Choosing a city in which to learn German

I cannot advise on language schools, but accent-wise, Bonn or Cologne wouldn't be bad choices. In Leipzig, trying to pick up German from locals could be frustrating because of the accent, especially as a beginner.

Another pretty city with lots of students and cafes and bars is Freiburg. There you'll listen to another dialect though.

A place Ive always thought would be excellent to live is Cologne. Its big enough to be international, it has a major Media, Student and Gay population so its open and hip without having the painful insider cliques that Berlin tends to suffer from. Every time I go to Cologne I think about moving there.
I wouldnt recommend Munich, Leipzig probably isnt as grey as you suspect but Berlin can be very digital - You could find yourself caught up in a whirl and loving it or left alone for four months and hating it.

andy M

For the clearest spoken German you need to be somewhere in the north, in the Hannover-Hamburg area. Hamburg is the 2nd largest German city and very international and there's a lot of possibilities for the 'younger scene'.

Leipzig really surprised me when I was there. I was expecting lots of architectural remains from the socialist era, but there's virtually none of that in the city. There's a mix of beautiful and richly decorated houses from the 19th century and stylish modern architeture. Virtually none of the ugly gray houses that were built just after WW2 and that so many West German cities are riddled with. Leipzig used to be rather wealthy and it still shows. I can't really comment on "empty" and "boring" since I was staying with friends and had a tight schedule, but "ugly" makes me wonder if the people you've talked to are just describing what they imagine East Germany to be like, or if they've actually been there.

I live in Leipzig. The previous comments are right. Apart from the area near the station it's one of the most attractive big cities in Germany in terms of architecture. Compared to other German cities it's quiet apart from saturdays but that's what it's like in the east, it's a hangover from the GDR days. It's definitely cheap, even a room bang in the middle of the main student area shouldn't be much more than 250 euros a month including all bills. It's disadvantage is that it isn't an international city and you have to bear in mind that only twenty years ago it was communist so some of the people have a kind of weird attitude to English people or Americans and come across very unfriendly. On the plus side there's a big university and lots of young people. If I was going for a language school I'd try to go to one in Berlin, but that said you could do much worse than Leipzig - I was in Chemnitz the other weekend.

However, if you happen to pick up the accent from Leipzig, you might as well shoot yourself. Just a thought.

You might like Leipzig if you're into art, RD. I studied German and art in nearby Halle for about 7 months, and made many trips to Leipzig to check out what was going on at the Spinnerei, which is easily my favorite gallery complex ever ... Were I to leave Berlin, I'd consider living there as a second choice, though I still don't know as much about the city as I'd like to.

I can't say I'd strongly recommend Halle, though, as there aren't many young people left outside of the unis, and you want to be around young people. Overall, it was good, though:: In the uni where I studied, there were tons of students from all over the world. Plus, the architecture is really amazing there, as only the bahnhof was destroyed in the war. It's a beautiful and interesting city with an undeserved reputation as postindustrial backwater, imo.

I'd say that if you really want to immerse yourself in the language, find yourself a place to study in the east, because far fewer Germans speak English in the east than in the west. The DDR folks usually learned Russian as a second language. When in Halle, I felt like an oddity, and people were generally quite interested in speaking to me and patient with my developing German skills. I remember having a real difficult time trying to tell a friseur what to do with my hair, haha.. Other than an occasional suspicious glance, I never felt any weird vibes from anyone in Halle.

If you want to learn German, I don't think it's a good idea to start dismissing certain places because of accent, as some people are suggesting. Wherever you go, the people will have some kind of accent. Snobbishness about accents in one's home country is bad enough, IMO, but in foreigners it's completely ill-placed. I know people who spent a few months in Leipzig as students. They had a great time and their German certainly didn't suffer.

yes but some are considered to be pure high German. What you hear spoken equates to what is written, so makes learning easier. Hannover and the surrounding area, as someone mentioned, is the purest accent you will hear. Hamburg is better than most German cities but you still have to learn a little platt to understand folk. As a beginner, strong accents and dialects are a nightmare, so best to avoid them (if you can) until you have a grasp of the language. Sooner or later you'll have to get to grips with the different dialects, though, but it's easier if you have a command of German.

Agreed with Lorelai, particularly because if you are taking classes the teachers should teach you "hochdeutsch" anyway, regardless of where you are.
And while the city of "hochdeutsch" is Hannover, I am not sure I would recommend going there to take German classes. I would probably prefer a bigger city, like Munich, Cologne, Hamburg or Berlin. Heidelberg is also very nice (though obviously not a big city).

Presumably you would therefore recommend that anyone visiting the UK to learn English should avoid Northern Ireland, Scotland, NE England, NW England, the Midlands, SW England, but above all Wales(!) because of the ebsolutely ghaaaastly adulterated accents...

As nice as the pleasantly sounding melodic Kurpfälzer accent you might inadvertently pick up in and around HD ...

My first extensive stay in a German city while I was studying was Regensburg, so I would agree with the idea that somewhere without a strong regional accent makes everyday life MUCH easier. (I asked for Apfelsinen, but they only sell Oraaaaagen, etc.) It has zero to do with snobbishness. I love regional accents, but they made life unnecessarily tortuous when I was a beginner/intermediate at German. Your ego gets enough kicks every day when you're learning German (sooo many mistakes you can make in EVERY SENTENCE you speak), and you have enough stuff to learn without having to handle weird (if attractive) regional quirks as well. I don't know how thrilling Hannover is to live in, though?

And while you`re at it you`d better avoid East Anglia, Essex & North Kent (Estuary English), plus all of East London, & Sarf Lundun. Much of West London aint too good either, and North London`s all media folk. As for the centre, thats mostly foreigners (and media folk). Doesnt leave much besides Surrey!

