The 'cushy' lifestyle of EPO employees

My attorney offered me to join them based purely on arguments I presented to an examination. I'd like to think the reason I declined was because I prefer sailing on the ship rather than standing on the comfort of the shore, but can you really see me in pink shirts or yellow ties... or even ties? I didn't thunk so. I am an artisté. Maybe I should cut my ear off as a sign of my madness.

Alison Brimelow has probably frequented this site herself. Does this "cushy lifestyle" refer to the average working day in the EPO or the manner in which disposable income is disposed of outside the office?

JE, that's a hell of a range. Ask them what you get for the £10 search.

I just checked Keydeck. £10 is for the "Nigerian" country search. I just need to deposit the £10 into their bank account and give them my full bank account numbers, PIN codes, TAN numbers and tell them whether I keep my spare cash under the mattress or in the cookie jar in the kitchen.

£25,000 is for the "Lichtenstein" country search. For this one I need to deposit the £25,000 into their bank account which is guaranteed secret and 100% refundable - unless by chance of one of their employees gets a better cash offer than his regular salary, in which case I am fucked.

In your opinion would an individual with, for example, ~6 years post-doctoral experience (medical research), English native speaking, not so brilliant German and bugger all fluency in any other languages, stand a chance when applying?

What about biochemistry? I'm asking for a friend! She speaks French too!

My personal feeling is that if someone can't figure out for themselves whether or not they would have a chance at a particular job then that person doesn't belong in that position. Always aim high and if they see the worth in you they'll take you. If not then you've wasted very little.

Good advice there from the man.

p.s. My bins were a bit late being emptied this week Keydeck, so please start your rounds a little earlier next time.

Sorry boss, the piebald was lame so pulling the cart took longer than usual boss. Sorry sur.

Does he do tarmac too?

Ah jayz, shure we could throw down a new driveway for ye at the weekend sur. Not a bodder, not a bodder.

you´ll need to check if your technical field has current vacancies.
as to the languages that´s also there somewhere on the site too.
plus you need to belong to a nationality that is one of the EPO member states (all on the site too)
good luck to all

Hello, I am new here and although this is an old thread, I hope someone will read my post.
I am a patent examiner in Canada, but I was born and lived in Italy most of my life, so I am still an Italian citizen and I am considering coming back to Europe. To do so, I am thinking of applying for a job at EPO as patent examiner.
Because of the above, I have a few questions.
How is health care for expats? Can we walk in to a specialist's clinic as German citizens do? I mean, how does it work for expats in Germany?
You all talk about competitive salary for EPO examiners. How much would it roughly be after paying pension plan, health insurance and so on?

Thanks!

1. Of course you can just walk into a clinic like the Germans do. They haven't had parallel healthcare for foreigners since the early 1940s. (Although you're always meant to go to your local doctor and get a transfer to a specialist.)
2. If you're unmarried without children, expect to take home a little over half of your income. See the numerous other threads started by North Americans who genuinely wonder whether their €50,000 income will be enough to scrape by on.

look on the EPO website to check if you are an appropriate candidate. you are also able to directly contact present examiners where you can ask your more specific questions.
good luck.

how is your french and German? you need to be fluent in two of the three official languages and have a good knowledge of the third (at least that's what it says on the website).

All doctors here run their own businesses. Patients are insured by either state-run or private insurance companies. Some doctors only take private patients. As an EPO employee you would be insured by their own health insurance scheme which would count as a private insurance so you have good cover and access to doctors.

The net salary after the small amount of deductions is quite good so i've heard but depends on how much experience you have and whether you are married or single etc.



this is not true for the EPO. STB, stick to talking about what you know. Maybe someone from the EPO can comment and clarify but I believe they quote (almost) net salaries as there are no payroll deductions in the classic German sense. From these "net" salaries they make small deductions for healthcare etc but not to the same scale as is normal for German. As an EU institution the EPO then makes tax payments to the relevant member countries based on the number of employees they have from each EU country but as an employee you don't see any of this.

Thanks for your help!


Well, my French and my English are excellent. In Canada I am considered perfectly bilingual, both in writing and orally. My German is not so good though. I took a couple of courses a few years ago, but I cannot have a technical conversation in German yet. I can order a meal, book a hotel room, describe my house, etc.
So I am not sure I would pass the interview...

Also, I wonder whether they would bother having me over there for an interview (after all I am in Canada), even if I am definitely experienced, at least I think... I have a PhD in organic chemistry and I am currently senior patent examiner here in Canada. I am knowledgeable in the Canadian patent law and in the PCT regulations, I have examined several PCT applications, both chapter I and II, I am pretty good at rebuttals of patent attorneys arguments, I am familiar with the EPO way of prosecuting a case, since I use epoline on a daily basis, etc.

But I am really wondering whether they would call over someone from so far...

Oh well, I guess I just have to give it a try!

I would say just to apply. they will let you know quickly if you're not a suitable candidate.
good luck!

the application process at the EPO is tedious to say the least. It can take months between applying and hearing from them. when you you get invited for an interview it will be at their convenience. Then, if you are successful in the interview, you have to go for a medical prior to the offer being confirmed. I've been told that the whole process can take about 9 months between application and starting the job. Not very practical if you still live in Canada. If you are serious about working for them, I'd arrange some sort of work here in Munich in the meantime to tide you over.

btw, just a disclaimer, I don't actually work for the EPO so I'm not 100% certain that what I've written is correct, it is just what I've heard from friends who have gone through the process.

the first part of the 'selection process' is done quite quickly, so if the formal requirements for the post are not met (ie. nationality, skills, qualifications etc) candidates are usually informed their application has not been successful quite soon.

the next step would then be an invitation to an interview. it is common that candidates apply from other countries, the EPO is quite used to it! the interview, tests, and medical are then all done on the same day, meaning travel is only necessary once. and a budget is given to cover travel expenses (I THINK it is about 1000€).

it can take some time to hear if your interview has been successful, so therefore best to fly back home in your case and carry on in your current position until you've heard if you've got a job here! in which case you'd have plenty of time to hand your notice in at the Canadian Patent Office. relocation costs are also covered under a budget too. a lot of assistance & advice is given to new employees relocating from other countries.

good luck, and send me a pm if you need further advice! can you let me know your technical field?

