Dealing with late-night TV noise from neighbours

I have been staying in my apartment for over a year now. Its extremely "hellhörig" - the walls are really thin, so basically I can hear my neighbours quite easily and vice versa.

My neighbour downstairs is this old woman who simply enjoys turning on her TV almost every evening(past 10pm) and sometimes early in the morning (before 8am). We have tried all sorts of tactics to get her to turn down her TV but she doesn´t bother. We watch DvD on the laptop and we can´t even sit in our living room to watch our DvD in peace, without hearing her background german TV all the time. My husband has gone down to talk her a couple of times. She has refused to open her door a couple of times and if she´s in a good mood, she will turn it down, if not, she will insist that her TV is not loud and get pissed off at us - even though she knows that the house is hellhörig.

I used to be frustrated about neighbours storming down the stairs (earliest at 4am!! Neighbour has early workshift) and slamming the door. Our bedroom is unfortunately just beside the stairway and we hear every step and every door slam. Posting a notice on the door to ask the neighbours to close the door quietly resulted in a cold war with the neighbours (who insisted that we were treating them like kids and were insulted that we even posted a notice like that. One neighbour even tore down our notice TWICE). Whatever. My husband ended up apologizing for that and I´ve gotten used to sleeping with earplugs.

This old lady, at that time, told me that I SHOULD use earplugs cos noise is part and parcel of staying in an apartment. I figured out that nothing can be done about ppl storming down the stairs and slamming the door - so that´s the past. We´re really pissed off because she has double standards. She keeps insisting her TV is not loud, but that´s not the point! The point is it disturbs us and we can hear what she has on! We have written her a letter to suggest that she can use earphones when she wants to watch TV late in the night. The same way she suggested I SHOULD use earplugs, she SHould use earphones then.

There is CONSTANT NOISE from her TV, radio etc... its like the old people music and its almost EVERYDAY. I can´t go to the living room or my study room (adjacent to the living room) without having silence in the house. And she has it on until LATE in the evening, lasting until 12midnight sometimes. Its not the blasting music, but its loud even for us to hear what type of program she´s watching, or sometimes we hear the words that are being said.

There was once the neighbour above us asked me not to play my guitar as I was playing it at 11pm. Since then, my husband and I pay special attention to be considerate neighbours and I usually don´t play my guitar at night, definitely not past 8pm. Even when we have guests over, we put notices to inform the neighbours. Its therefore double frustrating that our neighbour downstairs doesn´t give a horse S_it about making noise.

We met her once in the supermarket and she even sarcastically told my husband "oh, I hope you can study properly now. I´m sure my TV is not loud anymore" The cashier even asked her what was happening and she told the cashier "Oh they are my neighbours and they step all over my head". Can´t believe there are people like that with such audacity! We were just so stunned and speechless by the sudden onslaught.

What are the rights of a neighbour in Baden-Württemberg? What are the quiet hours? We have considered complaining to the landlords but we´re afraid that our neighbour downstairs is going to blackmail us, since she has been living in the apartment for a longer time than us. Plus, she´s the landlords´age and they are more likely to believe her story than ours, if ever we approach them for help. We don´t really want to resort to the police, but we´re really at our wits end. I don´t want to be always stuck in the bedroom, just so that I don´t hear her TV or music all the time! We have paid for an apartment and want to enjoy having the peace and quiet of the evenings together and not listen to the news on TV, or old people music. I´ve thought of having my music loud so that I can disturb the neighbour below, but I refrain from doing it cos I don´t want to be a nuisance to the neighbour upstairs (who are nice and have a kid).

how excruciatingly annoying that can be. german tv blasting through the walls, so harsh and ugly.

