High costs of starting an apartment rental in NRW

I moving to the West coast of NRW, to work for one of the military bases. I've been told that rental companies charge "finders fees" equal up to 2 months rent. The person I spoke with said she had to pay the landlord, the first months rent, and the last. Then she had to pay 2000 Euro to the place that found her the rental. Can this really be correct? It seems like a scam to me.

Julie

It is a scam.

But it's also true.

So what is a standard finders fee for most agents? What should I anticipate paying? My monthly rent should be around 900Euros.

You don't understand. The whole agent thing is a scam, not just that one.

Mind the Germans getting the sunloungers on the beach!

It's normal to pay 2 month rent to the makler that organises the house/flat deal in many cases, yes.

Not to mention a security deposit of up to 3 months rent, as allowed per law. so that could be another 2,700 out the door. They company/person renting to you has to put the deposit (Kaution) in an interest bearing account, as far as I understood, so the money isn't totally idle.

What is "rent"?

Past tense/participle of "rend", obviously.

Ok, so its not a "coast", border perhaps was the right word. Maybe I should live in the Netherlands then? It just seems insane to pay someone that much for simply finding you a house. If you contact someone through the paper or internet do you cut out the middle man and this outrageous fee?

If you rent directly from the owner/landlord there's no fee (Provision) but you still have to pay a deposit (Kaution), usually two or three months' rent.

I don't know what the case is now, or in the rest of the country (besides Munich), but if you're not already there, it can be quite difficult to get a place without the Makler's fee. It costs nothing to the landlord to use an agency to find tenants, and it saves the landlord the advertising, apartment showing, and sometimes a lot of the sifting through applications. So a lot of the landlords use them. It might be just the same in the Netherlands, too.

If you think paying three months' deposit, plus two months' finder's fee is a lot, just to move in to an apartment, you'd better be sure to get a place with a built-in kitchen. Otherwise, you'll be paying that up front, too.

Wah-ha-ha-ha...just to round it off, you will probably have to repaint/repaper the walls yourself and you will definitely be putting up your own light fixtures.

(I believe you are from the UK, so maybe that is standard fare there. Not in the States, from whence I hail...it was a pretty good shock all the work we put into someone else's property).

Quite seriously, it is good to know up front what is required of you on the "remodeling" side. Some places require you to repaint the place upon moving out. If you can, it is better to arrange to paint it yourself upon moving in (i.e better quality / more to your liking or style) - then you don't have to jack with it upon moving out.

Some places you can ge without paying the agents fees, particuarly if it is a large corporate landlord that rent out loads of places.
But amy small landlords don't want the hassle so get these guys. And demand is often so high that they can charge a fortune.

It's just the other way round to the UK where I have to pay 10% of the income of the house I rent out to an agent who finds the tenants.

Actually, depending on where you move to in NRW-land, finding a place without a "makler" is comparatively easy...you're still looking at a three months deposit to the landlord/-lady and possible redecoration costs.

We were only required to pay two-months rent as deposit. It is not legally set at three months, but the landlord can adjust it at his discretion.

We found our place through the local paper. One option to circumvent the agents.

Also, if you are in a decent negotiating position, you may be able to work in that some of the costs for redecoration are footed by the landlord. Depends how desperate they are, I suppose.

I appreciate all your advice. I don't have a problem paying a few months rent as a deposit, as I get that back. I can also probably handle putting in some sorta 1000Euro kitchen if I have to, but 2,000 Euro for a couple days work to a renting agency makes me want to throw up.

I'm American who has been living in the UK the last 4 years, and I suppose I'm just not used to the German way. I'll try the newspapers and also the base I'm working at. I don't want an apartment definately going to try to get a house.

The whole bring your own kitchen thing, is interesting. Do people then when they move out, take the kitchen off the wall and bring it with them? I've also been reading all the posts on bringing a Skybox, so hopefully, I can make that work as well.

-Sorry I'm new to all this.

Julie (Moving to NRW in March)

Makes me sick too.. we paid 2 grand to one of these fuckers and she did absolutely nothing for this money.. and a lot of people do indeed rip the kitchen from the wall and take it with them. It's really crazy, but I'm sure it's all come about from the fact that many people over here rent their whole lives. If you want a nice kitchen, you have to put one in.

I had the same problem. Fortunately, I bumped across zwischenmiete.de just in time and found a decent apartment - broker / agent free. Hope that helps.

-
Bandu.

If you know some German, this website is o.k.: www.immobilienscout24.de

you can specify apartments or houses and zip code, not to mention plenty of other criteria.

We found our place through the paper, but that site is good to get an idea of what is out there and a general feel for market prices.
I believe there is an option to search only for places with EBK (Einbaukueche = built-in kitchen...some of the folks here are getting the idea).

Of course a lot of the contacts there are the shitty Makler.

Hi Julie,

Also note that there is a difference between "cold" and "hot" rent, where the price listed might not include the nebenkosten (building maintenance, maybe some utils), and some places not only have no kitchen, but no floors, light fixtures, mirrors, etc.

And the 2 months "finders fee" is normal if you go through an agent, plus getting back all of your deposit can be a nightmare. You also have to paint the apartment when you move out.

Good luck!

Grr one of the aspects of Germany that I hate.. The Maklerkosten. Can't understand why the germans put up with this shit. I went to see a place
a few years ago, through a makler who wanted a couple of Grand of course. I really liked the place but wanted my girlfriend to see it first. The
makler would not meet up on a saturday morning to show me it. Makes me sick too... they do absolutely bugger all for their money. If you look
on immobilienscout, around 75 per cent of ads are through Maklers. You can usually tell from the ad straight away, either there is no photo or there is one photo showing
the pissing toilet or the tiles of the bathroom floor. Usually out of focus or the reflection of the prick taking the photo appears in the bathroom mirror.

As you can tell.. I don't like Maklers... A tip to the threadstarter... We got our current place through a Wohnungsbaugenossenschaft. There you
pay no Maklerkosten and your deposit is actually a membership for the organisation which you get back when you move out (min two years though)
with interest.

I'm currently looking for a place in Muenster and have been going though the Westfaelische Nachrichten trying to find advertised apartmetns with no Makler involved. It'd make me puke to have to hand over 2.4 times the rent

OP, the link above might also cover the area you are looking for. Are there any other similar papers with ads online covering this part of NRW? We're making a list of people to call before we go on a scouting mission in two weeks time and we'd better find something in that week or we're screwed!

You could try the classified ads on quoka.de.
Also, zwischenmiete.de and wg-gesucht.de have lots of provision-free listings, of a pretty wide range of places (not all WGs or Zwischenmiete despite the name!).

I live in Essen Where is "the west coast of NRW"? I had a friend who gave me a whole list rental sites and I had another friend who called adverts from the newspaper. I have never heard this thing of 3,000 Euros. Run don't walk! If I can help you feel free to send me a private message.

P.S. I found lots of info on a site called How To Germany
Also, there are also several threads here about renting.

According to german housing law you can pay the deposit (Kaution) over a three month period. A lot of landlords may not agree to do this, however, it is the law. What you have to do is to let them know you are fully aware of German housing laws when you discuss the deposit and other issues about the flat.

In Spain (Madrid anyways) the standard is one months rent and one months deposit, as well the agency provides a helping hand in sorting everything out. They helped us with sorting out the utilities, provided a key when I lost mine and so on. Moving and renting in Germany is insanely expensive. As we thought we might be moving back to Munich I did some checking and 98% of adds were with maklers.