidargemeinschaft". Rented again, before our new friend left.�

Hope that this helps.

There is something fundamental in this situation which should works in your favor: you didn't move to Germany for your partner. This can be something insurmountable.

I think that the basic issue here is not how you manage your respective social lives, it's compromise and who needs to make sacrifices in the relationship (for a change). Every relationship is different and people get upset about different things, however if this is a major bone of contention to you, you need to put your foot down and gently make him understand that this is unacceptable. Bear in mind obviously that there are going to be major differences regardless even if things go well between the two of you. How you actually show your displeasure is another issue, however his reaction should give you an indication of his overall attitude towards the relationship and if things can work out in the long run.

Is it middle class and British?

Dunno, never been, maybe best i don't . .

I think in this case, love will be enough. You just need to set some structure to your social lives so that everyone is treated equally. Spend time alone with your English-speaking friends (come out to Toytown events, it's great for meeting people), and let Hans spend time with his German ones. When you go out together, alternate between going out with Germans (where you will have to do your best to speak German and, if it gets to be too much, speak up and be rude and tell them you need them to make an effort to communicate with you) -- and going out with English-speakers. Also make sure to go out just the two of you sometimes! If you are out with the Germans and they don't accommodate your poor German (and I agree that you need to try to learn as fast as you can) -- turn to the guy (or girl, or group) on the other side of you and see if you can strike up a conversation with them in English. That'll get Hans making more of an effort to keep you involved in the conversation!

One thing that made my ears perk up, however, was that Hans doesn't want to resolve conflicts and uses every argument as proof that the two of you fight too much. Do be alert to the possibility that he may be emotionally exiting the relationship. Or, he is bad at conflict resolution, which is also crap.

In my experience with my ex-krautette, not wanting to "resolve conflicts" and "bad conflict resolution" were the result of her hiding her head in the sand because she knew that dealing with problems meant having, in all likelihood, to make adjustments (i.e. compromise). Why change the status quo if things suit you as they are?

While I do generally agree with you that learning German is the best thing she can do and that effort should be made by both sides, Katrina, it shouldn't be too much of an effort to speak with less dialect or slow down your speech just a little bit (of course only if you are willing to). No, they did not come to see her, but I would like to think that the girlfriend or boyfriend of someone would be welcomed into a group, even if their German is not quite up to par.
Of course I don't know if she is actually making an effort, or just leans back as soon as she doesn't understand a word and feels sorry for herself for the rest of the evening. I hope you don't (@OP), living in a country where you are just learning the language is bound to be frustrating at times, but don't let that discourage you or you'll never learn it.

Hi,

I know, maybe not exactly, but to a great extent what you are talking about. I moved to Germany 8 months ago to be with my husband whom I met in Australia. We both knew it would be hard to live in Germany because of the extra effort he would have to make to help me getting around here and also because of the language barrier for me and lack of social contacts. That was easier said than done. We also had lots of fights like yours and yes, it is tiring. My suggestion is to keep learning German. It really helped me and I have noticed that Germans tend to be more accepting and approachable when you speak or try to speak German. Hope I am not generalizing here. You also need to talk and agree how to do this "friend" thing because Hans is right when he says to you why should he bother when you wont bother; but what is wrong is to use it as a way to get back at you. If you make an effort to go out with his friends then so should he try to go out with you and yours. Its also a good idea to talk about it at a neutral time if you know what I mean; not when he says "why should I bother?" when you already have a situation one is bound to be defensive and communication more difficult. We had to sit down and say, ok we are going to talk about this or it will ruin us. And really, its not a big thing!

It's funny that many Germans behave as though they don't understand the difference between not being able to speak the language well enough and lack of confidence/mental prowess. I was in a similar situation a number of times, especially early on, with certain friends of my husband. They knew I didn't speak the language, yet not being able to understand them and express myself fluently was still somehow perceived as a character flaw of mine. Luckily, the friends we made together (and this takes concentrated effort! they don't fall from trees, you have to make a plan) are generally more sympathetic, come from a variety of backgrounds and have studied several foreign languages themselves, so they don't get deeply embarrassed and ignore me when I need clarification or make a mistake.

But in the beginning I spent many a long afternoon and evening talking to my wineglass and smiling meekly at all the fun they were having, then later crying at my husband for not helping me understand. Classic situation: someone tells a funny joke or makes an interesting observation about something I am interested in, and my husband turns to me: "Did you get it?" "No." "Oh, that's too bad. It was really good." And then he just jumped right back into the conversation and I never knew what the hell they were talking about. Assuming your situation is similar, aside from hammering a little more sensitivity into your boyfriend's head, the only real antidote to this is, as Mariposa said, learning German as best and quickly as you can. Sorry.