I don't know if this is any help ... but in my experience, when i'm at my wit's end with someone like that, specifically here in germany, i make sure to express myself to them in no uncertain terms. I mean, get in their face and let 'em have it! When push comes to shove, it seems that they usually are quick to back down (of course this is a huge generalization and likely to generate criticism ... but that's just my experience, both from regular interactions and from working in a nightclub) . Don't let that old lady push you around. She's trying to make a stupid powerplay on you by taking advantage of some unwritten protocol. Go and pound on her door, look her in the face and tell her off in two languages, and she'll get a clue. If it doesn't work, then go to the landlord, then to the cops if you need to, but don't let her push you around. The old bulldog will likely respect you for it. You're paying rent, you've been nice about it so far, and you deserve to be treated with respect and consideration.

TV, music etc. have to be Zimmerlautstärke (not audible outside the room they are in) in the evenings - certainly after 10 pm. Practising musical instruments is allowed for a restricted period per day (used to be 90 mins., I have to check whether it still is). She is trying to stomp over you but I would be firm rather than aggressive. Mention the magic word "Zimmerlautstärke" (will Google some legal paragraphs for you later) and be jutting-jaw firm, calm and confident. You could also say you're going to get the landlord to measure the noise with a decibel counter (Schallpegelmesser), "um die Sache zu klären". This makes it clear that it's her that's stepping over the line and not you. And if you want to be passive-aggressive, make sure you practise that guitar religiously for 89 minutes and 59 seconds precisely. Every day, mind.

Link about Zimmerlautstärke - noise must be inaudible or barely audible outside the four walls of the noise-maker - usually defined in Hausordnungen as between 10 pm and 6 am. However, it seems there is no legally defined limit of what constitutes "Zimmerlautstärke" because it depends so much on the building itself; but while people cannot insist on NEVER hearing noise from their neighbours, the "barely audible" rule applies, particularly in the Ruhezeiten (check your Hausordnung or tenancy contract, they may vary, but often noon - 3 pm and 10 pm - 6 am).

The site outlines a few possibilities: go to the landlord and ask him to warn the neighbour, threatening to reduce the rent unless something is done (which is tough and decisive but as you say, might set the landlord against you as well); the landlord can give the neighbour a warning and actually throw her out unless she complies. Or you can take the neighbour to court under § 859, 862 BGB and get a restraining order, with the threat of a fine for repeated offence.

It may also be a problem with the insulation in the house (-> again, reduction in rent and an even unhappier landlord!)

Doesn't sound like you want to take it that far, but perhaps knowing that you can and letting the offending party know that you know may do the trick. Dropping words like "lawyer" may help too. You've been very considerate already.

Another link

I hate noisy neighbours. In 6 out of the 7 places I have lived in in the past 12.5 years in the UK I had noisy/inconsiderate neighbours who wouldn't turn down their stereos/TVs even when repetedly asking them politely to do so. And i don't mean we heard a background humming - we could understand every word that was spoken/sung. The worst of all we had in the last place - he CONSTANTLY watched porns (day and night). Well, I hope he was watching them and not making them in the flat below.

I know this is no help, but at least in Germany you get things like Hausordnung and Mieterverein, which is almost unheard of in the UK.

I used to have a noisy next-door neighbour who played poker with his friends until at least 4 am every weekend. The worst thing about people playing poker is that they would be quiet for 5 minutes, and then explode with laughter for 10 seconds, and go quiet again, repeat ad nauseum. One night at 2 am, they were playing poker again and I couldn't sleep. So I turned my loudspeakers to the wall separating my apartment and his, turned the volume to 11, and blasted Guns N' Roses music for one hour. Never had any problems ever since. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Ohmigoodness, I have no clue how to "quote" somebody, click on QUOTE but nothing happens. Can anybody enlighten me please?

Thanks so much for all your replies, feedback and sharing of personal experience. Treasure every word! Its so encouraging and comforting to know that there are ppl who have been in the same boat as me. As for me, there´s no TV noise today after our letter yesterday, but we´ll haf to see how long the peace lasts.

Krostitzer - I actually like yr word "bulldog!" hahaha, made me laugh. I think she´s the type of woman who´s very capable of backstabbing me to the landlords and other neighbours (not that I really care much), but that´s why we have tried not to be so straight in the face and just piss her off. My husband has been doing that, asking her to soften the music... but she keeps claiming that she forgets! How often can one forget seriously?