Smoking ban in Berlin

Has the smoking ban had any effect here in Berlin at all?

very very little as far as I can see.

I was in Kilkenny pub earlier and there were people in there smoking.

They are continuing to smoke in most bars and restaurants in Berlin as they will not start controlling until July.

It was strange though, I haven´t come across anything like that in years! Bad memories...

luckily, yes. can't remember any restaurant with smokers since 1st of jan. a bit different in bars and clubs though, but also there: a lot better than before.

All bars I've visited so far has been totally smoked down and no one seemed to care. Really annoying.

Erdbeer has been non-smoking since before the ban took effect, and Belushi's seems to be following the law even without the threat of fines. I've heard second-hand that the former Old Emerald Isle (Murray's?) has separate smoking and non-smoking rooms, but I don't know if they actually have the required airlock between them. Most of the other stories I've heard have been of disregard for the new law.

Most places I've been have separate and smoking and non smoking rooms, or are non smoking. I guess I just choose the places without smoke because I hate it.

Marcellos (Friedenau) last week on a busy night, zero smoke. My first smoke-free experience in Berlin, a bit shocking.

In a lot of places, they are still tolerating smoking. I can certainly attest that there are main bars that either have smoke sections or certain so-called 'smoking corners'. I haven't been to a place yet which doesn't tolerate any smoking.

Let us know if, after looking around thoroughly, there are any places which don't have some kind of smoking area. You'd be surprised especially if you didn't look hard enough!

i was told the fining will not begin until july, so i think we'll have smoke around for another 6 months or so.

Belushi's was completely smoke-free last night. There was a constant group of people smoking outside, and I saw several people from inside walk out with their cigarettes, then come back later. Amazingly, the world did not come to an end, and the place was packed.

as a non- smoker the difference is amazing, i lived here in 93 -2000 and there was bars you simply couldnt breath in i worked in one of them . the old joke used to be "shut the door your letting the smoke out"
now when i see these gangs of smokers freezing there bollox off outside a bar or club
it does make me snigger,shame, wee lambs GET THE MESSAGE 'GIVE UP' IT SMELLS SHIT TASTES SHIT LOOKS SHIT COSTS SHIT LOADS
MAKES YOU WEAK GIVES YOU CANCER(REMEMBER THEY CANT CURE CANCER) SORRY ABOUT THE RANT BUT COME ON ITS TIME TO SEE IT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, WHY BUST DRUG DEALERS AND LET WANX LIKE PHILLIP MORRIS(he sells a weed that you roll up put in a paper and smoke) WALK AROUND,
o.k. i'm finished
gonna go off now and shoot heroin up wif me crack pipe
.

Superfluous information there, think we got the message twenty words prior

mmmmmmmmhh, it was the beer talkin'

So your ranting about peoples health with this smoking mallarky, yet you're out there going hammertime on the alcohol at midday? Tsk tsk. Pot, kettle, blacks and all that

Kilkenny's pub is still a smelly zone. It's amazing that there are pubs still like this around. They should start hitting them with heavy fines.

You can smoke all you want in Irish Times.

Niagra Falls is amazing, as is the grand canyon. People doing something they have been able to do for decades and decades before complete lunacy took over is hardly amazing.

settle down tattie muncher.

i lived in berlin. there was total disreguard for non smoking signs in hospital waiting rooms...yes, people actually smoked in hospitals, and for the underground. imo no matter how many non smoking laws there are or signs posted germans will never inforce or adhere to non smoking laws. i have a bet with my husband on this...i'm already thinking about what i'll buy with the money i will win...

Settle down? Haha. Look. The ban was introduced here a number of years ago and everybody respected it. They went outside and puffed away like they always did. Ban is brought in here and I'm still coming home smelling awful and with a good few minutes taken off my life.

Yeah, I suppose I shouldn't really care, should I.

We will just have to wait till July and see what happens...

Hey, I can respect people's personal choices, and it's not like you're not allowed to smoke outside or in your own home. But smoking in public places affects peoples personal choice NOT to smoke. See, you still get to smoke, and we still get to enjoy a cocktail and not breathe in crap. It's my RIGHT to breathe. It's hardly lunacy. It makes perfect sense if your addiction didn't make you a selfish asshole.

My favorite bar, Schneerot, http://www.schneerot-bar.de, says they're losing money because of the smoking ban. They do have an outside area where you can smoke, but it is small. Same thing is happening in Washington, DC.

When the smell of smoke clears you antis and rest of us will be left with the whiff of feet and puke. Smokerz4life lolz

slighty off topic, I was back in Germany just before the ban and you couldn't walk through the lobby of the hotel without gaging on the smoke, had a bunch of old farts doing a bus tour so they all stood in the lobby smoked and drank coffee before leaving. Same at the Olympia Mall the coffee shop near Eddie Bauer, had great coffee and kuchen but the sheer number of smokers simply ruined the experience. Was back again after the ban and it took a moment to hit that people were popping outside for a quick puff, than I realized what was missing, no smoke. Was wonderful. Smoking is banned in all restaurants over a 100 mtrs in Spain but since most are smaller than that its pretty meaningless, but I don't notice because I tend to eat lunch well before the Spanish do (usually around 12.30 to 1) so the place is usually empty.

