False rape claims

Had a friend in school that hooked up with a girl while they were both drunk and she decided the next day it was a bad idea and screamed rape.. The case eventually got dismissed because of the dozens of witnesses that pretty much saw her hands down his pants that night, but the fact that the charges were filed at all followed the poor bastard around for quite a while.

Thats another issue, the (alleged) rape victim's identity is shielded in the US, but as we learned with the duke lacrosse players the accused but not convicted can have their identities paraded on national television, be expelled form school, and pretty much found guilty without a trial.

Its important that women aren't afraid to come forward, and its important they aren't blamed for things they did not control - but I have a problem with the fact that they can use the fact that they were drunk at a time to remove all personal responsiblity from a poor choice. If I decided to get in a car while shitfaced and kill a kid, I am sure going to face the responsiblity for that poor choice.

Interesting article on the very subject from the bbc.

It seems that some women make a habit of false claims, here is just one of them:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;expand=true

and it seems that it only takes one false claim to put you in jail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...amp;ito=newsnow

true lilplatinum, but just because she had her hands down his pants does not necessarily mean she consented to sex!

i don't know about that one. Do you think she just put her hands down his pants to say "hello"?

Yes, she was 'just shaking hands' with his manhood.

I have discussed this with members of both the legal and medical professions. The "coming to your senses oh my God what have I done scenario" generally occurs at the surprisingly low blood alcohol level of 0.03. Losing your senses at that level should tell you something about yourself, alcohol and the opposite sex, namely that they don't mix.
For others: It's a tightrope walk, if you will - Don't drink enough and the court says lady, you knew what your were doing. Drink too much and the court says, lady, you were too drunk to remember these details.
In other words, don't drink and fuck. At least not with casual acquaintances.

@Rilana - I don't know, i'm of the mind that if you are grabbing a cock in a public location you have seriously diminished your credibility when you say it was forced on you 30 minutes later.

So Toytown Tuesday really is cancelled then?

Ask the members of the Duke Lacrosse team who had their lives and careers ruined before they even had a chance to start them how they feel about false rape claims.

Now there is the story of a guy who went to Worcester Tech who is currently serving a 5 year jail term. He got drunk and screwed some drunk woman at a frat party and then him and his friends made her do the walk of shame or whatever it is called. She vowed revenge and certainly exacted it...

Im fed up of girls I know saying that they got spiked when they were out, you didnt get spiked, you just got wasted. stop looking for others to blame for whatever it is that you did that now you're ashamed of. deal with it like an adult. end of

apart from that, yeah its a tricky subject

I briefly wrote about my experience with a false rape claim on the sexual abuse in teenagers is less serious thread.


To expand, the girl was working as an Au Pair and wanted to go home. She had stayed out too late at the Octoberfest and missed picking up the kids at school. She wanted to avoid getting in trouble so she concocted a story of 3 Italians picking her up at the s-bahn after octoberfest and taking her to a field and raping her. We (her friends, her host family, her own parents and even the police) were horrified and believed her (how could you not). The police couldn't even break her after 2 days of intense interrogation, it was only after a friend of the family questioned her that she finally confessed.

I met the girl through TT but I've refused contact with her since.

sure but just because you touch someone or let them touch you doesn't mean automatic agreement to sex. Otherwise where would you draw the line...she kissed me, so I knew she didn't mind being f**ed. Regardless of what she does before actual intercourse, if she then says "no" and she doesn't want it to go further, then it's no!!!

And if she was seeing touching the other parties genitals and claims 30 minutes later she said no with no witnesses around, should she be allowed to ruin his life on a my word vs. theirs basis?

Im aware that 'no means no', but what do you do when theres noone around to hear but the 2 parties involved..

ummm...there's a huge difference between kissing and having your hands down a guy's pants all night

It would help though if you women didnt play your little "but I'm a princess and must say no" games. Too often you use the word as just another hoop a man has to jump through before we can get down to the nights main attraction. Oh and if a chick is man handleing your wedding tackle she is either stupidly naive to the point of being mentaly aged 3 or gagging for a shag.

Maybe in the UK but not here. My "friend" didn't experience any negative consequences even though she wasted a lot of people's time and resources including lab tests etc. She even fingered some random guy but it didn't come to anything as far as I know.

She was asked to go home by her host family who paid for her ticket back but she wasn't forced, there were no legal consequences.

You have to start carrying "Consent Forms" and a pen. Or use your cell phone video camera to record a verbal consent.

Just realize that if alcohol is involved then you enter the "I was to drunk to give consent arena"

Simple answer - Make it illegal for women to drink alcohol.

Both victims & accused identities should be kept secret and out of the public domain. If the accused is found guilty, then release their details. If they're found not guilty then no one should ever know about it publically, though it should remain on police record along with DNA details. Any trial should be behind closed doors.

Rubbish, I have been drunk, kissed a guy and let it go further than I had expected in the heat of the moment, then came to my senses, said no that I didn't want it to go further and it was mistake and luckily for me he respected that. Should he have just had sex with me anyway, even though I didn't want that? Is that what you are saying?

