Costs of teeth cleaning at the dentist

So my dentist mentioned to me that a teeth cleaning would cost 100 euros in December. I didn't get a written estimation of the bill as they cost roughly the same at home, so it sounded reasonable. I went the other day, spent half an hour getting things done and I get the bill today. 230 euros!!!

I don't understand half the stuff on the bill - one thing cost over 150 euros and I can't find a translation for it. Does anyone know what Subgingivale Konkremententfernung means?

I'm being charged 25 euros for advice on hygiene which I didn't receive too my knowledge. Unless she means when she explained briefly in english what she was going to do before she did it.

Is over 230 euros a reasonable price for teeth cleaning here? Can anyone please advise me?

thanks turas

I have never paid for teeth cleaning, I thought it was classed as preventative?

Unless its been a long time since you last went to a dentist, then perhaps the KK may not pay.

Not sure however.

Did the dentist do anyting else, appplying flouride paste etc? Sometimes little extras like that are not covered by KK and must be paid for.

I paid 80€ just before Christmas. I know they do calculate it per tooth but it does sound like that is a bit over the top. I cannot remember everything that was on mine.

I would try and show the bill to somebody who knows a bit more than me or someone who could explain what it is exactly. Or call the dentist up and ask exactly what it is.

I assume you signed a form before the treatment though consenting to it so I am not sure how easy it is to contest the bill but you should try.

'Kariesentfernung' is covered by the KK I think every 6 or 12 months. However a complete 'Zahnreinigung' is extra if you wish to have it.

I paid €100 last time which I thought was steep, however €230 sounds outrageously expensive, unless, which I assume isn't the case either, they're removing radioactive material from your teeth.

Right, I'll have to ring them to explain themselves. I think it's over the top as the dentist said my teeth were fine and just need a cleaning. So how could it possible cost so much. Am really annoyed. I should have got the estimation in December in writing. Stupid girl!

Konkrement is concretion, a sediment of formerly soluable particles, much harder than plaque. The best known form of concretion in the human body is kidney stones or gallstones.

In your case they were "subgingival", i.e. under the gums.

It sounds pretty involved and also damn painful and I suppose that it is not within the regular scope of your standard teeth cleaning procedure. Did the dentist look into your mouth and probe before giving you the estimate? That is the kind of thing they should inform you of before starting once they have found it.

EDIT: The KK pays for your standard cleaning once within a 12-month-period but none of the fancy cleaning stuff.

Sounds like they went under the gum line to remove deposits.

Still, I don't pay that much here and I know I have a good certified hygenist on my teeth.

Hi Sara,

now she did mention about something about removing stains but that wasn't so bad. It only lasted a couple of minutes and wasn't painful. And she didn't say to me this is extra treatment and will cost you so much money. I'll just have to ring them. I still feel they're pulling my leg.

thanks for all the replies so far. The Wiki link is useful!

To be honest: you have no chance...

What you have not indicated is whether you were being treated "private" (in which case high factors are applied as everything is suddenly difficult) or via Krankenkasse. The latter's refunds can depend on how regularly you went for check-ups in the past & collected stamps in a little booklet...

And "Beratung" is charged as soon as you walk through the door...

For a "special" cleaning involving much plaque removal and some gum care, and which took over an hour I pad less than €120 so yes, this is excessive. Unless you're British, in which case your bill should be either €20 to look at your empty gums or €1500 per saved tooth.

woof.

I recently had the same thing done. Lasted nearly an hour, and included the subgingival stuff. Bill totaled roughly 150 €.

Wow, that is a lot of money! And although German is my mothers tongue, I have no idea what a 'Subgingivale Konkremententfernung' is either.

Its too expensive you are being done and they will more than likely put it down to you not understanding the German Language so well.Take someone with you and fight for it, if not you will get screwed even more in this country.

I am fast becoming an expert on dental billing, depending on the time taken it might not be such a bad price, I think I got charged about 400 at the english dental practice near the shamrock, but this was also for impressions for my implants, I didnt take up their offer in the end, they wanted nearly 21k in total for all my work. my new dentist is a guy I like, plays golf (instant like for me as Scotish) and so far I have speant nearly 15 to 18 or so hours in his chair over the last 2 months on Saterdays and Sundays and we are roughly paying about 500 a week I think he has done about 10 fillings and 2 root canals and extracted a wisdom tooth, which has caused lots of problems (alergic to the antibitics) Carm on here is the dental expert on here, but if you live near Munich I can well recomend my Dentist to you, he doesnt claim to speak any english but his english is actually ok

It's not German, it's medical terminology, a bastard between Latin and your local lingo. I admit, I googled Konkrement because I wasn't 100% sure what is consisted of. And I remember gingiva = gums from reading an Asterix comic.

