Living in Cape Town, South Africa

Has anyone ever lived in Cape Town? My husband is considering a job there and I would just like to know what it is like as far as crime, good Eng/Ger. schools, and how easy it is to meet people outside expat communities.
Thanks.

I would take a look at the South African threads that are already running. I do have a mate that I worked with for years, and he has been living in Capetown for about 3 years now with his South African wife. As an expat you can take advantage of some excellent tax breaks - for up to the first 5 years you are untaxed on overseas income.

He always raves about living there, and has a new baby and 2 servants (slaves?) that live-in washing, cooking, babysitting etc.

Clearly everyone raves about the climate, the scenery, the weather, the lifestyle, the cheap cost of living.

Seems to come down for me to 1 simple question - can you live with the crime issues? Without doubt Capetown is the safest place to live in SA, but not convinced that makes it "safe". And the nature of the crime, when it hits you, does not sound great.

Is there a future in South Africa?

If I were to be offered the chance to take a decent job in Cape Town, I'd jump at it in a heartbeat. There are definite no-go areas in Cape Town but outside those areas, you're pretty safe. This in contrast to Jo'Burg where even the toniest neighbourhoods are subject to home invasions, carjackings, etc.

Tom34 does not exactly have me rushing onto the next Virgin overnighter. I reckon the culture shock of TT Munich to Capetown would be greater than say London to Capetown?

Thanks to you both.
That is my major problem with SA. From what I've seen on TV, it is like paradise, but I would be going with 3 small children and the crime factor terrifies me. Then again, we have survived Mexico City unscathed and had never once a problem with crime. But I will check out the SA thread too.

Tax free for FIVE years, no kidding?? Do tell more... What's the economy & social spirit like there? Is there a thriving culture for artists?

... edit.. looked at wiki. 19% unemployment, can't be any worse than Berlin

No not “tax free“. This is on overseas income - so if you had a business earning money in Berlin, and lived in Capetown it would be very nice thank you. If you earn your money locally in SA then you pay tax like anyone else.

My friend has a UK based business so works out great for him.






http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/so...ca/saexpat.html

Right, that's what I meant... But I'd assume that I'd probably have to pay tax to the US for what I'm earning from US sources, right? IE, the US probably doesn't have a $75K taxation base for Americans living there, like they do for Germany. Sounds too good to be true.

The Foreign Income Tax Exclusion would also apply to RSA, not just to countries with which the US has a tax treaty. US-source income would still be liable for US taxes (just like anywhere else).

From my understanding US sourced income is a nightmare 'cos the Americans never let you go, so probably stuck paying US taxes even if you lived on the moon. But you do still get that "tax free" amount I assume??? Is that the $75k of which you speak?

Would be fine if income was from a typical European country. Sounds like there might be some issues about bringing the overseas money INTO the country but of course you could
just "borrow" money to live on etc etc - doesnt sound like that is really a hurdle.

I'm no expert, and expect to learn something about it when I find an accountant shortly, but my understanding is that the US and Germany have an agreement that says anything up to 75K is not taxed in the US, though one is required to file US in any case. If such a rule exists in SA, then that'd mean no taxation whatsoever up to that amount... which sounds too good to be true.

In Germany, I believe they consider the fact that one lives here to be the deciding factor on whether one is taxed; it is not dependent upon where the actual payments are being processed.

I'm ASSUMING (hoping) that in the US I won't have to pay taxes on this amount, since I'm not living there, and will be paying taxes to Germany, but wouldn't be surprised if I'm dead wrong...


So I'm dead wrong then, huh.

If any of this is true then, when one is depositing money into an account in one country, but living in and filing taxes to another country, how does the latter verify the numbers from the former and vice versa? I'm under the impression that this information is not so readily available between the US and Europe, or, at least Germany?

http://southafrica.usembassy.gov/wwwhacs1.html


Not much help here then huh!! Above $400 and you are still paying US taxes.

So its all the same rule basically. US will leave your overseas income (e.g. Germany, South Africa etc) alone below $70,000. But if your income is generated in the USA then they get first bite.

Definitely will take this to the pros...depending on the definition of foreign earned income. While living in a foreign country I have earned income ... partially from Americans, going into a US account.

