How Bavarians differ from other Germans

I hear they are very proud and don't really see themselves as truly German - is this true? Do they have any traditions that one would never see in other parts of Germany?

Bavarians are a bit like Texans or Yorkshiremen.

Still, it gives the rest of us something to laugh at, eh?

Remember that "Germany" only exists as a country since the 1860s, so there is more regionality in terms of culture, traditions and cuisine than in other countries. I think that most Germans view themselves as Hessisch/Schwabisch/whatever first and German second, but this feeling is particularly strong in Bavaria because they have historically had strong and powerful rulers.

I can give you my point of view, may be interesting for you, as I am Bavarian.

I see myself as German, of course, but I am also happy to be Bavarian as Bavaria is of course the best part of Germany .
I'm sure there are regional differences, like people from the northern part of Germany have this weird accent and like to eat green cabbage.
Bavarians have the Weißwürste and Trachten and of course the brew the best beer. Landscape is more interesting as it's not flat. Lots of hills and cows.
This comes from a person who loves Munich, so if you ask someone from Hamburg I am sure they think the Bavarian accent is weird and they don't like some of our local food.

Same here.

I love being a Münchner but wouldn't want to be Bavarian.

Its a definate fact that bavarians arent viewed too kindly by people from other parts of germany! They are regarded as arrogant and rude.

Well, if you are from Munich, you are both. I usually don't say I am from Bavaria but from Munich, but everyone knows Munich, if I was from some small village I would say Bavarian. And while I would not like living in some small village, if I lived in another city in Bavaria, I would still like being Bavarian. Of course Munich is better though.

Thanks for opinions. V useful already! I'm trying to write an essay on the topic for uni. Does anyone know of;
publications/ libraries/ businesses/ govt departments that would be useful for me to visit or look into. I must collect information from many different sources?

Thanks for opinions. V useful already! I'm trying to write an essay on the topic for uni. Does anyone know of;
publications/ libraries/ businesses/ govt departments that would be useful for me to visit or look into. I must collect information from many different sources?

.

No. Self definition of your own identity innit

Bavaria is nice, been there a few times, but it is important to be inside the Mitlerer Ring by nightfall.

Well, I live outside the Mittlerer Ring anyway, but you're not the only one who defines you. (Others do too.)


Anyone who judges someone by the state or city they're from is not the brightest anyway. Regardless of whether they're Bavarian or from elsewhere.

Sure, but no one can tell you how you self-identify.
If only we could break up Bavaria: independence as city-states for Munich and the Nernburgers.

Who gives a toss about Wildbad Kreuth or Wolfrathouses?

You couldnt, even if you wanted. If you live in München, you are a "Münchner" (allthough not a real one, some would say), but living in bavaria doesnt make you a bavarian. Same as living in germany, doesnt make you german. Of course being bavarian is better than being just german, because you could get granted a german citizenship, but "bavarianness" can only be inherited.


You can be from bavaria but still not be a bavarian. If your grandparents grandparents havent already hearded cattle in bavaria you are not a real bavarian.


So bavarians are the most german germans?

It's true, though, that being a Münchner doesn't make you a "real" Bavarian. Many Münchners (me included) can't speak the Bavarian accent or they sound awfully silly if they try ;-).
But since Munich is IN Bavaria I would count myself as a Bavarian no matter what.

I don't think they are rude - are they really??? Maybe they are straight forward which is misunderstood as being rude by many people who aren't used to it...

F, it's a real intersting concept. i ws talking about it with a Berliner colleague the other day.
He said the difference is that in Berlin, anyone can "belong" whereas only indeed if your grandparents herded cattle here before the war are you "allowed" to be a local.

Interstingly, with all the stuff about migrants at the moment is that Munich has a higher population with (international) migratory backgrounds than Berlin.
If it wasn't for us foreigners making Munich what it is, it would still be a provincial nest somewhere between Frankfurt and Milan.

Every book about german/bavarian history can tell you why bavarians (like many other german tribes) feel they are special. The thing that really separates them from Hessen, Schwaben, etc is, that there has been a political entity called bavaria in this certain area for a very long time.

