Deutsche Post CEO investigated for tax fraud

In case you thought about cheating the german tax authorities, consider what they do to german CEOs.

Authorities Investigating Deutsche Post CEO for Tax Evasion (Spiegel Online)

Germany quakes as tax dodge probe widens (Guardian)


Ahhhh, "Schadenfreude", the most german way of having fun...

It seems the documents have been handed to the tax authorities by the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst - secret service). Of course they just got it from some anonymous third party. They would never use their skills on foreign banks, would they?

Well and truly "franked" !

If he did do it, he's incredibly stupid. With all of the tax deductions available you would think a wealthy person wouldn't have to resort to something dumb and illegal.

According to today's press reports, the authorities are investigating several hundred other "high profile individuals" for the same charges. Seems like there are lots of stupid people around...

If the charges are true, they really are.

Well it seems almost a thousand people could have been so stupid and thats just the ones who worked with this one bank. A few years back (2004 I think) germany offered an amnesty for tax fraud, but that must have expired now. Other kind of criminals dont get that many chances...

(sorry I typed too slow again - tom_a said it already )

I guess the rich and famous in Munich had surprise visits today? USAtoday Germany expands probe of Liechtenstein tax evasion


Don´t trust your money to Liechtenstein anymore...
German police resume tax raids as new week begins

I'm still trying to figure out how the German Federal Gov't believes it was legal to pay €5Mn for what is essentially stolen property.

I guess the defence lawyers will use this ammunition...

German Criminal Code - Section 259 Receiving Stolen Property

(1) Whoever, in order to enrich himself or a third person, buys, otherwise procures for himself or a third person, disposes of, or assists in disposing of property that another has stolen or otherwise acquired by an unlawful act directed against the assets of another, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

(2) Sections 247, 248a shall apply by analogy.

(3) An attempt shall be punishable.

Zumwinkels Anwälte werfen BND Hehlerei vor

Jetzt beginnt der Streit um die Rechtmäßigkeit der Fahndungsaktion: Klaus Zumwinkels Anwälte melden Zweifel an, ob die Daten über mutmaßliche Steuerflüchtlinge vor Gericht verwendet werden können. Ihre Argumentation: Der BND habe die DVD von einem Dieb gekauft ...

But if the thief works for the government is it still stolen?

In this particular case the thief didn´t work for the government ... he sold the stolen data to government handlers

According to what I heard and read, even when the information has been obtained illegally, it can still be used in court. Seems to be a difference between the german and the US legal system. But anyway Zumwinkel and other unnamed criminals already admitted tax evasion. Not to forget the evidence the tax inspectors might have found while searching the houses.

I wonder if other BND teams are already operating in Luxemburg, Guernsey or Bahamas...

In today's FTD, they argued that "property" as defined for the purpose of this specific law, only refers to tangible property, not information.
Not sure if that's true, though.

Frankly, the whole thing smells. Why would the informant approach the BND when the obvious approach would be to the Finazamt and related agencies. I don't buy the story that this just fell in the BND's lap. How will the German gov't react when lawyers for the defense start asking for information regarding the BND's activities in Liechtenstein? Will they claim "national security" issues?

If I were a lawyer for the defense I would simply claim the data on the DVD is fake. The gov't can likely prove that money transfers were made to Vaduz, but they can't possibly prove that the information on profits contained on the DVD are real. The Gov't in Liechtenstein can simply say "Fark you, it's all fake". How can the German Gov't possibly prove it's true?

I also wonder if the German gov't isn't over-reaching a bit. Zumwinkel is a big fish. There are bigger fish out there though. Extremely powerful fish. And not all of them German. I wonder if the Germans aren't sticking their nose a little too far into the offshore World.

When I see how the state fucks over someone on Hartz IV who "fiddles" an extra few Euros a month then quite frankly these parasites who have more money than they can possibly spend but still can't enough deserve what's coming.

That's one way of looking at it MT. But I pay all my taxes. And frankly, I have to wonder who slides more money past the Finanzamt (and me). Is it a few hundred rich guys. Or is it the Fliesenleger, Maler, Tapetenhänger, and who knows what who do maybe 30-40% of their business "Schwarz". Who here hasn't done something with their house without hearing the old "mit oder ohne Rechnung" Spiel? Those fucktards are making asses out of real taxpayers. And I have no sympathy for them just because they are tradesmen.