Funny cuz in my city at home it's totally fine and smoking has been banned for like 10 years.

Have fun with lung cancer.

You have the personal choice to not smoke - right. So how about you just dont go out and stay at home? you would be doing us all a favour. thanks.


Have fun being a dull nae pals nae fun bam all your life.

Now away and hug a tree or something.

Smoking is a choice not a right. Breathing is a right. I should be able to go out in public and breathe thanks. You just can't see that because people addicted to stuff are selfish.

I lived in Berlin for 4 years and I hated the fact that I came home, had to shower and hang my clothes outside the window to get rid of the smoke smell.

I accepted it as it was ok for people to smoke in bars. Soon this will change and all non-smokers had to accept the smokers will now have to accpet the ban.

Perhaps some will choose not to go out?

However, anyone that stays at home, avoids bars etc just because they cannot smoke there are the people who realy need to stop.

I go to bars to meet friends not to drink alcohol. The day my friends suggested we go to a place that does not serve alcohol and I think 'hmm, not happy about that as I cannt have a beer' it would be timefor me to also start to think if I am developinig a dependency on it and should think about giving up.

@Schotte, thanks for the Rab C type line, Its ages since I wathed that show, I think I'll dig it out and watch the girlfriend get a headache trying to read the subtitles :-)

However hinting that not smoking will leave you perceived as a dull person with no friends, sounds like an advert from a tabaco company. Perhaps its time they banned the advertising of it as well.

I'm with Shane-o. Without smoke, bars just smell like feet and puke. I have friends who are non-smokers and they say the same and have gone so far as to prefer a smoky bar.

I can't actually imagine the German culture without smoking. Just like I can't imagine it without sausages and bread, and old dudes with super-deep, mumbly voices.

BUT, as a smoker, it's not the worst thing in the world. You do end up smoking less in an evening, you just don't get to treat life's simple pleasures (a beer / coffee with a cigarette in hand) as a luxury anymore. Now you get to feel like a sad hurtbag who always has to go outside.

thankfully the ban is not yet seriously being enforced. only in Mitte or schicki places in my experience. Not in Kreuzberg. Can you imagine those turkish cafes with the white neon lighting, nicotine stained walls, and the old dudes playing cards not being allowed to smoke? I have no idea how that's gonna unfold.

Exactly. Great points.

People addicted to stuff are selfish???

That is a very ill-informed statement Venus! Infact, I think its rather insulting.

Us smokers know that the ban is going to happen and will be inforced, so quit whinging about it, and let us have our last few cancer sticks in peace.

I'm sorry I guess I feel really strongly about it because I grew up with asthma and my dad still smoked in the house and it made it worse.

And I didn't mean selfish in general, I meant selfish regarding their addiction. I admit it I'm a huge bitch before I've had my coffee in the morning and I don't consider that fair to other people either if I'm snarky at them cuz I have the caffeine jitters. But I'm not apologizing for my feelings on smoking in indoor, public places.

I totally agree with Venus in Furs on this one. I have asthma and am pregnant, and therefore can't go out in germany other than to Starbucks and a few other cafe's. My pregnancy has strengthened my aversion to cigarette smoke by 100.
And yes, I do think that smokers are selfish, I used to be a selfish smoker myself.
I appreciate that people have an addiction, and I would tolerate a little bit of smoke, but it never is just a little bit because when many smokers drink, they literally smoke one after the other, which is totally unnecessary, and selfish!!! All they need is one an hour or so and the bars wouldnt be nearly as bad.
Oh and by the way, I've been sitting in restaurants, looking obviously pregnant, and people have come in and sat next to me and lit up. Restaurants in Cologne don't even have a non smoking section.
Bring on the ban!!!

I think it's awful too when people smoke around kids, ESPECIALLY their own kids.

For the record, I don't care if people smoke. It's your choice. But I think my choice -not- to smoke should also be respected, and in public places indoors the only way to avoid second hand smoke is to have no smoking at all. I don't mind smoking on the patio. I don't even mind if I'm on the patio or even a well ventalated place and people are smoking around me. And I don't think -all- smokers are assholes or anything like that either. I've known lots of people who are cool with going outside to smoke. I'll even go outside with smoker friends while they smoke cuz it's outside and I don't have to really breathe it, and sometimes it's nice to get some fresh air. I don't see what's so bad about it.

well, i was going to a bar with some friends in Munich on Saturday. When I opened the door I was hit by a wall of smoke. Needless to say I turned around and headed elsewhere. No need to support bars that allow smoking when plenty don't.

