German Political Parties

As a relative newcomer here, can anybody explain the vaious political parties here.
I have heard of the CDU/CSU, the SDP, the Greens and FDP, but what do they actually stand for? Where do they sit on the political map. What other, more radical parites are there?

I shamelessly ripped this off the U.S State Departments website as its Public Domain and may be copied without permission:

Political Parties
Social Democratic Party (SPD). The SPD, one of the oldest organized political parties in the world, emerged as the winner in the September 2002 elections with 38.5% of the votes cast. It originally advocated Marxist principles. In 1959, in the Godesberg Program, the SPD abandoned the concept of a class party while continuing to stress social welfare programs. Although the SPD originally opposed West Germany's 1955 entry into NATO, it now strongly supports German ties with the Alliance. Gerhard Schroeder led the party to victory in 2002 on a platform strongly opposing the war in Iraq. The SPD has a powerful base in the bigger cities and industrialized Laender. Schroeder became party chairman in March 1999.

Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU). An important aspect of postwar German politics was the emergence of a moderate Christian party--the Christian Democratic Union (CDU)--operating in alliance with a related Bavarian party, the Christian Social Union (CSU). Although each party maintains its own structure, the two form a common caucus in the Bundestag and do not run opposing campaigns. The CDU/CSU has adherents among Catholics, Protestants, rural interests, and members of all economic classes. It is generally conservative on economic and social policy and more identified with the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. Helmut Kohl served as chairman of the CDU from 1973 until the party's electoral defeat in 1998, when he was succeeded by Wolfgang Schaeuble. Schaeuble resigned in early 2000 as a result of a party financing scandal. Angela Merkel is now party leader. Edmund Stoiber took over the CSU chairmanship early in 1999. Stoiber, currently Minister-President of Bavaria, was the CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate for the September 2002 elections.

Alliance 90/Greens. In the late 1970s, environmentalists organized politically as the Greens. Opposition to nuclear power, military power, and certain aspects of highly industrialized society were principal campaign issues. In the December 1990 all-German elections, the Greens merged with the Eastern German Alliance 90, a loose grouping of civil rights activists with diverse political views. The Greens joined a federal government for the first time in 1998, forming a coalition with the SPD. Joschka Fischer became Vice Chancellor and Foreign Minister in the new government, retaining those positions after the 2002 elections.

Free Democratic Party (FDP). The FDP has traditionally been composed mainly of middle and upper class Protestants, who consider themselves heirs to the European liberal tradition. The party has participated in all but three postwar federal governments and has spent only 8 years out of government in the 50-year history of the Federal Republic. In 2001, Guido Westerwelle replaced Wolfgang Gerhardt as party chairman.

Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS). The PDS was established in December 1989 as the successor party to the SED (the communist party of the G.D.R.). It has renounced most of the extreme aspects of SED policy but retained much of its Marxist leanings. In the 2002 elections, the PDS only obtained 4.0% of the popular vote and thus failed to repeat its 1998 successful establishment of a caucus within the Bundestag (at least 5.0% of the popular vote is needed to do this). The PDS did win two directly mandated seats but is generally ineffective in the Bundestag and no longer considered a serious party in German politics. The PDS' decline is blamed on a lack of political orientation and a continuing series of disputes among party leaders.

Other parties. In addition to those parties that won representation in the Bundestag in 2002, a variety of minor parties won a cumulative 3.0% of the vote, down from 5.9% in 1998. Several other parties were on the ballot in one or more states but were not qualified for representation in the Bundestag. The right-wing parties remained fragmented and failed to win Bundestag representation.

The US Stae Department got it mostly right.

I'd add that the PDS is not a sizeable force in FEDERAL politics but most certainly is at State and local level in eastern Germany.

Also that the "S" in CSU does gve it away a bit. The CSU tries in Bavaria to be a truly wide encompasing "peoples' party" and picks up votes from lower social classes that in other states would NOT go to the CDU. They do this by being a (little) bit more "social" than their northern sister party as we have recently seen over proposed further social health care reforms.

Cool Info... But in the end, they all stand for 1 thing...

To screw the avg. person for every Euro they can... (think of all the different taxes)

TBH honest Darkknight you need to see it a bit more deeply than that.

The headline rate of income taxation and social secuirty benefits is higher in Germany than (say) the USA or Britain. BUT, the subsequent taxation (price of beer, local authority taxes etc) is lower and you get for your money.

All the parties have plans where they wish to reduce taxation but that means making large cuts in spending or increasing taxation somewhere else.

So for example:

The SPD wants to decrease social security payments and offer lower welfare and health benefits and lower the tax breaks on owner-occupied housing.

The FDP Lower income taxes and inheritence taxes and no way abolish tax breaks on owner-occupied housing.

The Greens want to decrease social security payments, transsform the welfare system so EVERYONE pays in but increase taxation on energyand resources use.

Very intresting... However There are lots of other things that can be
done. way to many to talk about here, and I'm sure the Mods wouldn't
like pages of rants and fighting.. So If I can make the next meeting
look me up, and we'll chat...

All that is very welcome in the misc and random chat section. Personally I try ans stay away from the more controversial discussions but there are a lot of people here who love a good rant/argument. Beware though, theres a lot of very clued up people here, you have to know your stuff or you get shot down.

Dont let that hold you back though. I look forward to reading your thoughts on politics and any other topic.

DK, better off keeping it on the board. There's two topics that should never be discussed in a pub and they're religion and politics.

Mate of mine here made that mistake last week and ran foul of an irate Corkman during a discussion about the origins of the American constitution and the French one. Things started to get heated round about the part where he argued that the French today don't live in anyway according to the motto Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (Cork blokes wife is French) and there was also something about Oliver Goldsmith (the old git) which brought tempers to the fore. I'm sure the consumption of pints didn't help matters.