In no way did I want to belittle regional accents and dialects (BTW the thread was split, and it's Eironeuomenos who is looking for a language school, my German is okay )

However, Eironeuomenos wrote in the other thread that she plans to "hang out at cafes/restaurants to try and hear *something*", which is a good idea, I just imagine it'll be very hard to identify any similarities between what is taught in the course and what one hears on the street in regions with heavy accents, and therefore it can be frustrating for beginners who want to make progress quickly.

For the rest, I agree that East Germany still needs to be "discovered" more (also by West Germans).

Oooh. Scary!


If you're learning a new language, it's all new and it all sounds "weird" anyway, so whether it's said in a regional accent or whether you learn a few extra words here and there seems to be beside the point.

I would recommend against any of the bigger cities where almost everyone can speak English as it is hard to practice!

You know, I hear people complain about this all the time. I learned most of my still-limited-but-passable German in Munich, however, and though upon arrival I could only speak about 3 words, somehow I never had this problem to any great extent. My coworkers, roommates, friends, etc., asked me from the get-go which language I wanted to speak and they pretty much stuck to it. I found that when I did actually speak English, 9 times out of 10 it was because I was being lazy (actually, that remains true to this day). Sometimes you'll have one of those annoying situations where people hear your accent and switch, but in my experience as long as I stayed in German it didn't take too long for them to switch back (usually due to the same problems that would make me switch back to English: they get stuck on something and give up).

True, perhaps in the bigger cities you'll have the girl working at the bakery hear your accent when saying, "ich hätte gern einen Krapfen," but you're not going to be missing out on that much when she says "is that all?" and "one euro ten" in English*. At the very least, you wouldn't be missing out on so much that I'd write off all the big cities because of it!


* And besides, you'll get to learn German English when you say "thank you" and she replies, "please!"

East Germany also has a quite fascinating recent history that is usually overlooked. I had a some really cool beer-fueled conversations in Halle bars listening to old guys spin yarns about their experience with the Stasi. One guy rolled up his sleeves and showed me the scars of dogs that were sicked on him while he was being tortured. He was also forced to stand in a narrow cell filled with water just below his nose for great lengths of time. As someone trying to learn the language, and being a guest in an east German city, you score instant browniepunkten with the locals, who are eager to share their history. The people in the east are usually down to earth and will be genuinely interested in talking with you.

I believe that Eironeuomenos wants to learn German in order to work here as an economist. Personally I would suggest Hannover because a dialect is of little utility for professional purposes, and also there is no benefit to unconciously using Umgangsprache in a business environment, thus reducing the utility of using cafes as a learning environment. She should try to get an internship somewhere, if possible.

I can vouch for this. Hamburg is a nightmare for learning German. So many people want to practice their English as soon they hear your accent. Even bus drivers seem to speak English here.

Try and pick a small town and avoid the expat crowd.

I haven't done too badly...


Thats very true.

I think the people who want to practice their English thing is more of a matter of age than place. Even in smaller towns you will find plenty of young people who speak English. Old people on the other hand (old as in grandmother age, 60+) do not typically speak English that well. Maybe you should move into an area of all old people, preferably in the east.

It's just possible that there are more successful professionals out there who don't speak German with a Hanovarian accent than those who do. Just as plenty of people aren't held back by not speaking British English with received pronunciation...

If you want to learn an pick up the purest German (the "Oxford German", so to say) you've move to Hannover.

thanks everyone for your input. and the more i read the more indecisive i get..

so from what i gather, Hannover is accent-free, but apparently a nightmare to learn german b/c everyone wants to speak english with you

leipzig is cheap, but has strong accent

berlin probably has same problem as Hannover

etc.

i'm not sure why some people recommend going to a big city, and others strongly oppose it. i will have to think more about this!!

p.s. i think i am going to give up the idea of getting an economics related job for now. just trying to be a bit more realistic..

You're mixing up Hannover and Hamburg.

Hannover = no accent, fairly small and somewhat boring
Hamburg = slight accent, big city, pretty cosmopolitan so more people who can speak English

I learned German in Berlin. I did a 5 month intensive course, 20-25 hours a week. The whole thing cost me €1500, unlike one month at Goethe, which is like €1100 if I remember correctly. Unlike what some others have said, it's not going to make a difference where you live for the first 2-3 months, because you'll only really understand your teacher until your german has reached a certain minimum level.

In Berlin, unlike other cities I've been to, basically everyone but construction workers speak "high german" / Hochdeutsch, which is really what you should learn if you want to make a good impression wherever you go. I started learning german in Oct 2006, and I'm not kidding you, every single german I meet (still) is blown away with how I speak german. Every single new person I meet (no joke) says "wow, you speak german really well!", then I tell them it's only been a year and a bit, and the jaws drop every time. So I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but to say that the level of instruction I received was quite good indeed - it's a matter of how much you want to put into it.

In addition to that, Berlin obviously has indeed some rather interesting history, places to see in your free time. Living expenses are still really cheap, though for Berliners they think the prices are getting crazy. You could easily find yourself a very nice flatshare (so to meet some more people / practice your german at home) for €250. I've been fortunate enough to find a flatshare in a really fantastic central area for €180 / month. I like many here, am on a tight budget, and so Berlin is one of the few places in Germany i can actually afford to live in. If you're smart about it, you can eat well for €5 a day, and have money leftover to go out at night a few times a week. For a long time I was surviving here on a mere €400 a month and never felt like my life was too restricted. €550 is more humane however.

Good luck

Oh yeah, re: Hannover, berlin, etc like I just read, if you simply keep replying in german, they will get the point and not speak english. That bit is also up to you. Of course that requires discipline, but they say the language you meet somebody in is generally the one that sticks.