I have always found Bavarians to be friendlier than other Germans ,and also no so arrogant . On another note , the rest of Germany gives Bayern the blame for the second world war , citing Hitlers powerful connection to the area .

Thats probably true. In some way the rulers of bavaria always had a good hand at picking clever foreigners to help them build up bavaria. I think the designer of the "Englische Garten" was an american (Graf Rumford alias Benjamin Thompson) for example...

Dont feel glum about being excluded. I am born and raised in bavaria, even speak some kind of bavarian and im still not considered the real thing.

Also interestingly , Bayern is the only German state that if a referendum were to be held and the Bavarians decided that they no longer want to be part of the Bundesrepublic , they have the right to declare independance , hence "Freistaat Bayern"

Also interestingly , Bayern is the only German state that if a referendum were to be held and the Bavarians decided that they no longer want to be part of the Bundesrepublic , they have the right to declare independance , hence "Freistaat Bayern"

First month I was here I lived in a fremdenzimmer on a farm in Perchting, the village further up the road of isolation from Arschderwelting. Every evening I would come back from the office and the lady of the house would insist I came to the Stammtisch every single bloody night for at least one drink. Notwithstanding, the Stammtisch consisted of the farmer who owned the farm and lived there, his son who lived and worked there, and the same bloody neighbour who probably helped out on days when the pace of life exceeded five kilometres per hour... and there were never, ever, any other customers... not even the occasional other guest. At the end of that month she billed me for every single fuckin' drink, would you believe. There was another bloke staying there from the Bremen area who was my only other English speaking contact (my German was rudimentary back then) during one week and, rather uncharitably I thought at the time, said, "The Bavarians only got rid of the Jews so they could have the market to themselves." I thought this was a bit harsh and told him so. But, there is an element amongst the Landbairisch, especially the Oberbairisch, that you always count your fingers after you've shaken their hands. Just in case, like.

I think all you need for your essay you will find here in TT in this thread! It is amazing how much most people here already know after such a short while!

As a personal suggestion I would say don't even go near the libraries: the many facts that they collect there will only confuse you.

So: Freistaat Bayern can hold a referendum because before the 1860s there was nothing and the Stammtisch is not for free!
Over to you conquistador!

and is it true that they are arrogant and rude???

Where did you get that nonsense from ?

In Germany the term free state (in German, Freistaat) was part of the full names of most Länder (federal states) during the inter-war period. The term was synonymous with republic and was introduced to emphasise the transition of Imperial Germany to the Weimar Republic after the defeat in World War I and the fact of the German Revolution, which deposed all German monarchs. Just as Free Cities (Freistadt), such as the Imperial Free Cities of Hamburg, Bremen, and Lübeck, were ruled not by a hereditary monarch but by an elected council of burghers, so all of the free states were no longer to be ruled by a noble or royal head of state but by elected representatives of the citizens. The term Freistaat is still used for the states of Bavaria, Saxony and Thuringia.

I get that feeling up in NRW, they're about as arrogant and rude as you're gonna get anywhere on earth. Just my opinion, of course.
Also, I need to wear my ice hockey pads just to walk the fucking street there, unlike in Bavaria.

A link to the bavarian constitution. (pdf in english) Which btw says that there is a bavarian citizenship that you could apply for (if there was a law). Surprisingly there is no clause about excluding "Preissn".

Indeed, assuming bavarian citizenship legally existed, I would have it by marriage...
What I find interesting is that when most people talk about being bavarian, they mean "ober"bavarian. My husband comes from Nürnberg, and the people there aren't half as interested in being bavarian as those round here - they're franconian, if you ask them. Being bavarian would associate them with the Oberbavarians, and they don't want that...

Nonsense. Who's talking like this ? May be, we Bavarians are shockingly straight forward but we are not hypocrites.

The natives of Berlin take the cake in that respect. Bavarians are only regarded as surly pork-eating beer-drinkers.

