GERMANY SAYS 'NO'
Berlin Rejects Washington Call for Troops on Taliban Front
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and senior members of her government are rejecting a call by US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to send Bundeswehr combat troops to Taliban hotspots in Afghanistan. Merkel's spokesman says the existing Afghanistan mandate is not open for discussion ...
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Munich Conference on Security Policy
Plus all the usual protests, 8-10.Feb.2008
Yeah I just read that. Can't say I'm surprised in the Germans being a bunch of pussies.
QUOTE (Sin @ Feb 1 2008, 3:19 pm) 
OK. I'm still not informed. Does anybody know who actually foots the bill for this conference to be held in Munich, together with the costs of policing?
Very good of you to ask.
If you want facts I am sure BadDoggie can find the ones you need.
There's a lot more to the Security Conference than the pretext security.
It is not about security. There is no security.
Maybe its not because they're a bunch of pussies but because they ain't a bunch of arseholes.
QUOTE (belgianpraline @ Feb 1 2008, 2:12 pm)
Security Conference is funded via ... the ministry for defense.
Are you suggesting it would be better for, say the TÜV or perhaps the Einwohnermeldeamt to handle a security conference?
And as to your claim that it's funded by anyone in the armaments industry, please cite your source. Attendees are ministers, representatives of the armed forces, members of parliament, journalists and experts.
<boggle>
woof.
No sources mentioned on TT.
Got to keep my sources secure.
Got to keep my sources secure.
QUOTE (belgianpraline @ Feb 1 2008, 3:55 pm)
It is not about security. There is no security.
But...
the whole problem with the security industry is that you only need security to protect you from the kind of people who work in the security industry in the first bloody place. I mean, let's be bluntly honest here, if you ain't any good for doing anything, and you can't teach anything and you don't know anything about marketing or public relations, and you're too old and fat to be cannon fodder and steal things at gunpoint for the rich people playing politics, then you're going to end up either unemployed or a security guard. Total and utter waste of money.
I half-heard on the radio news that the demonstration as planned has been forbidden but may take place somewhere else.
Like Riem.
Like Riem.
QUOTE (Bumpy @ Feb 1 2008, 3:53 pm)
... Can't say I'm surprised in the Germans being a bunch of pussies ...
Maybe they checked their history books for "successful" invasions of Afghanistan ...
Revealed: British plan to build training camp for Taliban fighters in Afghanistan
You wanna stop listening to Beckstein's Volkssender Sarabyrd.
SZ reported to day, the DIRECT route from Marienplatz to Odeonsplatz has been blocked by the KVR on the advice of the police but another city centre route proposed. The march organisers are considering a last minute court appeal which would take place on Wednesday.
Either way, town WILL be busy on Saturday.
SZ reported to day, the DIRECT route from Marienplatz to Odeonsplatz has been blocked by the KVR on the advice of the police but another city centre route proposed. The march organisers are considering a last minute court appeal which would take place on Wednesday.
Either way, town WILL be busy on Saturday.
Sorry, was radio 2Day, not Beckstein3. And I said I had half-heard it.
Is 2day still going? Is it still sort of commercial dance music with that American DJ? Mike something?
I don't know what these morans are on but using the famous U-Bahn video to make a point has a. been done, b. been sharply criticized, c. become stale. No one is even going to look at that poster because they'll all think it's the CSU up to their old tricks. And it's in bad taste whatever political direction it comes from.
There can never be security.
There can only be peace.
There can only be peace.
If you want peace. Prepare for war.
So...What exactly is being protested?
I don't know, but down with this sort of thing!
QUOTE (Source unspecified)
Appeal of the Action-Alliance against the NATO-Security-Conference 2008
They talk of „security“.
We call it war, torture and terror.
They speak of „security“, but their politics mean war, torture and militarization.
The „Security-Conference“ in München is a meeting of military strategists, government representatives, generals and arms industry lobbyists. Entrenched behind security barriers, water cannons and a gigantic police force, each year EU- and NATO-representatives gather in order to plan wars, international military strategies and arms business. Thus, this conference prepared the wars of aggression against Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Irak and made central decisions for the so called „global war against terror“.
No foreign interventions of the German military – Against all German support of war
The economically and politically powerful of the world claim the right to unhampered access to markets and commodities on the entire globe. And they enforce their economic interests and ambitions for power with military violence. The occupation wars of the NATO-states and their allies, that were lead under the slogan of fighting terror, are themselves terror against the people: displacement, destruction, rapes as well as the reintroduction of institutionalized torture as seen in Guantanamo and secret prisons.
