Schools or Kindergartens for a 4 year old - Munich

Hi,

We will be living permanently in Munich from July 2005 and I was wondering if any one can recommend a school/kiga for our (at that stage) 4 year old bilingual son. It doesn't necessarily have to be english speaking but should be of quality and not all this play until they are nearly 7 years old stuff that I disagree with.

Thanks for your help

PS. would also like to hear from any modern, lively, working/studying mothers with a child of a similiar age.

hi tara,
my daughter is 3 and a half, bilingual and goes to a german play till 7 kindergarten which I also disagree with. I simplyteach her at home. Already she is able to recognise all letters of the alphabet and write them. So I say do it yourself as German schools are just a big waste of time. Where are you from?

Germans don't start teaching their children till they're 7?!

Nope! All they do in kindergarten is play till 6 or sometimes 7. Then they stress them out for the next 4 years and then select who goes to the gymnasium, hauptschule or whatever. For a wealthy country the education system here sucks.

lucky german kids...

i started school when i was 3.

Not lucky at all. I teach my daughter at home.

yes, it's difficult to know what do to with the German school system as it is. I don't expect all work and no play at an early age, but surely learning to read and write at almost 7 is much too late. A child is capable much earlier. What do others think/do?

The problem is what happens to a home-taught child when he/she enters school. Then they are bored stiff.

From speaking to other German parents they seem to like the system here. my German mother in law actually asked me if I was 'intelligenter' since I went to school at 4. Cow. But what I do find some German parents complaining about is the amount of pressure on the kids oncew they start real school.

Also, university starts and finishes later so a woman is just about starting her career when thoughts of having a child start to come, whereas in UK/US etc she has already had several years in her career.

I am happy with my son's kiga at the moment but then he is one of the youngest there and so learns a lot from the big kids, plus he learns German there so there is plenty for his little brian to be getting on with but I am concerned how it will be in a few years.

I just can't believe this! Who are you to decide that ALL German Kindergartens are this way?? My two children have attended normal, city-sponsored Kindergartens here. My husband and I have been very pleased. They DO NOT play all of the time. Whether there is more play scheduled compared to an English or American Kindergarten, I cannot say. What I can say is that, my children, did, in fact, learn ABCs and numbers in Kindergarten. Countless other life lessons are also taught, so for you to just say that it is all play is nonsense. Please do not make such generalizations. It is beyond unfair.

Actually, I don't think that at any time I said that ALL kindergartens were like this. Infact, my question was asking for one in which children are taught reading and writing, so I must logically believe in the existence of one which operates in this way.
I personally feel that the limited amount of structured learning in the Kigas that I know of in Germany is simply not enough for my expectations of a child's development. Knowing only numbers (my 3 year old is pretty good in that already) and the letters of the alphabet is in my opinion at 6/7 years of old a waste of many children's strong potential for early learning. I feel that reading, writing as well as some maths and science can easily be learned before the age of 7 without any great stress to the majority of children.
Of course imaginative play, crafts etc. all are worthwhile but if I feel that my child is capable and willing to do more, why should I restrict him (as the German system does), only later at klgirl says to condense a huge amount of learning into a shorter period of time.
Added to the fact that school ends at lunchtime, I certainly feel that a little more structured learning at a younger age can only be a good thing.

@Tara Sorry.
I think we actually agree on this. I believe that a child has a much greater potential than should be wasted on play and crafts. Have you tried privated Kindergartens? I think it is wonderful to supplement learning in any situation with extra work and attention at home. I fear that many parents do not have this same attitude, and believe that it is solely the school's responsibility to teach a child. BTW, I did not mean that my children learned only letters and numbers at Kindie. This was just an example. Also, not all Kindergartens end at lunchtime. Children can begin as early as 7.30 and go until 12.00, 2.00 or 5.00. It is flexible, (assuming there are enough openings ) and I have found that since many children go until 2.00, the children who continue on until 5.00 get extra time with the teachers and assistants. My son had extra tutoring for problems with his grammar this way.

"... a little more structured learning at a younger age can only be a good thing."

Very well put!

Find one that uses the Montesorri methods. There are several and some are city and some are private.
There is some other competing whiny psycho-bable method that emphasizes strict and harsh realities no matter how young. I had a run in with my preschool over it. They kept bringing up this guys name and I kept telling them that I just don't care what he said. They wanted me to say "goodbye" to my 2yo son every morning and to make him cry so that he would get over it. I told them that at 2, he had not a clue on what time meant. He only knew that "goodbye" meant "goodbye" whether it was ten minutes or ten days. I told them that he would know when to say goodbye and that I wasn't about to push it. So, one of them made sure to say "goodbye" to me every morning that I dropped him off. I told her to stop it immediately! My son doesn't seem to like her all that much?

After about 5 months, my son said "Tschüß Papa" on his own and he loves going there. One of the other kids (whose mother accepted this load of crap) was still having problems a year later, but he has moved on to kindergarten and I can only imagine the trama he is having there.

My son attends an all day Kiga and there are considerably less kids there in the afternoon, so I think that you are right Amgarcon, that he gets extra attention there.

Is it diificult to get a Kiga platz i n Munich? Are there waiting lists? What can I expect to pay for a whole day space? Can they eat there? Here in Freiburg, I pay an incredible 110 euro/month plus 51 euro for food (all organic, oeko food). Compared to Canada/UK, this price is amazing.

Also, here in Freiburg, English is in most High Schools compulsary. Is that the case in Munich. And if so what do you do with your already fully fluent kids?