At war with my landlord

Everybody has to live somewhere, so unfortunately everybody has to deal with about the worst kind of people… maklers and landlords. And here I am too, at war with my landlord who wants to withhold a part of my deposit.

It starts with the kitchen. As soon as there was a new tenant found, they told me that the kitchen would be replaced, so I didn’t have to worry about leaving the kitchen in ultimate state. Since I am not there so much, I offered to give a key to the Hausmeister so he could make an appointment with the handyman who was going to install the new kitchen. It took a while before I could give the key, because I am away a lot for work and the Hausmeister is not always there. And the owner of the place, a very old granny, was already complaining that the kitchen could not be built in because nobody can get in. The new kitchen was installed after I left the place, but that was three weeks after I gave the key, so I wonder what the granny was complaining about.

Then the appointment. The lady of the landlord-office thought it was a good idea to meet with the new tenant at the same time, so that would save her time to make two appointments. The appointment was set on 5pm, this was the best time for both me and the new tenant. This was actually not according to their rules, because they want to see the apartment with daylight (so in January that would only be during office hours). But ok, she agreed after I said that there is a light that was already in there when I moved in so I left it there, and she was happy that she could meet me and the new tenant at the same time.
She looked around, wrote her "Übergabeprotokoll" and had all of us sign it. About the kitchen, she wrote down: “a new kitchen will be built in, the fridge stays�. There weren’t any other remarks on the form. It didn’t occur to me though that I already had shut off a part of the power, so if she’d opened the fridge, the smell wouldn’t be the most pleasant one… But, she didn’t check the fridge and it didn’t occur to me at that time that it would probably be smelly in there. Ok, at the end of the appointment I asked her to confirm if everything was allright, since I had never done such a handover in Germany before.

This all happened on the 28th of January...

Today, I received an email in which she explained the fridge situation, and four other points that were broken or not cleaned in the apartment. She said she received an official complaint letter from the owner, the old granny, saying that all these things were not allright. She was quite rude with also blaming me for everything because I didn’t give the key to the Hausmeister in time, that I needed to make the appointment when it was dark outside, and by saying that it doesn’t matter about the Germany thing, because (and I quote) "you wouldn’t be leaving your apartment like a mess in your own country also with a ruined fridge, would you?"

Apparently they had ordered the handyman who has put in the new kitchen to clean the rest and to clean out the fridge. And of course she said that all these costs are going to be deducted from my deposit.

I am so incredibly mad!

First, she agreed on the appointment at dusk. I don’t care if it was against the rules, but if she agreed on it, she can’t use that against me.

Secondly, they ordered the handyman to clean these things without letting me know and therefore not giving me the opportunity to clean it myself. The appointment was at the 28th, so I would have had another three days to do that. Even so, I could have offered a fridge that has been in my basement that I actually want to use in my new apartment (thanks again Ed Bob ), but I would kindly give away and bring over that one to the new tenant because of the old one. Now the handyman has already done that and they’ll pass the bill to me.

Thirdly, she signed the "Übergabe"- form without any comments, it should have been her job to notice the things that the owner thought were broken or not cleaned and giving me the opportunity to fix it. She should have checked the fridge because she wrote down that the kitchen would stay. The state of the fridge didn’t occur to me at that time, otherwise I would have suggested right away to bring over my fridge and give it to him.
I don’t know yet how much these costs are, but it bothers me so much that this granny is trying to take all the advantages for the least money by saying that all these things are broken. I have lived there not even for a year, and she tells me that I ruined her 1-year old fridge (which was a bloody old fridge already) and I ruined the bathtub and it needs a new layer-something.

I am going to the Mieterverein for sure, but maybe someone has some creative ideas to get the most of my deposit back?

She signed the Ãœbergabe, end of the story as far as I am concerned. I hope that German law is equally pragmatic.

When a fridge is turned off the door should be left open.

Really?? While a remarkable observation, its irrelevant since as soon as the landlord (or their Representative) signed the Ãœbergabe the duty to care for the property fell to the landlord.

If she signed the Ubergabe, she cannot come back and ask for money for things that were not agreed to at the Ubergabe.
Fight it! Good luck.

If I remember rightly the landlord has the right, no matter what the dispute to withhold the deposit for up to 6 months, no questions asked. A friend of mine had a similar problem. He used a lawyer and even then it took over six months to get his deposit back. There are some rogue landlords in Munich who always try it one with foreigners. They presume the foreigner doesn't understand the contract, or even better are leaving Germany on a set date. Then returning you deposit becomes a nightmare if you are no longer in Germany. Now take my advice. From past experience "Contracts, Uber whatevers" are just another stalling tactic. Speak with your landlord nicely. Ask her how much she wants to deduct from the deposit for a smelly fridge and depending on the loss take the deal. Or go to a lawyer. not the Munich rent association. Get the lawyer to draft a firm and nasty letter. But then expect to get your money back 6 months later.

I got burned once by the landlord trying to withhold my deposit. So what I did my last house I lived in I just lived out my deposit and didn't pay the last month rent as I had found out the landlord was a rogue landlord. I know this isn't legal, but keeping my deposit wasn't either.