The NATO-wars and occupation regimes escalate conflicts worldwide; self-determined reconstruction and democratic development don't have a chance.
Against war and torture – For a free and self-determined life of all people
The renewed militarization of German foreign policy has long lead to a militarization of the interior. The politics of the preemptive „security“-state further the dismounting of the civil rights of all citizens via data retention of phone calls, spying on pc-data, preventive custody, surveillance of public places and private homes. Anti-militarists are being systematically confronted with repression and criminalization by the political paragraph 129a, as done by massive raids before and after the G8-summit in Rostock. And we witness military intervention in the interior, namely soldiers, scout tanks and Tornado combat aircrafts against the protests in Heiligendamm 2007. In Hof (Bavaria) the military is granted domestic authority during the security conference for years now.
Against the surveillance-state – For freedom of expression and civil rights
We fight against a system of power, that is based on profit and that - in times of war and peace alike - tramples dead bodies underfoot, against a system of violent closure of EU-borders against migrants and refugees. Included are the racist and xenophobic legislation for foreigners in Germany, the abolition of the right to asylum, deadly baits and assaults and the organized mass-deportations of refugees to the war zones of Afghanistan and Irak from all over Europe.
Fighting the reasons for taking refuge - Open borders for refugees and migrants instead of barbed wire and camps
Let's show these self-proclaimed rulers of the world and war-strategists: You are not wanted, neither here in München nor anywhere else. We resist and protest everywhere, against your politics of neoliberal economic dominance and exploitation, of rearmament and social cuts, because another world is possible – a just society, a peaceful world without war and torture.
Instead of social dismantling and rearmament – redistribution from the top to the bottom
We call on you: Get involved, participate in the multifaceted protests and counter-events in München! The protests and blockades of Heiligendamm against the G8-summit have shown, that we are successful. Despite entrenched zones and demo-prohibition, with means of civil disobedience and acts of resistance tens of thousands successfully blockaded the access routes to the summit. In February we will clarify: Criminals of war and advocates of torture will meet resistance and protest in München.
No justice, no peace!
Join the demonstration and further acts of resistance the 9th of February in München!
They talk of „security“.
We call it war, torture and terror.
They speak of „security“, but their politics mean war, torture and militarization.
The „Security-Conference“ in München is a meeting of military strategists, government representatives, generals and arms industry lobbyists. Entrenched behind security barriers, water cannons and a gigantic police force, each year EU- and NATO-representatives gather in order to plan wars, international military strategies and arms business. Thus, this conference prepared the wars of aggression against Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Irak and made central decisions for the so called „global war against terror“.
No foreign interventions of the German military – Against all German support of war
The economically and politically powerful of the world claim the right to unhampered access to markets and commodities on the entire globe. And they enforce their economic interests and ambitions for power with military violence. The occupation wars of the NATO-states and their allies, that were lead under the slogan of fighting terror, are themselves terror against the people: displacement, destruction, rapes as well as the reintroduction of institutionalized torture as seen in Guantanamo and secret prisons.
The NATO-wars and occupation regimes escalate conflicts worldwide; self-determined reconstruction and democratic development don't have a chance.
Against war and torture – For a free and self-determined life of all people
The renewed militarization of German foreign policy has long lead to a militarization of the interior. The politics of the preemptive „security“-state further the dismounting of the civil rights of all citizens via data retention of phone calls, spying on pc-data, preventive custody, surveillance of public places and private homes. Anti-militarists are being systematically confronted with repression and criminalization by the political paragraph 129a, as done by massive raids before and after the G8-summit in Rostock. And we witness military intervention in the interior, namely soldiers, scout tanks and Tornado combat aircrafts against the protests in Heiligendamm 2007. In Hof (Bavaria) the military is granted domestic authority during the security conference for years now.
Against the surveillance-state – For freedom of expression and civil rights
We fight against a system of power, that is based on profit and that - in times of war and peace alike - tramples dead bodies underfoot, against a system of violent closure of EU-borders against migrants and refugees. Included are the racist and xenophobic legislation for foreigners in Germany, the abolition of the right to asylum, deadly baits and assaults and the organized mass-deportations of refugees to the war zones of Afghanistan and Irak from all over Europe.
Fighting the reasons for taking refuge - Open borders for refugees and migrants instead of barbed wire and camps
Let's show these self-proclaimed rulers of the world and war-strategists: You are not wanted, neither here in München nor anywhere else. We resist and protest everywhere, against your politics of neoliberal economic dominance and exploitation, of rearmament and social cuts, because another world is possible – a just society, a peaceful world without war and torture.