That's good and potentially bad. Good because taxes will most likely be lower for the US. Potentially bad because it will appear that I've contributed less in the form of taxes to Germany when I go to apply for a permanent visa in a few years. I'm guessing the AB takes this into consideration?

trico, to answer your original question:

I have lived in SAfrica for 30 years the last 6 being in Cape Town and only returned to UK in April 06.
I can tell you that going there with small children would be a big mistake. The crime is bad and getting worse. I have had two close friends murdered and don't know of anyone in my circle of friends who has not been robbed/highjacked or suffered first hand from crime. All my remaining friends - afriakaners as well as those of english extract - are currently planning to leave the country and go elsewhere in the world. You will probably see a big exodus of whites in 2010 when Zuma takes power. Keep in touch with the political and economic scene - you'll soon get the picture. Living there is much harder than just taking a holiday there.
Yes the cost of living is low, yes its a beautiful city but you live your life looking over your shoulder and will become paranoic about security - living behind electric fences and staying away from no-go areas. The city is like a ghost town after working hours - most folks stay lagered up at home in the suburbs.
It took be quite a while to "normalise" when I returned to Europe and enjoy living a life without fear of being attacked and robbed. By the way check out the financial benefits if thats a factor in your decision . The pay isn't all that good - you'll need costly health insurance and when your kids need educating you'll have to use a private school.
Finally, think about your kids. HIV is widespread in SA and the blacks believe that a cure is to rape a white virgin - the younger the better. There is a case of which I know where 7 black men raped a 9 month old baby! Disgusting! Do you really want to put your kids at risk? I don't think so.

Isn't this a bit stereotypical??? You are mentioning what pertains to a minority of the 'BLACK' population.

Cape Town is fabulous. We lived in Namibia for five years (2001-06), youngest daughter finished her schooling at International School there. I would say that if you can stand living in a house/apartment with security walls (ie walls + barbed or razor wire), with bars on windows and doors, plus alarm, then it is fine. You need to be able to get around the safety angle, but that can be the case in lots of places overseas. You need to be aware when you go out shopping, who is around you, where you have your bag/money etc. You can get used to it, it is just a slightly different way of thinking - I think it is a bit safer than Nam. But the scenery, countryside, beaches etc are really worth it. HIV is (I think) probably about the same as Nam, ie about 1 in 3. I would go!

Unfortunately, when you ask Saffers abroad whether they think you should settle in SA, many of them had to really convince themselves to leave the country and therefore know of everything bad to say about it and nothing good. Much like anti-smoking nazi´s who smoked before.

Anyhow, to get to your question. Cape Town is a lovely city, probably one of the loveliest in the world. It is not as dangerous as Joburg, but it´s not super-safe either. But where is other than in this bubble one calls Munich? There are rapes and murders, but they are really few and far between. The statistics generally are much worse in the "no-go" areas such as the Cape Flats and Khayalitsha. As someone has already pointed out, these areas are separated from Cape Town proper by Table Mountain, unlike Joburg where the richest and poorest suburbs lie next to each other.

There is a German school in Cape Town which also goes as far as Abitur. This will probably be your best bet if you plan on reintegrating into Germany at a later date. As far as living areas are concerned, the sought-after areas are the so-called "southern suburbs". Cape Town has become really expensive due to all the foreigners buying up property there so areas such as Bishops Court, Constantia, Hout Bay, Clifton, Camp´s Bay and Llandudno may be out of your budget. I would try to avoid Bellville and Durbanville at all costs. A good option is Somerset West or Stellenbosch although the latter is also getting extremely expensive. They lie a half-hour´s drive outside Cape Town and offer more villagy feels which would be good for younger children.

Capetonians tend to be a bit more cliquey than other South Africans. There´s a lot of old money and these days, not so old money there. It´s sort of like Munich really. Great lifestyle especially if you´re into outdoor activities. Having a 6-foot fence, 3 large dogs and bars on the windows is a small price to pay for a lot.

I have recently moved back from South Africa I was living "close" to Cape Town, I lived with my wife and son (both South African, now also living here) in a place called Strand bordering Somerset West. Somerset West has a huge population for Germans and also schooling providing German classes. We had several reasons for going back, one of them was the crime, even in the posh areas is crime, one of them was also the finance, the Rand is not doing to great (worse actually nowadays) towards the euro. But my main reason is my son, we lived in a security complex (pretty popular) and one day I found a stray bullet in my backyard on our patio, luckily I found it before he did. The area was lovely don't get me wrong, we were surrounded by mountains and the ocean was only 5 minutes away.

If you do decide to go please save up enough money to buy a car, because without a car you're basically house bound. I can give you details of a friend of mine who can speed things up with paperwork there they specialize in permits and visas and have offices opposite the Home Affairs in Cape Town.

It's a great experience to live in such a beautiful country, but I prefer living here with all the conveniences of a 1st world country/EU (public transport, being paid on time, fast internet, safe parks and LOTS of facilities for smaller children, travelling, culture, etc.).

All the best!