Boss is making employees pay for an office trip

Strange situation at the moment: I'm an employee ("wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter") of a university. For nearly two months we've been planning to have an office trip ("Betriebsausflug") tomorrow to the Tegernsee/Wallberg. Due to the weather forecast, we changed the destination at last minute (with the full agreement of our boss) to Nürnberg. Just now our boss has informed us that we must split the cost of the Bayern-Ticket among the 6 of us, which would come out to about €5 per person. This has caused a small uproar among the employees.

So I present the question to Toytown: is it reasonable for a boss to expect the employees to pay their own way on an office excursion? Though the trip isn't required, with such a small team it in effect actually is, as anyone who refuses to go over such a small sum would no doubt not look very good in the eyes of the boss. Note that there will be other costs (museum admission, food) that we will probably also have to split.

I realize that working at a university is different from working at a private company and that we are anything but flush with money. But after seeing our boss go to attend conferences all over Europe (just last week he bounced between Munich, Frankfurt, and Paris), I don't see how these €30 for a Bayern-Ticket should be so hard to come by. And that's what makes the situation so difficult: the fact that it is such a small amount of money makes it more aggravating for us because we're feeling nickeled-and-dimed, but at the same time it's so little per person that we don't have much justification for refusing.

Thoughts?

Note: leaving the office in a couple of minutes so I won't be able to respond to the thread until tonight, but I thank you all in advance for your input.

Funny you ask this now. This was in Sunday's Tagesspiegel (if you don't read German it says you have to pay for voluntary betriebsausfluege):

Wer zahlt den Betriebsausflug?

You don't have to pay the 5 Euro. Instead, keep your cheap &^# at work. God knows, if you bitch about 5 Euro, you need all the hours you can get. And yes, it's normal to pay to go on a company trip (even in non-university jobs).

I have never paid to go on a company trip (or even to the Oktoberfest) and I've been on a few in my time.

Is he the cheap one or is his boss? It's not really the money, rather the principle of the situation.. if this is meant to be an office excursion and team building is somehow involved, I don't see why the boss can't just fork out the cash. As he said, it won't just be the ticket they'll have to split, but also probably food..

I definitely think that he should pay it, problem is, what can you do about it?

Not so, I've been on works outings almost every year since '84 and all admission fees, fares etc have been paid by the company. The only things we ever pay for are our own food and drink.

I've been on lots of works ski trips where we've had to pay for everything except the booze in the evening. Even that had to be somewhat curtailed because some people got carried away and started ordering drinks that they would never normally drink, just because they were free. Having said that, things like Oktoberfest visits are always paid for by the firm, but I still have to get my drunken self there and back at my own cost!

You guys could steal some fancy-schmancy scientific laser beam device from the lab and sell it on ebay to cover the cost of the travel, steak dinners, and copious amounts of alcohol you will inevitably be consuming to blot out the fact that your boss is such a douche-nozzle.

we have to pay for our company trips if we decide to go, but my impression is that it's no big deal for people here, when you refuse to go. 5€ or 30€ would be quite a lot of money for me, i would rather save for other things. i don't earn so much that it would seem a trivial amount. so i think doing a good job on a regular basis and keeping a good relationship with your boss and everyone there, but being honest and saying you don't want to go or you don't want to spend so much money, is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of or worry about.

Think i'll come back then, we have to pay for all of ours!

Where I currently work we don't have a Betriebsausflug, but the departmental Christmas lunch had to be paid for by the employees (about £30 a head). But I have worked in other companies where it was paid for by the company - so always depends on the company policy.

I think that's a load of bollocks. I would be horrified if my company expected me to pay towards a company trip. I have been on loads - most companies do them once a year and I've never had to contribute a penny. At my current company we don't really do trips but we have lots of parties and a trip to Oktoberfest where they give us vouchers to buy a couple of beers and something to eat.

Not in any company I've ever worked for. And nobody I know, either. Maybe you just work for cheap-ass companies (or bosses).