I would seriously like to see a study of the black economy and see where the real Euros are being leeched off. That doesn't mean I have sympathy for Zumwinkel and Co. But I'm not so blind as to believe it doesn't happen in a significant way at the bottom of the foodchain. And that costs me, a real taxpayer, a lot of money.

Germany re-examines ethics as police raids expand in tax evasion case

Today they also raided private homes and offices of banks in Frankfurt, Hamburg and Stuttgart. I think this case is going to get very interesting.

You've a point DH but I'm talking about Hartz IV claimants who literally get the odd 5 Euros an hours on the fiddle for a couple of hours a week who are demonised.
Sure, a lot of fiddling goes on, especially in the building trade that IS anti-social.
But I often think of a bit of the cash in hand economy being, in a good way, the lubricant of the whole system.

Gosh this is such a classic! Look who is talking...

Deutsche Bank chief fails to shake off scandal

Ackermann who was acquitted in 2004 because of the Mannesmann scandal has said:


More raids in German tax fraud scandal

Edit: Ackermann actually wants to say "But tax evasion has to be taboo. For everyone (except Ackermann and his friends)"

Maybe they see it as a normal intelligence operation in enemy territory in a justified economic war against the robber barons of Lichtenstein. Finally a strike against the tax evasion terrorists that really pays off.


They might not even use the content of the DVD in court. It just gave them enough reason to search the houses and offices of the alleged tax evaders. There they probably found the real evidence. Also they are hoping for the shock-effect. A lot of people already seem to be turning themselves in, to avoid more draconic punishment.

The government condemning "criminality" in this case is really the pot calling the kettle black.

It's obvious that the rule of law does not apply to the German government, and civil liberties can quickly be dismissed in the name of Tax law enforcement.

Germany's government and Judiciary should be the laughing stock of the democratic world for this one...And the citizenry should be very concerned.

Has Ackermann been accused of tax evasion?

Who cares? They're criminals, well stupid enough to get caught criminals. So what? Why do criminals always want to hide behind civil liberties.

Who cares? Everyone should, it's not okay for the Government to ignore the law. Civil liberties are there to protect us from the intrusion of the Police and Government in our lives.

If they disregard legal procedures and the requirement to respect citizens rights in the conduct of a criminal investigation in this case what else are they willing to disregard to catch someone. And if the evidence they use is tainted who can say the correct people are being accused?

and the statement that "only the criminals or those with something hide have something to worry about" is stupid and irrellevant, so please don't present it as an argument.

Errrrr so an informant approaching an authority and asking to be paid for information is an illegal procedure? When you land on Planet Earth do send me a post card, or would you rather project your message with mind waves?

Or do you believe the phrase Set a thief to catch Thief was coined only yesterday. If any one's argument is stupid and irrelevant its yours. Don't do the crime don't do the time. Simple get used to more of it.

Actually, they purchased information stolen from a bank. People are routinely prosecuted for stealing protected account information all the time. They only did this because they knew they could not get the information legally. So they resorted to illegal methods.

The ends justify the means? Shold the police be allowed to beat confessions out of suspects? What if the police allowed someone to break into someones home to look around for Evidence?

I think many people have no problem with this because they see it as "those silly rich people getting theirs" and are ignoring the principle of unconstrained police action.

I'm condemning the government for their actions in this, not defending the people they are accusing of crimes.

Clueless arn't we? As I said when you land in the real world do join in the big peoples conversations.


They did not resort to illegal methods at all. They were approached by e-mail from someone with information about Geldwäscherei. Happens all the time dearest. Or are you seriously suggesting they should never ever buy information which may lead to a criminal proscecution? Naive. Stupid and dangerous. As for the rest of your post. Pathetic hippie drivel that clouds itself in some moral high ground.

Grow up.

Obviously still sucking your thumb doesn't give you enough fingers to type more than a rather limp two word retort.

Gideon, how can you claim they didn't purchase stolen information. I don't know anyone who disputes that. Also the legality, or admissability of the data, is a major topic of dispute at the highest levels of government. It doesn't seem at all clear whether the Gov't will get away with using the evidence.

Also, I'd just like to say (for arguments sake) if George Bush sent the CIA to buy a CD full of stolen bank data, the civil libertarians would be having an absolute cow and a lot of folks around here would be calling for his impeachment.

Where do I say that?