But seriously, when you look at these maps through the ages you will see that Bavaria always had a fairly large, unified area while the lesser dukedoms etc. to the west and north gave the maps a certain patchwork appearance. This led very early to a national self-confidence, and Bavaria never really forgave Ludwig II for requesting that Bavaria be included in the German Empire in 1871 (after the Franco-Prussian War). Ludwig II who couldn't be bothered what his subjects thought of him because he despised them anyway used the money he received in return for this request to build his various castles, thus giving Bavaria yet another reason to consider itself exclusive and elitist.

Most interesting maps:

1152 - 1190 Stauffer dynasty

1380 Luxembourg era

1547 Karl V of Habsburg

1580 Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation

1660 after the 30 Years War

Sorry, but every single person from hamburg or berlin who I met in munich told me about how everyone else in germany hates bavarians. maybe they were winding me up, but I heard it time and time again.

as someone said before, its like yorkshiremen in england

I was going to say in the case of an expat they would probably not be considered Bavarians but by your definition I am not Bavarian either.


I cannot speak Bavarian and you can usually not tell by how I speak where I am from, oh well... I still consider myself Bavarian too.

I've got a mate in Bielefeld who absolutely adores it when a Bavarian girl says, "Gruß Gott." When I was up there in the 90s we used to get in a bit late and use the Munich sexy alarmcall service. Normally they'd offer you something warm and cuddly to wake up with, but seeing as we were at the other end of the country they'd just, very sweetly, tell us it was time to wake up. They probably went out of business because of me and 'A'. Anyway, saucy Bavarian girlies and their accents, Yes Please!

I'm Allgäurisch first, Bavarian second and German third.

You cant really say that. It all depends from where you come from. People in Bavaria/Bayern have this typical attitude (Reserved, Conservative, Family - oriented, etc stuff) and most of them like to have their own space (literally too) and be around family, etc stuff (Dont count the teens. They sound a bit different. But, its like that everywhere.). Its this attitude that makes others believe that they are rude and arrogant (Maybe true sometimes, but it aint true when you generalise that).

Most of the people around are proud of being Bavarians and they look at people from the East Germany (They call it 'Oh she/he is from the East) or Eastern Europe and say that "thats why they act that way" (some say they act cheap, some say they talk too much, etc stuff). And they complain about East Germans coming to Bavaria and takin' away all their jobs (Because East Germany is relatively poor and highly unemployed). And also some people claim that Bavaria was more prosperous before unification of East and West.

I have colleagues from all over Germany (Most of that is Bavarians) and I can strikngly see the difference in attitude and behaviour between Bavarians and others from Hessen and other Northern parts. Bavarians dont mix up very well (although they all speak to me in a pleasant way), but the other ones get along a bit more and funny sometimes.

Some things might look bad from our point-of-view, but lookin' at things with empathy, I can say that some things are good..like the way they give importance to family life, culture, etc stuff. Also, it aint very orthodox and it aint very liberal too.

VORSICHT:
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DISCLAIMER : The things that I listed out are just my opinions and are not biased (although I didnt live in East Germany - Maybe that makes this a bit biased). I just formed these opinions from observing and reading the characters. I might not be totally correct since I spent just 10 months of my time here, so far. But I've made my observations from different perspectives. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

When I made up this definition, I was actually thinking about myself. Although born in München, I never felt 100% integrated. Dont get me wrong I am perfectly at home here and happy, but family history, traditions, religion and dialect are just a little bit different than those of my friends. I dont even know how to play "Schafkopf". Maybe I should ask for integration courses.


Shouldnt you say you are Dimpflfingerin first, then Allgäurisch,... To my experience regionalism doesnt stop at regional level. Every bavarian hamlet has a tradition of distinguishing itself from the neighbouring village. They have (or at least had) mocking songs, they steal each others Maibaum and sometimes beat each other up when they meet at some Volksfest.

That reminds me of something. A real Freisinger might say: "Im Freisinger and german, but if I had a choice I certainly wouldnt call myself a bavarian." We will never forget that Freising has only recently (1802) been annexed by bavaria.