I cant ever remember paying for a company trip out, even as a contractor and even when as an invited guest on skitrips with other companies, but its only 5 euro so not a big price to pay, it might be a budget thing and he would have to take an age to get the extra cash.

My current employer (which is an international IT firm) does not have a Betriebsausflug in Germany either. There is a small annual budget per employee for activities & our Hamburg office just manages to squeeze the Christmas dinner in. I missed it last December being in the US...

OP is with a university. A university has to be careful what it does with its funds. I was on the staff of a UK university for 11 years and there was NEVER any Betriebsausflug , "group entertainment" or such...

If it's a Betriebsausflug then you're not required to attend and there's no requirement that the employer pays even though many do.

If you're required to attend then it's no longer a Betriebsausflug and your employer is required to pay your costs. If it's one of those kkinds of bosses and/or companies and you wish to remain employed it's your decision whether to STFU and pay the fiver or stand your ground and possibly get into a legal spat.

woof.

our last Betriebsausflüge we had to pay for the transport or find our way there, the bosses paid for dinner, and those that decided to stay over night got special rates at the Gasthaus.
But that was 2 years ago, they seem to conviniently have to cancel most of our Ausflüge for one reason or another.

I think your boss should at least pay a part of the costs, either the ticket or part of food/drinks. I worked for a small company that did not have much money in its start-up days. But my boss used to pay at least part of the bill for office trips.

I would not bitch about the 5 euros if your boss footed the rest of the bill. Like at the Oktoberfest outings, like Allers said, even the company pays for your intoxication, you have to get there and back on your own cost.

If he does not pay anything, I think you and your colleagues are right to complain.

Unbelievable that you spent so much time writing this, especially during a work day as late as 4:19 PM.

How many other times have you slacked so much?

And now you are moaning about €5?

Go look in the mirror and repeat: "The world owes me. The world owes me."

Being small is cool. Repeat that to yourself too.

Don't know what kind of places you work for but I have never in my life paid for (not the smallest bit) any business trip. Any and all costs are paid by the company. Maybe its because I've worked at American companies but I can't imagine German companies would be any different. If it is, glad I don't work for one... but it would be understandable since they also charge customers calling in for support. And I would join his "cheap &^#" at work because any job requiring me to travel can either pay me more up front or pay my trips. Inflation > pay rises.

Sometimes it's not so much the money itself but the principle of the thing.

I used to work for an employer who insisted that the employees have a Christmas party (dinner) and our boss told us that we should all be there as a strong team.

So they had this thing at a restaurant where they were only covering 10 euros of our expenses (which seems a bit cheap/stingy) but it wasn't possible to get through the evening on the 10 euros even with one drink and the cheapest meal option. I ended up paying extra out of my pocket, as did all of my colleagues. Sort of ruined the mood of the evening for me when at the end of the evening the boss was collecting the few euros from each of us.

It's not like the extra 4 euros or whatever bankrupted me-- but it was the idea that it was an event where the employer/supervisor put pressure on us to attend-- then it cost us all out of our own pockets. (And this was not in a high-paying profession.)

its not a business trip! Its an Office Event (betriebs ausflüge), they have to travel somewhere to get to it. Big difference.

actually, sometimes it has sod all to do with principles and a lot to do with tax law. A company is allowed by law to spend a certain amount of money per person per year for such things. If they spend more, it is a taxable benefit for the employee. If the company blows the entire budget on a trip to the Oktoberfest or a Christmas party they have none left for the Betriebsausflug, so the employees have to pay.

Consider yourselves lucky you even get to go. In my company, we have to pay for our own christmas party, our own Wiesn trip and don't even get a Betriebsausflug.

I work in a research institute, and we have to pay for everything. For the Betriebsauflug last year, we paid for tranport, the tour itself, and the lunch after. And we paid ~20 euros for the Christmas party too. Your boss going on conferences has nothing to do with it, "work trips" and "team building" are different parts of the budget, and if it's financed by the government, he can't really take money from one and put it into the other.