It's a ROI thing, Mariposa. She's said they did it for a bit and then they stopped. Yes, they could be a shower of bastards, but it could well be that their return wasn't worth the effort.
While it is lovely giving folk support and all that, sometimes in TT-Land thinking about the person's own role is often missed.
Sometimes it isn't them, it's you.
If the original poster can put their hand on their heart and say to themselves that they have tried, then fair dues, but it is a step that is often lacking.

You are right. Somehow I always assume that the person complaining about an issue has actually made an effort before they come asking for help. But it is true that his friends might think she isn't making any effort at all, or not enough of an effort.

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you are meant to spend the rest of your lives together.

Not saying you and Hans are doomed, but if things are becoming more negative than positive, there's only so much you can do to fix the situation. I'd try talking to him at a time where you aren't facing the decision of what to do socially. Maybe a good compromise would be to have just a couple of his friends over for dinner. With fewer people, they are more likely to try and talk with you and there won't be a lot background action and noise to make it difficult. Do the same with your friends.

I haven't really bothered to read most of the original post. But I did read your questions. The answers I will give to you on the remarkably small chance you're going to be clever enough to follow them through.

1) Have more sex , call it love-making if you like.
2) Wear nice underwear , alternatively don't wear any.

I am learning German -- but I'm sure many of you have experienced how hard it can be, after a 10 hour workday to try and get your head around German grammar. And I moved here for my job so I feel like that needs to take precedence over learning German.


Yes! According to Hans, I speak German 'well' for someone who's been here for this long and he thinks that I'm just not confident. It's partially true because when I'm with people for whom German is a second language I can talk easier, but it is partially false because the reason that I can speak to German learners is precisely because the German they speak is simple.


Speak German? More like stammer German, I think. I can't say I talk too much, I do a lot of nodding and asking Hans to translate bits I don't understand. His former schoolmates are cool with this -- they even stop conversation sometimes so he can translate and I can catch up. His newer buddies, not so much.


Well, Hans has no trouble pointing out my own role in the problems -- some of which are accurate, some not so much.

Ok, Try starting to speak in your native language (other than English) loud over the phone for at least half an hour and in between crack some jokes and laugh loudly (if you cant crack, then just laugh).

Believe me it will help a lot. If you dont have any one to talk to and if it is costing more to call to your continent away, then I will give my number and my son 3 yr old can happily talk to you, though you wont understand anything. He mixes English, German and if mood goes some native words.

So good luck. I will sure advise you to make friends (real friends) and for a break hangout with them (at least weekly once), if your love is true then he will surely show some interest to join you other wise think in the other lines that he can manage to live without you.

And a sincere tip, since he is a German he might have had 100% experiences with rude and aggressive behavior of some German women, and may be he is missing that in you, so dont always be defensive but sometimes offensive as well.

Hope it helps.

regards

By the way as your name (ID) Akanksha - u need to have some "desire"

As with many other TTers, my husband and I are both native E speakers living in D-land. He speaks fluent German; I don't. I think that makes our situations gleich. After 1.5 years here, we have many, many acquaintances but almost no friends. We meet people together and on our own and sometimes get invited / invite people out. If I don't feel like going with Mr. BF because of language issues, I never say that. I just tell him to go on and have a great time. However, for my own sanity, I usually go with him just for the teensy bit of social interaction that I will get to enjoy. The more I go, the more German I pick up, and the more I can participate in future outings.

My advice: Go out with him even if the people involved aren't good friends. There's no rule saying you have to sit around with them the whole evening, especially in a bar setting. Find someone else to talk to.

LOL... I already do that !


I do... I have a desire to make this better and that's why I turned to TT. And honestly? I feel a lot better already after reading these posts, even if they say totally different things at some points

I am under the impression that if it's truly love, if he's totally into you, the language barrier should be his problem, not yours. You're the one learning. You need to remind him that learning German can take YEARS for some people. (I learned Spanish easily along with Italian, but German? nfw. alot more difficult for me). If he's totally into you, he would make sure that you are never left out of a conversation and I mean never. Just as you would never leave him out of a conversation that was completely in your native language. It's just a sign of respect with the ONE YOU LOVE.

For example, picture a country where both of you are not native speakers. You'd probably help each other out if one of you learns a word or two and will share that. You would be learning as in a partnership. Living in your partner's native country is a disadvantage for you and he's not seeing that.

Finding couples that share your interests is difficult regardless of what country you live in. Some people are lucky to find that with other couples.