Well perhaps I interpreted post #29 incorrectly. Re-read it for yourself if you like.

I wrote it. I dont need need to reread it. Again where did I say tthat they did not purchase stolen information?

Well Jeez Gideon, you essentially called the other guy a harebrained idiot for suggesting they stole something. Maybe it was just an idle insult? I dunno. Do you think they bought stolen goods or not?

No I simply called him a harebrained idiot because he is one. Now please for the third time, where do I say they did not purchase stolen information. I didn't did I? Please answer yes or no.

No, you didn't specifically. All happy now?

Quite.

Most information gained by authorities through third parties is obtained via illegal routes. In fact any form of whistle blowing involving a document removed from the a premises could be technicaly viewed as dealing with stolen goods, because they are that goods stolen from their owners, or worse still the individual who gave the information being sued for breach of contract. I'm sure the Datenschutz people are in arms about this all, oh no they're not becuase one was on the list!

I rather think the defense will have a lot to say about the admissability of illegally obtained evidence. But I'm no lawyer. I also don't believe for a second that the BND was just a passive recipient of the data. They have been heavily involved in gathering intelligence on Liechtenstein banking since 9/11. It begs the question did the Gov't get the BND to act as a go between for the proper tax authorities so that they could hide behind national security when the defense lawyers start asking hard questions?

It should be interesting.

Reading the review of the Bundestagkommision it seems that nobody is questioning the legality or plausabilty of how and why this information was gathered. Of course a defence will start throwing its toys around. But they may do so all they like. But as most of their mandats are now naked and pegged out in the burning sun they have to do something for their money.

Total agree, an absolutly fascinating case.

Well, reading the front page of the newspaper it seems a LOT of top politicians from the right and left are questioning whether the data will hold up in court. You may be very right about the data only leading to raids which uncovered further evidnce.

Which paper are you reading? I wouldn't take a bunch of politicians seriously in this case, bunch of media whores at the best of times. They'd argue the sun was green if it meant a quick 5 minutes of fame or 5 cms of copy. And they've quietened down since one of their ilk has been caught too. And all the squeeks I've read today have more been a whimper of why weren't we informed before? (Because it's too important and has your mates name on the list possibly?)

What intruiges me is that the informant approached the BND talking about Geldwäscherei, not Steuerhinterziehung. Working in a bank he will know the difference between the two. Is this whole affair simply the waste product of a much bigger and important quest to stop organised crime? Real crime that is, not just actions that are criminal and involve money.

At the end of the day I'm quite sure those concerned went through proper channels just as they would with a phone tap. This is Germany after all!

Liechtenstein fury at German tax snoop

Mine too! Germany is well out of order. They've broken the rules. They should apologise, hand the stolen CDs back and reprimand the BND operatives involved, and then name the LGT employee. It may be a small international incident on some scale and a legal indiscretion. Coming so soon after the Journalistenskandal it is more than just the tip of an iceberg.

The informant broke Liechtenstein law by selling stolen bank data (assuming that is what it actually was and not fake data) which could not be used if it had come from Liechtenstein's government or the bank itself. Since it came from an informant, there may be a loophole as to it its legality. What does German law say about the legality of Germans using this method of obtaining data (are there any privacy issues for citizens of EU countries) which was definitely illegal in the country from whence it came?

The former bank employee who sold the data has been named by the WSJ.

It is OUTRAGEOUS how much money has been stolen from the public!
In a show of unity, the CDU/CSU, FDP, Greens and SPD called on a cut of € 20 a month of Hartz IV benefits to make up the losses...

MT, might be better to make the point that tax evasion makes it harder to fund government spending, including social spending.

Tax evasion would be easier to catch with a simplified tax system (and the cost of complying with the tax laws would be much lower).

Stolen data which exposes crime is accepted. And quiet right too. The most interesting case, actualy more interesting than this one from a legal point of view was the Luxembourg-Commerzbank blackmail case. Oh and the customs regularly pays for stolen information in order to stop smuggleing. (plus a percentage bonus on the value of the good stolen).

True if tax was set a zero we wouldnt have to pay it. When you land on Planet Earth do send me a message.

Sorry Sin why shouldn't they follow the leads they've been given. It is in the interests of the German public to recover this money. Funny how those who have broken the law suddenly seam to want the law to apply. I seriously see no reason what so ever for the Government to play fair in organised crime - which tax evasion is.