Instead of social dismantling and rearmament – redistribution from the top to the bottom
We call on you: Get involved, participate in the multifaceted protests and counter-events in München! The protests and blockades of Heiligendamm against the G8-summit have shown, that we are successful. Despite entrenched zones and demo-prohibition, with means of civil disobedience and acts of resistance tens of thousands successfully blockaded the access routes to the summit. In February we will clarify: Criminals of war and advocates of torture will meet resistance and protest in München.
No justice, no peace!
Join the demonstration and further acts of resistance the 9th of February in München!
Maybe there is a way to put some patriotic music to your post. Have you been listening to a lot of campaign speeches of late? Nice style.
take care,
space
take care,
space
@ space:
URGENTLY NEEDED: accommodation for people protesting on Saturday at the GROSSDEMO against the SKO (Sicherheitskonferenz)
Just for one night! Sofas, cellars, garden sheds, whatever!
Please call 08952350983 (central office) and offer PENNPLÄTZE (pennen = to sleep)
You will make someone (who has traveled a long way out of commitment) very very happy.
Thanks a million for your kindness.
URGENTLY NEEDED: accommodation for people protesting on Saturday at the GROSSDEMO against the SKO (Sicherheitskonferenz)
Just for one night! Sofas, cellars, garden sheds, whatever!
Please call 08952350983 (central office) and offer PENNPLÄTZE (pennen = to sleep)
You will make someone (who has traveled a long way out of commitment) very very happy.
Thanks a million for your kindness.
My position does not allow me to be any part of any protests.
take care,
space
take care,
space
If you and your ilk spent more time working for a living you could afford hotels.
There's a parade on at the Stachus right this minute.
Cheering for more war, more exploitation and "totale Überwachung" and more.
Music, food, jolliness ...
To get people in the mood for the war conference tomorrow.
Anti-war proclamation this evening on the Marienplatz.
Cheering for more war, more exploitation and "totale Überwachung" and more.
Music, food, jolliness ...
To get people in the mood for the war conference tomorrow.
Anti-war proclamation this evening on the Marienplatz.
Booked out, sweetheart.
Every hotel in Munich is booked out? Not the most intelligent bunch your lot really are they.
Well as they'll probably be arrested anyway why dont they just turn up at the police station right when they get here. At least that way it'll save the police loads of time with akward questioning, water cannons and baton charging!
Well as they'll probably be arrested anyway why dont they just turn up at the police station right when they get here. At least that way it'll save the police loads of time with akward questioning, water cannons and baton charging!
Which sounds to me like the most intelligent way to counter passive resistance...
Now you know what the conference is about! Good thinking!
Now you know what the conference is about! Good thinking!
Isn't it embarassing to be such a naive hippie?
QUOTE (belgianpraline @ Feb 8 2008, 8:16 am)
this conference prepared the wars of aggression against Yugoslavia, Afghanistan
Not sure the Bosnian Muslims, or the women in Afghanistan (who can now enjoy an education) would agree...
Ooooh, we saw some protesters in hoodies being chased down Briennerstrasse by cops in heavy equipment yesterday evening. The cops gave up after about 20 m.
I totally forgot about this, I never really notice it anyway every year anyway.
It wasn't until I got back into town this morning and saw all the cop cars with nothing to do that I remembered this was on.
It wasn't until I got back into town this morning and saw all the cop cars with nothing to do that I remembered this was on.
Ah, it's all over now! What a pity, no more protesting for a while. Good turn out and a great audience filming us with their phallic paraphernalia which - alas - was not implemented. Everyone was very peaceful and docile. Oh, gideon, I'm sorry you feel embarrassed. I'm sure you'll get over it.
The Eine-Welt-Haus organise lots of peace demonstrations, so hopefully I'll see you all at the next one. A bientôt mes chers amis.
The Eine-Welt-Haus organise lots of peace demonstrations, so hopefully I'll see you all at the next one. A bientôt mes chers amis.
QUOTE (belgianpraline @ Feb 11 2008, 10:31 pm)
Ah, it's all over now!
So... did we decide what we want and which little brown people are going to be dying so we can get it?
Of course! We have the time and the compassion!
QUOTE (Eastender @ Feb 8 2008, 7:59 pm)
Not sure the Bosnian Muslims, or the women in Afghanistan (who can now enjoy an education) would agree...
I wonder how the OP would characterize the butchery of the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo? I guess she thinks mass murder like that carried out in Sebrenica should have garnered a laissez-faire response, no? How dare foreign troops get their boots dirty in order to prevent genocide!
The coppers were well over the top in the Marienplatz on Saturday afternoon, one guy got arrested for giving the finger to a copper. Carted off in those plastic cuffs.