Not in the UK either - it's very rare indeed to convict either alleged rapists, or alleged bullshitters. It's an enormously emotive subject and there's always so much conjecture involved...

I think you may have misread the post or not looked at the article ER... one false claim resulted in a innocent man doing time for three years.

Edit: as a caveat however only 6% of reported sexual assaults in the UK result in a conviction.

Do you realise what you have just said?

I hope the family she worked for asked her ot leave (or kicked her out). You mess up and miss picking up the kids- that sucks and the family is mad, but you all get over it as long as the kids are okay and no harm is done. Take the blame and move on- you don't make up some massive story, especially a super serious one with that blaming rape carries.
I hope the family wouldn't want her to watch their kids just for the fact of claiming rape instead of owning her own mistake.

How far?

You're right. Didn't read the link.

@Rilana--you said "no", why are you assuming this other person said "no" in lilplatinum's story?

yes, why? I didn't want it to go any further than it had already. Is that not allowed?

Rilana - think about it...

I'm not, I commented on the comment implying that it couldn't have been the case that she did because she had her hands down his pants. I have no idea whether she really did or didn't. I was merely commenting on the fact that people seemed to be of the opinion that doing that automatically means agreeing to sex or being stupid or naiive.

I don't get it either, even if you're in the middle of sex you can still choose to stop and your partner (male or female) has to comply.

If not, it's still rape.

What if a person consents to one form of sex but is then forced to perform another against their will, would we not consider that rape?

thats right, you're not allowed to be drunk in charge of a car, so women should not be allowed to be drunk and in charge of vaginas. both are equally lethal in the wrong hands

I think Rilana is right, no matter how far it goes, she has the right to say no and stop it at any point. Once a woman says no and a man decides to go ahead anyway, then it is rape. Hats off to the bloke for respecting her wishes

I also agree with that. But what if someone doesn't show that respect? You're hammered, you've consented up to a certain point and then asked him to stop, he's taken it further. What recourse is there for a woman in that situation? Is there even any point reporting it?

And that is just soo wrong! It might be something, but rape is for legal reason a bit strong don't you think? I mean there are different degrees of murder.

What if you consent to having sex with someone but the way they're doing it is really hurting you, making you bleed, damaging you. Should you not legally be able to force them to stop?

Imagine as a guy that you've consented to let a woman give you oral sex but she's using her teeth and really hurting you. Should you have to continue?

This is a tough one - essentially saying no at this stage and then reporting the rape, truthfully, the next day will wind you up with a case that simply cannot be won in open court (if the rapist denies it) - there's not a snowflake's chance in hell that the CPS would take that to court, and an even smaller chance (IMHO) of a jury convicting.

However, if you fight back, such that the attacker must use physical force to continue with the rape, there's a chance. Nevertheless, this is a slim chance indeed if you decide to be truthful and report that in the first instance you had given consent. It only takes two people on the jury to be unsure and the case will be thrown out. I find it highly unlikely that a case with those facts would ever come to trial.

Edit: @ Eurovol, no, I don't think it is - I don't see any difference at all. If you can't control yourself to that level you shouldn't be indulging in sex.

Assault would be something to charge them with, not rape.

According to some research 93% of sexual assault goes unreported but even in the scenario Tiggi outlines I feel it should be reported because it becomes rape the moment someone forces you to have sex against your will. It should not matter how far it has gone no means no, but proving you have said no becomes the difficulty just as proving sex was consentual is the difficulty if someone accuses you of rape. It is one person's word against another ones.

'She likes it a bit rough' or defences like that are, whilst predictable, relatively successful - especially given the circumstances of lots of the sex in question - it's not all lovey dovey bedroom stuff.

Yeah right. There is consensual sex and the woman says no after 15 minutes then the guy humps one or two more times past her saying no and that is rape? Think about what you are saying. This is legal stuff.

That is categorically rape eurovol. However, proving it is another matter.

You have just described rape eurovol but proving it is the crux. Fifteen minutes I would be long gone for the post coital fag at that stage

So eurovol's scenario would attract the same legal penalties as an attack out of the blue where there had never been any consent at all? (Assuming it were possible to prove it.)

Absolutely - both are rape and the (English) law sees no difference. Though in Eurovol's scenario the paradox is that it would almost certainly be harder to get a conviction. Rape of the 'drag 'em off the street and assault them' type is both rare and easy to prosecute. Date rape is relatively common and hard to prosecute.

The point is that by the time it's gone so far, it's usually his word her word, and the manhood-grabbing incident shows credible evidence that the man's word in that case has more bearing.

And new rape laws in the UK are under consideration.

Hear, hear.

All this talk about violence and signs thereof being a key conviction turner in rape cases reminds me of that scene in Life of David Gale where a student that's after revenge from him lures him into a bathroom and asks him to treat her rough, including going B-side. Anyone remember that?