The place I'm living in now my landlord didn't even have the "balls" to even ask me for a deposit because I dropped over 2000 Euros to have a professional painter paint and for other materials to upgrade my flat to bring it up to an inhabitable standard.

Take what is yours and don't ever let bureaucracy stand in the way! These fucks need to be taught a lesson.

A nicely letter? I don't think so... I got blamed quite harsh for lots of things that the representative did wrong.

I figured two things as I was preparing my already a page and a half letter:
- I don't have a contract with this handyman. If he notices things after I don't even have the keys anymore, though shit...
- The handyman came round 4 days after I signed the Ubergabe. What if, worst-case scenario, the new tenant made the place into a complete utter mess within these 4 days?? I know he would't because I know him, but still, it could happen in similar situations.

The smelly fridge business is just an excuse i.m.o. It's way overrated. Presumably there was no food left in it and it was clean, right? A couple of years ago my fridge was in storage for 5 months with the door closed, as I unexpectedly moved around the country. When I finally got it back, sure it smelt. I left the door open for about 3 days, then cleaned it out with soap and water. No smell left, even before the soap and water job really.

thumb in the bottom. whats the problem?

Sent you a P.M. to print off

I just heard that they are going to take this case to court!!

Don't entirely blame them, to be frank. What are the "four other points that were broken or not cleaned", apart from the stinking fridge?

1) I didn't clean out the airvent in the bathroom
2) The bathroom needs a new lightbulb
3) There is mold in the caulking of the tub (that does tend to happen in a tub with caulking that is as old as the building!!). My girlfriend scrubbed that tub with bleach. When I left the flat it was clean as it would every be without replacement.
4) fridge

Edit: But none of this even matters. The fucking bitch of a landlord signed the ubergabe and said everything is ok. Done.

Do not worry about this. Germany are always threatening to go to the police or their lawyer. I suspect that 90% of the time the other party folds in terror at the mention of the word lawyer. Tell them your lawyer had told you that since they signed the ubergabe the matter is closed, they have to return your deposit, and if they go to court they will lose, and have to pay costs.

Do not be intimidated by lawyer and courts. Its a bluff that works sadly too often. When you counter their bluff they'll fold fast enough. Its like bidding high while holding an empty hand in poker. Don't fold, and don't waste money on a lawyer until you get a lawyer's letter from them (which you won't)


There is nothing more to be said. Everything else is totally irrevellant in light of this fact. You've won.

Can't see why the landlord should take this to court, especially since she has the deposit.

What you enumerated are minor issues, no permanent damage. OK, cleaning a defrosted fridge with perhaps mold in it is not fun (I had to do that lately), so I'd offer pay for say 1 h of work, but that's it.

Sparty, you do have a copy of the signed Ãœbergabeprotokoll, don't you?

I'd pull her up on this remark and tell her that it's irrelevant, and then threaten to burn her business down.

I f*cking hate Makles. They're all thieving gypsy b*stards. They'll pull any trick to fleece you. I hate them.

Anyway, good luck with your case!

Yes I do

A short update: I have talked to a very nice lawyer who is a friend of a colleague, and he says that this is a typical behaviour of landlords, that they try to get the most money out of the tenant and not admit their own mistakes. He said as long as I have the Uebergabeprotokoll with the date and signature on it, and the emails that said that they have noticed other things at a later stage, I should be allright. The fact that they had the appointment at dark is their own fault.

I received the overview from the landlord, there was a 135,66 euro deducted from the kaution. I received a copy of the bill as well, and it says that it took this company three hours to clean the fridge, and there's 12 euros for a cleanser on the bill... for just cleaning a fridge...?? In the description it says that there was a 1 cm coat of moist in the fridge. I would say that's a bit overreacting!

EDIT: I can do two things...spend money on a lawyer which would probably be more than 135 euros, or let it be and send a letter/email to the landlord to fuck off and tell them what cunts they are, just to help my own pissed off mood.

forget and live well. this is the best revenge

Get your money back and then get revenge. There is more than one way to skin a cat!

That sounds a lot like barrel-scraping - the landlord realised that he wasn't going to get away with anything more than that. Personally I would take it as "life's too short", get the rest of the money back, write the letter if you really still want to and thank f* that chapter is over. Lessons learnt.

Get your money back, and have your lawyer also hit'em with the legal fees. That way you get both your money back and Revenge.

Where does the landlord live? We'll drink champagne in front of his house on April 19 and leave the sticky glasses on his doorstep.

Go to court mate and see em cringe when they lose.Also it is law that when you get your Kaution back you get a copy of the bankbook its been paid in to as all the interest belongs to you as well.If they have not done this its illegal.Got em by the short and curlies there for a start

"Its the law"...

We see this said all the time on this forum, but we seldom see any written evidence of this law..

Have you any links or info you can post please?

Ta

http://www.mieterbund.de/mietkaution.html?&0=
There you go mate, you need the last paragraph= Kaution + zinsen

We had some landlord issues a while back when we shared the building with them (never a good idea). We joined the local Mietverein (tenant's association) and discovered that all their threats were groundless. As a general rule in Germany, a Mietverein (look it up in your yellow pages) or legal insurance is always worthwhile here. If you have legal insurance, it is more expensive but it then covers everything.