I found another website in German where someone was querying the cost. They explain Subgingivale Konkremententfernung as as ist die Entfernung des Zahnsteins unter dem Zahnfleisch(rand).

I had my teeth cleaned by dentist before I left...May last year perhaps. I have to wonder why the dentist here didn't exclaim at how bad my teeth were if they were going to need such expensive work.

My own dentist at home said that I shouldn't worry about dentist while I'm away for the year. But I had pain in a tooth and wanted to get it checked out. Then Dentist said teeth were fine and I just needed a cleaning which would cost around 100 euros. I read on the other site they charge per tooth and she has a list of teeth numbers down beside that SK. I only remember one part being different from back home. And that didn't last long.

I have insurance and I had the dentist fill out claim for awhile back. But he didn't put down an estimated cost there either. Well lesson learnt, not getting anything done again without written estimation.

Is it what we refer to in england as tartar?

I did look like a vampire by the end of it...so maybe she did go under gums to remove stuff. If I had been prepared to pay 230 euros, fair enough . But to be told it will be a routine cleaning that will cost 100 and then be charged 230 euros, it smells fishy. I'll see if I can get some help here. Thanks.

@ worm: Not sure, this is from the German wiki article


And this is dental tartar, stemming from saliva in general. But they both seem to have the same effects.

I pay 70+ euros for a dental checkup. That's 30+ for the check-up and 30+ for cleaning. The cleaning mainly involves polishing the teeth with an electric thingie.

Am going to go down to dentist in person. I can imagine how this would go over the phone. I want an explanation in person as to why the bill jumped from 100 to 230 euro without my being told.

not sure where Carm is, but she will give you good advice, being a tooth expert!

Regardless what you received or whether it was worth the money: 230 is too much, given the fact that you were told the price would be 100 €. Therefore fore you need not accept this bill.

Tell them they gave you a "Kostenvoranschlag" about 100 € and ten percent more or less would therefore have been acceptable. As nobody told you about the price of the pretty pricey extras, you never had the chance to agree! Had you been told, you would have clearly disagreed. Tell them you are happy to pay 100 €, transfer 100 € and say on your Überweisung this is "vorbehaltlich der Anerkennung der Rechnung" (this is important).

Phone them or go there. If your German is not the best, get a German to help you out of this. In case this does not work, ask your local Verbraucherzentrale.
The average price for "professionelle Zahnreinigung" is between 70 and 100 €, I pay 76 € every year. Removing everything from under the gums is the whole point of going there and is usually included.

Ah thanks La Alemannia,

that's good advice. I did have it out with them today. The girl who cleaned my teeth wasn't there. So I spoke to the dentist instead. He speaks english so I was able to be very clear with him.

The first thing he said was "your insurance company will pay." I said never mind the insurance company, I want to know why my bill is so high when I had expected to pay 100 euros as agreed with him earlier. I also pointed out that since he said my teeth were good in December and only needed routine work, I could not understand how I got more expensive work done without being consulted in February. He had no real answer, agreed with me that it was too high. He said it normally costs around 200 euros for one hour. The girl had it down that I was there for 45 minutes, so I explained that was not true as there were delays and I had seen the time we started and ended. So he made a note of the time I said. So I said it should be half of 200 euros. He said maybe I needed extra work. Well then it should have been explained and I should have been asked I replied. That did not happen.

He went back to the insurance company and I explained that they do not pay for this type of extra work. I will be paying. Obviously they try to screw around the insurance companies by charging what they can. I doubt she did half the work she has me billed for, she didn't have that much time.

So between the jigs and the reels he will talk to the girl and ring me tomorrow. So he says! But if I don't hear back from him, I may do as you say La Alemannia. I feel better even for just speaking to him and it's awful to feel you're being taken for a fool. And I feel at a disadvantage as my german ist noch nicht so gut!

cheers again, turas

Pleasure turas, even though I am German I would have felt quite the same. Good luck!

DDBug, if your dentist/hygienist is good, could you please let me know where that is (either here or by PM)? I'm on the lookout for a good one!
Thanks...

You're very kind At least now I have a solid Plan B ready if I'm still unhappy with the bill.

mfG

turas

It's way too much. I get cleanings twice a year and pay about euro 80 per sitting. Call them.

To clear up some misinformation: public health insurance pays for NO cleanings. They pay for one CHECKUP per year and then a portion of any additional work excluding cleanings. Private health insurance might pay for it but they also may not - depends on your policy.

steep mate, last time i had mine done was about 90€ you found any teeth missing ?

This "vorbehaltlich der Anerkennung der Rechnung" once saved me 3000 Mark. I'll never forget this helpful little expression (it was not a dentist though).