One thing I've learned over the years in relationships...as another poster suggested, just because you love each other doesn't mean you should be together (now or forever). If you are fighting a lot, it could be a sign of a fundamental weakness in the foundation of your relationship. The key to keep from hating each other is knowing when to give up for both of your sakes.

Two people that really love each other need honesty, respect and communication for a relationship to work. Speak up!

not @ moctoj2 alone
Sorry, I am going to come out and say that the "Love conquers all" crap...daydream... doesn't work all the time...I keep reading it on this damn board...ok I said it now bye bye.

ahem...bad day

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Good point that they need to work together and support one another, but it's not his total responsibility to keep her in the loop. Being in a similar situation myself, it doesn't help at all if the friends don't give a hoot if she can't keep up. And it really does get taxing with the boyfriend having to stop, explain and keep going then stopping again. It's hard, but it's called a language barrier for a reason. If you're going to stick together, you have to work on it.

But the overall question was about friendships: get yourself out to some TT events, down a few drinks and you'll be BFF with everyone.

why doesn't he go out with you instead of acquaintances? If all your events involve having to have someone's friends along then maybe its a bit of a non-starter

It doesn't. We go out on our own rather regularly but obviously you still need to associate with other people!

Your German Skills aside dear, I'm not one to judge because my German is horrible. I speak it as much as I can though and if I get any guff off anyone I politely tell them this isn't my native language and if they want we can speak English. This is usually enough for them to put up with my horrible german and offer a more polite correction of how I say something.

What should be the most concerning to you here is that your Hans doesn't want to work out the conflicts in your relationship. If you've talked about marriage and children you may want to leave it to just that for now - TALK. I am not sure if you have ever been married before, but its a hell of alot harder than learning a foreign language. It's really important to find ways of handling your problems as a couple before you are married so you are prepared for the new challenges that will arise after the wedding bells, i.e., In-laws, children, bills, money. I have a couple friends who got married because they thought it would bring them closer to who they were with and that the other party would change their ways. This is a fairy tale made up in the land of smoke and mirrors. If your partner is treating you bad in a relationship its because they don't respect you, until they do that behavior isn't going to change.

Maybe you should approach Hans and tell him you are sorry for making the sarcastic remarks about those people not being his friends - and tell him you will work on it. Tell him what bothers you about the way he is acting without using profanity or sarcasm. Tell him what bothers you about how his friends act around you. Tell him what areas of your relationship you would like to fix. Tell him how you would like to work on getting along with his friends, and you would like him to get along with yours. Ask him what he doesn't like about the way you are acting. Ask him what areas of the relationship he would like to improve.

If he just gets angry and starts being abusive then let him know that isn't how you want to have this conversation and suggest a day or so to cool off and try again and set up another time. If he flat out refuses to talk then don't push him. Thank him for his time, tell him you are going to get off the phone now (nicely) and to please call you when he would like to discuss those things. Then leave him alone and let him call you. If he doesn't call you back then it wasn't meant to be.

devil is right. EB time to close up shop on this topic. At the end of the day everything is just talk (as previsouly mentioned). While some people can know when they have found the one ater the first time of meeting them, for most it takes longer. As you are quite busy in other aspects of your life, i.e.: work, learning the language, what not), focus on you for bit for a second and see what you really need for yourself and what really makes you happy. Once you know that if Hansi is not up to snuff then no use crying over spilled milk. There are plenty of others out there so no need to go down the road of fighting all the time. At the end of the day not worth since one or both of you seem unwilling to change without some 'gentle prodding' from the other.

So, this is where you're at after only 6 months together? You're not even living together yet. Do you really think things are going to better from this point? I honestly don't.

It's not a popular opinion here but I think you've invested enough time in this relationship and should move on. If not you're just going to get more frustrated and miserable. Relationships shouldn't be a hassle, and if your single time looks and feels better than your time with Hans, then you should be single.

and I bet if you thought long and hard about it, you don't really love him that much anyway.

If you (still) have not had enough, here's my two pence :-

I am sick and tired on the fact that the language barrier is the biggest impediment to any relationship working. You have a problem with your German BF ...I am told its the the same when it comes to my German customers. Sales or Love, you cannot 'connect' if you cant speak the language.