He got arrested because giving the finger to anyone in Germany is a crime. Simple as that. I can't see how that's "well over the top".
I thought it was 'over the top' because there was nobody else around, he was on his own and there were dozens of coppers just itching to put the cuffs on someone.
And you can be damn sure that he wasn't just a chap out doing his weekend shopping and decided to flip off the plod as he was passing by.
Well if what you say is true nickyboy, in that scenario anybody who gives the middle-finger salute to a bunch of restless cops deserves to be arrested just on the grounds of being a total idiot. Generally speaking, any bunch of cops - and especially those armed to the hilt and primed for conflict - aren't going to take being flipped off very casually.
QUOTE (nickyboy @ Feb 12 2008, 12:27 pm)
I thought it was 'over the top' because there was nobody else around, he was on his own and there were dozens of coppers just itching to put the cuffs on someone.
It was over the top that the officers presant (a lot) arrested the offender (singular)? What were they meant to do? Draw straws to see who got to knick him? Just proves how idioticly stupid all this bunch of "protesters" are.
What they should have done was give the soap-dodging scumbag fucktard a damn good slapping and save on the paperwork. A little hands-on attitude realignment.
The problem with this bunch of peace-nicks, is that they are usualy from safe secure middle class backgrounds. It's their way of rebelling against daddy and mama. The actual idea of getting involved in the real nitty gritty of being part of the solution to world problems is abohrent to them. They should be sent to do aid work in crisis regions. Protest in Dafur against the war lords prehaps?
QUOTE (belgianpraline @ Feb 11 2008, 10:31 pm)
Ah, it's all over now! What a pity, no more protesting for a while.
What a PITY? You're disappointed that there's nothing to protest against?! So the world is now perfect?
You have done a far, far better job of proving the point I initially made than I ever could: you're not protesting a specific organisation or idea, you're just there to protest against something -- anything -- as long as you're out there with a bunch of others trying to do the same thing, which is to say, nothing really, since your "protest" was about as meaningful as a rally against the forces of gravity and electroweak. Absolutely fucking pointless.
woof.
The guy was ignorant of the law and committed a crime so yes, he should be charged with that crime.
The fact that flipping off a cop is a crime in this country is pretty lame though.
EDIT: belgianpraline, for the record, I support anyone who takes a stand for what they believe in. I don't know or care what it is you believe in but I think it's a good thing that you're out there doing something about it rather than sitting with your thumb up your ass watching the world go by.
The fact that flipping off a cop is a crime in this country is pretty lame though.
EDIT: belgianpraline, for the record, I support anyone who takes a stand for what they believe in. I don't know or care what it is you believe in but I think it's a good thing that you're out there doing something about it rather than sitting with your thumb up your ass watching the world go by.
What makes you think he was ignorant of the law, ER? Was that stated somewhere?
Is that relevant to my point?
QUOTE (Eleanor Rigby @ Feb 12 2008, 12:49 pm)
The fact that flipping off a cop is a crime in this country is pretty lame though.
Actually, flipping off anybody is a crime. And I totally agree with you: it's a bit silly, but so are a lot of laws in Germany.
Full disclosure: As most everybody on the forum knows, I'm a bit biased because my boyfriend is a Munich police officer who frequently works at these 'protests' and has to put up with a bunch of absolute nonsense from people* who don't seem to be there for any real reason apart from deliberately provoking the cops and starting trouble. In which case I wish the cops would not only arrest them, but kick some sense into them as well.
* I'm not saying all protesters are like this, but there's always a fairly large handful of them who aren't just there to promote world peace or save the whales or whatever.
Yes. Ignorant of the law and he should be charged, sure. Not ignorant of the law and it just further demonstrates how stupid he is. Although, I guess that's a given anyway.
I don't really get why but ok, if it's relevant, I made an assumption that he was ignorant to the law but whether or not he's ignorant doesn't change the fact that he commited the crime and should be charged with it.
QUOTE (Eleanor Rigby @ Feb 12 2008, 12:49 pm)
I support anyone who takes a stand for what they believe in. I don't know or care what it is you believe in but I think it's a good thing that you're out there doing something about it rather than sitting with your thumb up your ass watching the world go by.
But she didnt did she? We're not talking Tiannemen Square and tanks here. She was never in any danger, never in any position to test her resolve nor challenge anything, apart from how long she could go without a bath. The fact that she posts "oopps all over ta ta - and off I fly to Edingburgh on Uncles platinum card" just shows how unreal the whole protest was for her. Some of us go to football matches, others demos by the looks of it. Agreed she wasn't sitting with her thumb in her arse. She was probably standing.
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