As a person with no physical addictions it is hard to understand smoking. And I think it is like that for anyone who has never smoked. Smoking for non-smokers seems illogical and strange. Why would anyone willingly take a dangerous cocktail of chemicals into their bodies on a regular basis? How can a simple dried plant wrapped in paper take precedence over your health, your children's health and the health of those around you? How can smelly clothing, hair, breath and skin be good. What is so good about brown rotting teeth? How can the costs be justified?
A non-smoker will never be able to understand these things and the ongoing debate between the two will never be solved as will the debate concerning smoking bans. I imagine that a cigarette must be the single most amazing thing a person can take regular pleasure in and I also imagine it takes more personal strength to quit than most smokers have. It is too bad they are so incredibly disgusting to us non-smokers otherwise we would be fine.

I agree

And like I said I don't mind if people choose to smoke, just like I don't care if people choose to do drugs or whatever. I just don't like when it affects me

Um, yeah, the ban is already on the books. Just because they're not fining anyone doesn't mean it's okay to ignore the law, especially when you're irritating and harming those around you in the process.

As a smoker myself, I say bring the ban on. There are many benefits:
Ya end up smoking less, which does the bank balance a wee bit of good.
It's get the sanctimonious shower of non-smoking cunts off yer back, as you're no longer infringing their right to breathe.
The aforementioned shower can no longer generally wreck yer head/inform you of the ills of smoking/lecture you...etc re: your own personal choice.
And finally, the most craic is to be had out with the smokers, as can be seen in pubs all across Dublin for instance, where the "beer gardens" are full of smokers and non-smokers alike.

"Only mad, cool cunts smoke, na mean?"-Christopher Isherwood

jtw can you honestly say you have never broken, or ignored any laws?

Thank God a little bit of Berliner rebellion is still alive and well, and the smoking ban is being largely ignored. It's caused a significant downturn here in the UK ... less people are in the pubs and clubs ( which now smell of feet, cheese and onion crisps and cheap scent), the non-smokers hate it because they are constantly abandoned by their friends every twenty minutes, loads of bars have shut, bar workers have been fired, gigs have a totally diferent atmosphere.
The whole sanctimonious nonsense about "my right to breathe" is ridiculous coming from anyone who lives in a built-up urban area. A walk down Oxford Street in London has been scientifically proven to be the equivalent of smoking two cigarettes. Berlin's air quality is even worse, especially in the East. So how about live and let live with the smokers, and do something a bit more radical instead ... LIKE BAN CARS? It's crazy to see a smug non-smoker walk through Los Angeles, London, Beijing or Berlin congratulating themselves on their new-found ability to breathe, whilst sucking in huge lungfuls of car, bus, etc fumes.

And I have to agree with Schotte ... you're right, fella, a disproportionate amount of interesting people smoke, whilst God knows a lot of non-smokers' idea of a wild night out is to sit in a Starbucks.

I find myself, against all logic, agreeing with this statement

Wow, hands down the most idiotic thing I have read from anyone on this forum, and saying it seriously makes it even worse. Smoking never made anyone interesting since the 40's (just pathetic). Once the dust (or smoke) settled, restaurant owners loved the smoking ban back home when they realized that a whole new segment of society, namely non-smokers, (and a much larger one than the smokers) suddenly patronized their establishments. So stop it with this "bad for business" BS and the selfish rights of a handful of weak minded cancerous individuals. If you can learn to enjoy it when someone is waving toxic dog shit under your nose when you are trying to enjoy a meal, then we'll talk. On top of that, us non-smokers have to support your inflated and increased medical bills, sick days from work and having to stand or sit anywhere near your stinking carcases.

Roman,

You know I'm a non-smoker, and I agree with you for the most part. I don't believe smoking bar is "bad for business" as the statistics trotted out by bar owners are typically comparing low season revenue to high season revenue, rather than on a year on year comparison.

But, as far as the increased medical bills, here's where I'm starting to waver. About a month of so ago, the Netherlands National Institute for Public Health and the Environment did a study which was funded by the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports (medicine.plosjournals.org), and looked at the annual and lifetime costs attributable to smoking. Under their simulation models, lifetime health spending on smokers was about 220,000 euros. Healthy (non-smokers, BMI btw 18.5-25) - 281,000. While year on year costs were higher for smokers, lifetime spending was higher for healthy people. The reason? The smokers had a significantly lower lifespan - about seven years (84.4 years vs 77.4).

Bottom line, I'm not quite convinced at the moment the medical bills argument works. But the all the other arguments work for me. Especially the one about how I don't want to have to smell like smoke when I come home, nor do I particularly care about getting second hand exposure.

an anecdote from my neighborhood...
nearby there is a cafe called Lenz. Its an institution - especially with the '68 revolutionaries. Excellent coffee and smoke so thick you cant find your way to the bathroom. Last fall, one of the long time Lenz waitresses got lung cancer. No shit. Lenz decided on their own accord to go non smoking back in October because it was the right thing to do. It's not fair to employees that they work in such an environment with constant passive smoke.