I beg to differ. I am an expat, I do not know German. I mostly love this people and the country. I follow the language and genuinely show my interest to get integrated to this culture and society so long I am here. Sincerity of purpose, that the end-all. With all the 'danke schoens', 'bitte schoens', 'entschuldigungs' and 'tute mier leits' spoken at the drop of a hat, politeness is still miles away from some Germans. These are the people who disregard your presence and switch to their native lingo, think the borders of Germany are the end of the world and your survival is undeserved if you are not up-to-speed with their Germanness. Their outlook of belonging to a 'Global Village' possibly stretches as far as our U-Bahn network :-)

Compare this - Holger is the husband of my wife's teacher at Volkhochschule Stuttgart - we are still the best of friends even after coming to Munich. Wapler was my houseowner one year back, we still converse on email. I write disjointed Deutsche (Google in alt-tab) and he replies in equally bad English. I have stopped seeing Rieger due to location contraints, but he regularly enquiries about my cholesterol levels. While on a long and tiring 'Microsoft Live Meeting' session, my customers bring so many welcome digression that gets us close enough to swap a 'business lunch' for a family dinner.

And I am not a lucky bastard. To repeat a cliche, it is about individuals. You get along only with like minded individuals ( German or no-German ).
I hope love in your case is not an euphemism for only satisfying each others libido. So long as both of you cannot sensitise each others culture, no amount of sexy lingerie ( with or without ) can get you guys go along.

An early realisation would save you from a long disappointment and depression. Dont wanna be pessimitistic, but having seeing many Germans going out of the way to be so open and progressive, the current prognosis does not look encouraging to me.

I get the message. Dump him. *Sigh* . How stupid of me to have thought that I finally found someone I could be happy with.

I was pretty much in the same situation one year ago. I was completely in love with a German girl. We tried to be together but things just didn't work. I didn't have my own social circle so I pretty much depended on her for socialization. Which lead to many fights between us. There are also a lot of cultural things which stand in the way.

In the end we stopped the relationship in great pain. But the conclusion was not that we aren't good for each other, but it was basically the wrong time, or perhaps the wrong place. So we turned our trust into a friendship, which we still hold. She is the closest person I ever had in my life, and she remains so as a friend.

Right now I have my own friend circle, and my German is fluent. If I look back at it, it was really unhealthy for me to depend on her. There was no balance in the relationship, as she was taking too much responsibility. So it was a wise thing to stop it. And the time for us to be together hasn't come yet. Or it will never come. Sad, but that's life.

This was what happened to me. It won't be the same way it turns out for you. But I wish you good luck.

You got it after 32 posts, not bad. Just look out for new friends and attend TT events. Good Luck!

I'm not trying to be mean when I ask this, but are you really young ? are both of you really young ? I'm not a leathery old bat or anything trying to say you're a silly kid if you are. I first got married when I was 20 It didn't last because I was a silly girl looking for someone to "complete me, and be happy with" and as it turns out he didn't and neither will anyone else. I also got married because I wanted to get married, couldn't wait to be a princess and have a big expensive wedding. And since he was willing I did it. Not my proudest moments.

I got married again at 26 to a man who is my total opposite it many ways and on occasion pisses me off so badly I feel the need to strangle him - but I didn't marry him because he made me happy or because he completed. Why I did is a whole other topic and a whole other thread.

With all that aside, what I'm trying to say is, as you get older and experience more in your life you learn so much about yourself and what makes you happy today isn't going to be what makes you happy 1 or 5 years down the line. Perhaps you should rethink why you are in a relationship and why you look for one in the first place because if its just to be happy with someone you're going to be very disappointed.

I was thinking about this yesterday.
Thankfully Johnny English is skiing as he'd kick massive holes in this one, but hey ho:
I have this suspicion that happily wanting to strangle people on occassion is a pretty good indicator of love.
Because I could gleefully throttle my family quite often whilst loving them to pieces.
So someone who isn't a relative that makes you feel that way, well, it's good. Obviously as long as you don't actually strangle them. Or feel like that all the time. Obviously.
Guess it is due to depth of feeling really. I dunno, I'm rambling. I need caffeine.

This probably has nothing to do with this thread though. The post before this is a bloody good one in any case.

Would agree with that Katrina. I could quite happily throttle my husband on occasion.
But, to the OP. I don't think many people suggested dumping him straight away. What people did suggest, is that you need to sit down and tell him what you told us, how his behaviour makes you feel, what you feel you can do to make the situation better (the best way of improving your german obviously is to spend time with german speakers, so going out with the friends who won't speak english to you is probably a good idea in the long run...), and what you want from him.
If however, you aren't prepared to do this, and to work damned hard at making the relationship work (because relationships aren't easy by half, and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying), then maybe it isn't as important to you as you think it is...

Such an excellent point.

I agree with all of the last few posts. I'm getting a bit off topic now, but it actually annoys the heck out of me when I talk to people or couples who claim, 'Oh we never fight, that's just a silly waste of time, we just talk it out and resolve everything peacefully.' WTF? Either they are totally lying, or they're in some sort of bizarre repressed denial. Or they're clones of each other. And what fun is that?