No, best avoid discussions where 90% of the time you'll either piss someone off or bore them to death.

Then I'll Stop right here!!!

Bloody hell that never worked before

I LOVE relgion and politics, particuarly when I've got a STINKING hangover and don't want to work!

Although I'm a dyed in the wool lefty, I can discuss objectively too.

<polishes politics degree, you want chips with that? >

Have to agree with keydeck there, I like discussing religion and politics too, but online, when I am at work and in "serious mode".

When I am in the pub, im there to relax, I try and stick to more light-hearted topics such as bodily functions, sexual topics, drugs and alcohol, girls, dirty jokes, peoples misfortunes, body parts, porn, things that smell or look funny, etc. Actually I dont mind discussing such things online either

And I can always talk about computers, online or not, but I dont like discussing sports as much as most people.

If Keydeck and Kza agree then there must be something in it!
Politics and pub don't mix for me either. If I catch myself getting into pontification mode after a few pints then it's time to change the subject or go home.

In the pub I'll discuss politics with people I'm broadly in agreement with but generally:


Sounds like last night!

The US state departments analysis is wrong and biased. It is a typical american point of view, which has no basis in fact (left parties are evil and right parties are great, and if a party for any reason is against the american point of view they are dangerous and radical) and have no idea of how german politics work. Another example I remember reading on the State departments website was about the german labour market and they made it sound like the people work in sweat shop conditions, when in fact the standard of living and working conditions in germany are much higher than that of the US. Or CNN during the last election...they sat in CDU headquarters the entire election night (CDU is the party that is most like those in the US), and acted like no other political party existed in Germany.

There are 5 major political parties (parties that have seats in the Bundestag):

SPD (Social democrats): This used to be the left wing party, but they have taken a huge swing to the right lately. In the past they championed workers rights and the welfare state. They still have the support of the labour unions today even though they are dismanteling the social system.

CDU (christian democrats): The right wing party. The easiest way to describe them is anti-foreigner, pro-military and pro-big business

Grün: The green party. You could say they are a hippy party, as they are against nuclear energy, they are for legalizing marijuana, against military force etc. After coming to the coalition with the SPD though, they have went back on many of their policies (they voted for genetially modified foods, and for German military units in Kosovo and Afghanisthan)

FDP: They stand for many of the same things as the CDU, but are more centre right. They are more centre right, and for example the head of the party (Westerwell) is openly gay (something that would never be tolerated in the CDU).

PDS: This was formed from the old DDR party. For this reason the US labels them as Communist and they are a red menace. They are in fact left wing, but no more than the SPD from the 1950s-70s. The germans see them as a far left party.

There are other fringe parties, but they are more on the Bundesland scene, and play no major part on the national stage

I would like more information about how the typical american point of view can be summarized as having "no basis in fact". I am not disagreeing, (or fully agreeing), but examples are always interesting.

Here for example are examples (taken from the State Dept.):

Social Democratic Party (SPD). It originally advocated Marxist principles. In 1959, in the Godesberg Program, the SPD abandoned the concept of a class party while continuing to stress social welfare programs. Although the SPD originally opposed West Germany's 1955 entry into NATO, it now strongly supports German ties with the Alliance. Gerhard Schroeder led the party to victory in 2002 on a platform strongly opposing the war in Iraq.

'It originally advocated Marxist principles.' In american terms it means they are communist.
'It was against NATO and the Iraq war.'
What does that have to do with a party that is over 100 years of history? They are telling things about the party that disagree with the US policy. They dont talk anything about german domestic politics.

Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU). An important aspect of postwar German politics was the emergence of a moderate Christian party--the Christian Democratic Union (CDU)--operating in alliance with a related Bavarian party, the Christian Social Union (CSU). Helmut Kohl served as chairman of the CDU from 1973 until the party's electoral defeat in 1998, when he was succeeded by Wolfgang Schaeuble.

I dont see one concrete thing here about the partys policies. They talk about Helmut Kohl (whose nose was permanently tattoed on Ronalds Regans ass), but nothing about any of the parties issues. This is the party that is most closely tied with the US...

Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS). The PDS was established in December 1989 as the successor party to the SED (the communist party of the G.D.R.). It has renounced most of the extreme aspects of SED policy but retained much of its Marxist leanings.

It retains most of its marxist learnings...ie-in american eyes it is communist

This is not the best example...but you can see that things are implied (it is made clear that SPD is against the war in Iraq and was against NATO and that the PDS is a marxist party). What I should have said was that the descriptions are one sided and from an american point of view.

I am wrong when I say not based in fact, because what is said are facts. But they show the one side. (ie-SPD against war with Iraq, but they dont say that they got a 35 hour working week and 30 days holiday for the german workers). The fact is the US cannot understand German politics because the US has a different and more restrictive system with fewer freedoms. There are 2 parties and they both are right wing. They dont understand that in germany things work differently, and for this reason when they describe political parties, they dont look at what they do for the german people, they look at what they do for or against the US.

A better example than here is for example discriptions of Cuba. Fidal Castro is a dictator. Plain and simple in the US description. I have never read anything good about him. Batista was a dictator as brutal as Castro, but since he towed the US line when you read anything about him they only talk about the good things he did. that was more the point. It is a biased point of view that doesnt look at the real issues...

I think that could be said for much of the rest of the world, and not just Germany.

Yes you are right. Most other countries dont understand how politics or the mentality of other regions work. This was not meant as a shot at Americans or the govt., but I was just trying to make clear that most Americans and the American government especially have a one sided view of foreign politics (with us or against us, good or evil), and that the stuff you usually hear from places like the State Department or CNN never tells the whole story and is not a good source for information about other countries or governments