I'm private with a UK health insurance company, they do pay for everything on my bill I just pay the excess of 40€ everytime I submit a claim and invoice, easy

I'm going to commit it to memory now!

It's part of the experience of being abroad I suppose. This could easily happen at home, although it hasn't so far. But at least I know which public bodies to complain to and what action I can take. I feel a bit lost at sea here. Was trying to look up GOÄ - but the problem is not that she overcharged me per service. It's that she provided extra service that I did not agree to. I know my insurance company won't pay for this...and I don't blame them! To be honest, I'm not sure she could have done all those teeth with so many machines in so little time, not unless she's Super Hygenist.

I've never refused to pay a bill before in my life. First time for everything though

cheers everyone, t

230 seems very high to me. I paid €100 and that included the scaling, opening up the gums and cleaning there, sandblasting each individual tooth and final polishing.

Why should Carm get involved?

She didnt do the work.. and I beleive that she *only does the work too, she is not responsible for the pricing structure at the practice she works in..

I could be wrong...

Just pay the bill and make sure you ask the right questions next time or find a new Practice to moan about!

* "only" was NOT written in a derogatory manor!

Carm knows the ins and outs of dental hygiene, possibly she can also throw a light on the ominous removal of subgingival concretion.

I dont see what the fuss is really.. I paid nearly 500€ to have my Dish washer cleaned...

Ok.. Wasnt some dodgy Dentist but none the less...

I go to Carm (pm me or her for more information).

Quite honestly, I trust her opinion on dental work over that of most German dentists.

I emailed one TT sponsor (PM for the name if interested) asking about the price and received this response:


This dentist is upfront about a rather wide fee range, depending on the amount of work required, although this maximum of 120 is much less than what you paid.

230 euro... wow, I didn't even pay that and mine included a quick return flight to london to visit my dentist there!

Thanks again for the replies. I really do doubt that the hygienist did half the stuff she claimed to do, especially after reading your posts. I feel I within my rights to refuse this one. I'm sure the dentist won't agree but that's too bad. I think they exposed the real point of this, by their over interest in the insurance company and telling me that the insurance companies usually don't have any problems paying what is required.

No wonder premiums are high with this kind of work going on. Not just here, but everywhere.

Thanks for feedback though, I feel stronger taking this on now that I have a better idea of other people experiences here. If he doesn't ring today, I may go to Plan B from La Alamannia.

Subgingival Konkrement or Subgingival Concrement is the same as Tartar/Calculus/Zahnstein below the gumline, but harder to remove, this is the 407 code in Germany and ONLY! dentists and Dental Hygienists are allowed to charge that. Did you see a Dental Hygienist or a ZMF? (ZahnMedizineFach- a 4 week program after Assistant school to learn to clean teeth! Not at all recognized outside of Germany).

THe other fee for 25 Euro was most likely the Aufklarung- it could be explaining the work they are doing, or the diagnosis of the tissues. I charge it lots.


I do have a life outside of TT, and 3 pages into you all seemed to be able to give your opinions.


That should have no bearing on the fees they charge.


that would be me! There are only 100 DH`s in Germany! And 7 In Munich! Even the offices that advertise on TT DO NOT have trained DHs!


I cannot judge what was done, without looking at the mouth, knowing the Periodontal Status or rays.


read post above! The Offices that advertise here on TT DO NOT! and I mean DO NOT have Trained Dental Hygienists! They use a poor ass german version.

My office charges about 180 per hour for a cleaning, by a Professional Licensed and Trained DH! I have charged upwards of 500 an hour on initial cleanings for Periodontal disease.


its unfortunately buyer beware in the country.

Krankenkasse DOES NOT pay for cleanings, they cover a zahnstein removal which is about a 5 min appointment, so, if you think you are getting a Free Cleaning, you are not getting one, and its not being done properly.

Hi Carm, thanks for giving your opinion on this.


To be honest, I don't know if she has a title or not. She didn't understand the word Hygeniker when I said it to her as i was making the appointment. But then maybe that word doesn't exist in German!


She did explain simply to me, as she went through the machines. So she probably earned that then. I thought she might have explained to me how to use interdental brushes too. But then I didn't ask her to. So fair enough I suppose. But she did have good english and still did not explain that she was doing something other than normal cleaning or that it would cost so much more money.


180 - 200 an hour an hour seems to be the norm here for a standard cleaning, listening to what people are saying. I got charged more than that for less than half an hour. So I do feel they are trying to make some money off the insurance company. The Dentist seemed surprised that insurance would not pay up. His over interest in the insurance company was suspect to me.

Yes, I'm learning my lesson on this one, buyer beware is right! He still hasn't rung and I think they close early today. If I don't hear from him by Monday, I'll have to get back to them myself.

thanks again Carm and all, it all helps. t