Frankly I think if you never fight, it's probably because there's not much there worth fighting for.

As Rilke said... For one human being to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of all our tasks; the ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is but preparation.

I would suggest to put him under a test. The best thing would be to change the entire location to were you are at advantage, like go to your place which is a continent away, were you speak local language (different from English, if he speaks English), keep on translating things for him when necessary. So just try to notice his reactions to different scenarios and see if he is coping up well and also see his tolerance level just for the sake of you (this is important).

You should at least expect some tolerance level (if not to the extent as yours) from him in the above mentioned scenarios.

Hmmm... love issues aside, I know about the difficulty in making friends outside of work/exisiting social circle here. I've been half thinking about proposing a girly shopping + coffee session, or a girly movie session - simply to get to know more people (restaurant meetups can be a bit loud [I have a small voice!] and it's hard to talk to everyone at the table). I fancy something a bit more...dunno... is "chilled" the right word? Would anyone else be interested?

Freckle

I would be but I'm not in Munich right now. So hopefully you'll find some others who are interested.

Irish pubs are full of friendly ppl, drop into Kilians in town and have a drink and chat with loads of ppl!

might see me in there...dont trust my photo!

WTF?! Fighting can actually end a relationship too. Maybe if a couple rarely fights it could also because they're both happy with the status quo, and actually could think alike. I agree though a totally 'fightless' relationship is pretty unheard of, and IMO probably not healthy.

Katrina - Well I have a strange relationship with my husband. I have never actually strangled him with the intention of causing bodily harm, but on occasion I've put my hands around his neck (when we're laughing) and pretend to. We have alot of fun together and it helps that we're both clowns.

In fact just last night, I could of sworn there was a spider on the ceiling and I made him cart out the vacuum cleaner and low and behold there was one !!! and he starts jumping on the bed and dancing around with the suction hose and I've got a paper cylinder from wrapping paper and I'm trying to swat this damn thing and he's trying to suck it up. We had an argument about me not being able to swing a paper tube to save my life and then I told him he sucked ha ha but not with the vacuum. This became heated and I started hitting him with the paper tube and he was trying to suck my hair into the vacuum. Then the spider lowers itself down and gets on him and he's flipping out like a girl so I started hitting him harder trying to squish the spider. Eventually I hit the spider off of him and he sucked it up with the vacuum. A team effort it was.

I don't advocate spousal abuse, but damn its fun.

I love stories like that - that's a perfect start to the weekend right there!

CRUELTY TO SPIDERS! Spiders are your friends - you should not kill them. At least remove them (using a glass or similar) & release them outside.

Many many many years ago I attended a lecture by a then well-know UK naturalist & the thing that stuck was "there are at least 3 spiders in every room".

People unknowingly eat spiders while they are sleeping. Fact.

Gonzo, if Freckle wants a quiet place to have a conversation, I am not sure that Kilian's is the right place...

Maybe some people don't argue and fight because they dislike it, shy away from confrontation, or don't see the point and honestly can just talk things out. I know I'm one of those people, and whilst it doesn't make me better in any way, it's just a different approach. What's healthier? Well I'm not in denial about things and I don't raise my blood pressure by arguing. But for those of you with more fiery temperaments, maybe you need to argue to be more of a balanced person, i.e. get it all out in the open, then you can calm down. Different folks for different strokes. But to call ppl annoying and repressed or even boring is really lame.

Different strokes for different folks indeed. Perhaps the problem is that the people I personally know (the ones I was referring to, anyway) who claim never to fight truly are boring and repressed. Doesn't mean everyone is and I didn't mean to imply that or cause offence.

I just simply don't believe in such a thing as a conflict-free relationship, and was trying to make the point that a bit of work, a bit of putting yourself out there and possibly in an uncomfortable situation, openly sharing your feelings rather than sweeping things under the rug, is necessary. While constant, unrelenting conflict is tiresome and generally unhealthy, it's also just kind of amazing to me how many people seem to erroneously think that if you have conflicts it's just because you're not with the 'right' person and should give up and move on. Or that by ignoring problems they will just go away on their own, which I myself have been guilty of on many occasions.

And to bring this all back on topic: some of the folks on this thread just seemed very quick to say 'dump him', and I disagree with that based on what I read about the situation.

Edit: and speaking of the 'Is love enough' question... it's so hard to know when to throw into the towel, and when 'trying to work things out' becomes 'hanging onto a bad relationship'. Would make for a whole other topic.