Employers should never ask an employee to go anywhere, at any time, without offering to pay. Period. The last slaves in Germany were freed after the war. If they can't afford to pay for a Betriebsausflug, they just shouldn't have one.
Caveat: Employee organized events are a different matter, of course.

Is this just a group outing?

I'd have thought the boss would pay - if he's a w3/c4 proffessor - he will probably be able to afford thirty bucks on a Bayern ticket. If you are a BAT 2a (or whatever they've renamed the system), these little trips do start to add up and though not a lot of cash - the entire trip will start to cost enough to resent spending the money...

My research group doen't really do anything for trips - but my colleague - who actually works for Göttingen but is based in Munich will go to social events in Göttingen and have the ICE paid for (by whom and out of which account I don't know) - though these trips will nearly always include a "work" portiion as well...

I look at it this way, if I have to go, thats something the firm should pay for.

It is not fair to tell poeple they have to go and then expect them to pay for it.

If its more a come of you want but you have to pay, then you have a choice.

If my company organises a night out or some kind of team event, then they pay for it, end of subject and that includes all travel costs. If they dont, I dont go. Having said that I dont attend any company sponsored events anyway(They pay for them all) as I spend enough time with my colleagues at work. I dont want to socialize with them after work.

I am a visiting scholar at a German university. Our research group has gone on several such day trips, and the wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiteren/innen have always paid their own way. The sense I have had in our group is that such trips are entirely optional. For what it's worth, I would encourage you to go (and just write off the expenses on your taxes). Compared to where I'm from (USA), Germans make much more of a distinction between work and their personal lives, so such activities can be a good opportunity to get to know your colleagues better.

I just got back from a Betriebsausfkug at Spitzingsee. We met at Spitzingsee yesterday morning and walked to the hutte. From breakfast yesterday morning to lunch today everything was payed for (even all the beers last night). I even heard they'll refund the travel costs if you apply for a refund...
I've never paid anything for a company do...

You work in the public sector right? If so then it's normal for employees to contribute to things like leisure outings, I worked for a university in Britain and we always had to pay for works do's in restaurants, pubs etc. In a private company, however, it would be very stingy of the boss indeed and would usually mean the company is strapped of cash...

Thanks for the replies, everyone (well, everyone other than Tomasino, who elected to be a self-important, uniformed ass). In the end we payed our own way, with the boss picking up the tab for the dinner meal and drinks.

As pointed out by others, it wasn't the size of the costs but rather the principle. But knowing that it is common practice made it much more palatable, so I thank you.

I work for a "Leiharbeiter" company and because most of their employees are spread around several different companies each branch has a "Stammtisch" every every three months, so that folk can get to know one another. We have to get ourselves there at our own cost (but since this is done on a regional office basis, the distances involved are usually not that great) but the meals and drinks and whatever entertainment is on offer (we're going karting next time) is paid for by the company.

Once a year they have a big summer get together over a weekend for the whole company. There is some sort of big entertainment feature (last year it was a medieval jousting tournament) and the whole family is invited as well. Last year there were over 2000 people there, they had forty-odd busses to collect people from all over Germany and bring them to the site (at some castle near Kassel, no pun intended!), as well as taking them to and from the nine hotels that were filled. Food and drink in several different styles was available the whole time and everything was paid for by the company.

Just goes to show, don't believe everything you hear on TV about "Leiharbeitsfirmen" or at least, don't tar them all with the same brush.

Oh, by the way, bit OT, but at the end of my first project it was three months before another suitable project became available - so I got to sit at home and enjoy the good weather from April to June, on full pay.

You luck, lucky, bastard !!!

Our department is being split up and we are all being transferred to new ones. Our boss has decided that we should have an "Abschiedsfeier". Of course under the good old spirit of our company, there is no budget for this so we have all been asked to pay €30 each to cover the cost under the motto "jeder macht eine Ausstandsfeier, die nicht ganz zufällig am gleichen Tag stattfindet".

So not only does our company not pay for Weihnachtsfeier and Betriebsausflüge, we also have to pay for our own Wake.