Bavarian citizenship exists.
There are several ways to gain Bavarian citizenship:

From the Bavarian Constitution:

Article 6 State citizenship
(1) State citizenship shall be attained
1. by birth;
2. by legitimation;
3. by marriage;
4. by naturalisation.
(2) Citizenship cannot be revoked.
(3) The details of citizenship shall be the subject of a law.

Article 7 State Citizens and their rights
(1) State citizenship is held by every citizen over the age of eighteen, irrespective of birth, race, sex, religion and profession.
(2) The state citizen shall exercise his rights through participation in elections, local petitions for referendums (Bürgerbegehren) and local referendums (Bürgerentscheiden) as well as state-wide petitions for referendums (Volksbegehren) and state-wide referendums (Volksentscheiden).
(3) The exercise of these rights can be granted temporarily for stays of not less than one year.

Article 8 Equality of citizens
All Germans resident in Bavaria shall possess the same rights and obligations as Bavarian citizens.

Taken from http://www.bayern.landtag.de/pdf_internet/...an_Const(1).pdf

So the Bavarian model of citizenship is more modern and open than the German one. But after all it's worth nothing, but to slap it in the face of any xenophobic CSU-member.

I didnt say that I think that, just that a lot of germans from elsewhere in germany that I have met think that. I honestly dont know enough german to have the slightest clue in the difference in attitudes between people from different regions

Everybody is talking about how arrogant Bavarians are, but on the other hand, aren't they kind of seen as country bumpkins? I don't find them arrogant -- I think they have great senses of humor and are always joking. But maybe that is because my family is Bavarian. My dad says Bavarians feel closer to Austrians than to the rest of Germany, but I think he might be a little biased there, since my Oma was from Austria. The dialect is definitely more similar, as is a lot of the music, traditions, etc.

Edit: I haven't spent enough time in other parts of Germany to really judge how Bavarians compare, though.

I would agree with that.

I was born in Munich, as was my mom, but not my dad and not their parents (and they were not born in Bavaria either). I don't know how to play Schafkopf either but then none of my Münchner friends ever really played that. My brother knows how to play most card games because he and his friends play all the time (for money too).

Oh no no mo no no. Bavarians only think that. But in reality Baden is the best part in Germany. We have great beer, world-class wine and most Michelin-starred restaurants in Germany. And if you're sick of it (which doesn't happen often) you can be in France, Switzerland, Austria and Italy in no time.

Baden, my father was born in Baden (does that make me less Bavarian now? ), is also very nice I must admit. Funny sounding accent and very friendly people. But they don't have real winters, climate is much milder, isn't it?

And the theory about Bavarians feeling closer to Austrians than to let's say Berliners is also true I think.

But still they're coming to Bavaria.

Entwicklungshelfer!

Little surprise ... since Austria was settled by Bavarians a thousand years ago and (most) Austrians are native Bavarian speakers after all

If you want to read a really enjoyable and humerous novel about this topic, I recommend "Na Servus! Wie ich lernte, die Bayern zu lieben", written by a guy from Berlin.
http://www.amazon.de/Servus-Wie-lernte-Bay...n/dp/3499245337
You can also get it at Hugen-Dubel under the Munich/Bayern section.
p.s. it's in German, and really a good idea if you are so-so in German and want a bit of reading practise.

"Its a definate fact that bavarians arent viewed too kindly by people from other parts of germany! They are regarded as arrogant and rude"

sorry but I think Bavarians are much more friendly than in other parts of Germany, where they seem to be more, well... uppity? In fact I don't think I've met friendlier people anywhere so no sure where that view comes from.

"F, it's a real intersting concept. i ws talking about it with a Berliner colleague the other day.
He said the difference is that in Berlin, anyone can "belong" whereas only indeed if your grandparents herded cattle here before the war are you "allowed" to be a local."

I disagree again it took a matter of minutes before I was accepted as a local, maybe I just integrate well. I have been to the old lady's down the road for coffee and cakes and danced with strangers and waiters at Hofbrauhaus, it's great! Hello by the way!