@Moonboot, is this what you were asking?

sort of, probably it's enough, cheers

Another question. What is the medical exam about? Blood tests to see whether you have HIV and stuff?

I am going to get my diplomas scanned and start the application process...I am still doubtful about my German skills...
I will get my course books and see whether I can refresh them and maybe improve a bit!

Thanks to everyone!
I hope to be hired and start posting as an expat living in Germany soon!

It's because the EPO offers private health insurance. It really is excellent coverage and includes dentists, opticians etc (though sometiems just up to 80% of the bills). The EPO will not hire those who will probably drain the system as they are really unhealthy. For example, a friend of mine who was obese didn't pass the medical for a permanent position so she remained a contractor until she achieved and maintained a healthier weight.

Wow! I wonder what they do if you become seriously hill after you have a permanent position! I would consider the above a type of discrimination!

It does seem weird, but once you are in, you are in and they have to take care of you no matter what. That is why the screening is so strict.

Well, so to work there I need to:

• know at a working level three languages
• know very well a technical field
• be a EU citizen
• be healthy

I should be ok with the first three. As for the fourth, I am not obese, but I do wear glasses
I may still have a chance

To get back to the original post, I wonder why the EPO is singled out as being a cushy place to work. BMW, Siemens and the like have equally good conditions of employment but nobody points the finger there... wonder why? As the wife of an examiner I can say that the staff are not poorly paid but the goal posts have definitely moved over the years to the disadvantage of the staff. Salaries and perks have to be good to attract people to expatriate long-term. Expatriation is not all adventure and excitement. There are also serious downsides. Examiners have to function in three languages and be experts in their technical field. If money is the motivation (or job satisfaction) the EPO is actually quite limited - there are certainly better paid and more stimulating opportunities elsewhere for the highly qualified and ambitious. On the other hand, the administrative and maintenance staff would probably be quite hard pushed to find comparable conditions in the "real world". Good for them. Why be spiteful about their good fortune? If I were an EPO manager I would also not appreciate the wording of the google text. It is unbalanced, simplistic and not particularly fair.

Wrong! Please re-read the EPO's website. You need to be a member of an EPC member state or future member state. EPC = European Patent Convention. EU = European Union. They don't have the same member states (countries). Iirc you said you were Italian which is a member state of both so it shouldn't matter in your case but PLEASE do not confuse the EU with the EPO. The EPO is not part of the EU and is not governed by them. I'd say that you have good chances to get an interview.

See here for a list of EPC member states.

well clarified Urbs

Featherlight - afaik employees of BMW and Siemens pay taxes to the German government. EPO employees don't pay tax to the government, just an internal tax. This naturally causes a lot of jealousy and indignation.

I think the difference is the type of job. (I reckon) BMW net salaries go up quite high and exceed EPO net salaries in certain areas but the EPO offers better salaries for entry level and administrative jobs and also provides Phd grads with a much better salary than they'd get in their field elsewhere. Plus the automatic pay raises not related to performance could be considered "cushy". Possibly, there is also the misconception that EPO employees earn similar gross salaries as everyone else but just pay no taxes.

Read Required profile for an EPO patent examiner

In practice you have to be pretty much fluent in all 3 to be an examiner - also for some admin jobs where it is needed. Some get in (with difficulty) if you have a basic level of the 3rd language and if you promise to learn it either before or during your job.

in some cases though if an examiner is of a nationality that doesn't have one of the 3 official languages as its mother tongue (ie CZ or IT etc) the interviewers may be a bit more lenient, especially if they are well qualified and experienced.
in-house language courses can then be offered once such an examiner starts work.

for most administrative posts though, the 3 languages are necessary.

It's also worth highlighting that the probation period for examiners is 12 months (although to lose your position after this period might be considered careless). Good luck!

...if not, virtually impossible

I'd be interested in hearing a few (wildly exaggerated if possible) stories of EPO employees who got fired in that case.

also, probation can be extended up to 18 months if assessment has shown a new examiner 'needs more time' to adjust to the work.

In areas where it's hard to find good candidates they also interview people with a very good knowledge of two languages and when the interview went well, they offer them some time to start learning the third one with an interview in that language 4-6months afterwards.

Well, I guess I am going to freshen up my German while I wait for my application to go through. Maybe by the time they will call me, if they do, I'll be able to have a decent conversation with them in German as well. French and English are no problem at all.

if you specify on your application that you are currently learning German that will look impressive. also is Italian your mother tongue? then perhaps they are lenient on the whole German thing.
good luck.

Yes, my mother tongue is Italian

@Urban Angel: EPO employees pay "just an internal tax".. aha, and where does that go if not to the German government?

It's made up of things like health insurance, death insurance (as they call it), pension etc which goes back to the EPO since they fund all that, not the government.

The EPO employees man are rich kids in Munich..they enjoy benefits and easy working days unheard off to mere mortals working within the German system.

Dont get me started on the EPO contractors...they are on SAVAGE rates

Contractors on savage rates? Do stop talking about yourself, dear.

what a mean spirited thread. The EPO is an international body. If you want to have a relatively tax free salary, why don't you join them instead of moaning about them and turning green with envy.

F*** sure people are envious. its the nature of the human being in the capitalist system, you want what others have!!

Why are there no figures on this thread?