The smoking ban in Germany is simply pathetic

Read this in the Observer.. Nazi claim as Germans rebel over smoking ban

I see many cafes and bars are now erecting tents outside for smokers. Which wouldnt be permitted in UK since it counts rightly as an enclosed public space.

Also smoking outside on cafe terraces is allowed! I like to be able to sit outside in the fresh air and not have stinky cigarette exhaust from people's lungs blowing over onto me.

I thought smoking was going to be banned on restaurant/bar/cafe premises. Like it is in UK, US, Hong Kong, Singapore and other advanced parts of the developed world. But no..

Also to my surprise I noticed actually people smoking in large indoor shopping malls here! Indoors - where people have to breathe their smoke exhaust. Great.

And Berlin not even enforcing the ban until the summer...?!?! Wont be going there in a hurry then.

Smoking ban my arse. Its just pathetic.

Give them all nicotine-flavoured dummies to suck on!

There's a plethora of threads on this already.

As for structures not being allowed to be attached to pubs in the Uk, have you been recently? Also been discussed at length.

Smoking IS legally banned in restaurants, cafes and bars open to the general public.

As predicted. The militants can never be satisfied - thanks for proving us all right

Militant non-smokers? What about militant smokers? Take away their imagined "right" to poison others' breathing air and they start crying like spoilt babies.

Quick edit there.

If there had been agreement to separate rooms where possible or an exception for tiny one room street corner pubs, the smokers wouldn't be on the streets.

I was told that although the ban is in force now in force, the prosecutions wont start till June, is that right??

Mind you, I was told that by the table of smokers in my local, some of whom were staff.

Depending on the jurisdiction, smoking bans will come into force at different times, will differ in what they ban.
A period of grace during which the law is valid and violators will get warnings may apply.
Whether local authorities have the capability or the desire to especially fine transgressors is another issue.

The militant smokers are out in force today. "You WILL breathe our smoke!" "We have some sort of right to do what we want!" "We don't care about people around us!"

I dont think the inconsiderate smokers are getting the message.

Ah it's nice to see a fresh thread for everyone to fight on. Hazza, HelterSkelter, MonksTown, Firelane - come on in, the water's lovely.

Yes, I'm a "militant smoker" if I am forced to smoke OUTSIDE and do so. You non-smokers wanted the inside smoke free? You got it. Until a law in Germany is passed that states that there is no smoking within "X meters" of a building or doorway, stay inside and like it.

I can understand all you smokers, it must be a pain to have to go outside.
But the health benefit arguments are rock solid regards passive smoking.

I guess "N'er the twain shall meet" as Rudyard Kipling once said.

yeah, I really can't be bothered anymore. Absolutely everything has been said, and we'll all just have to wait and see who is right

I think any further 'debate' will just be me linking back to previously made posts in order to save time, since I think both sides have gone in several circles at this point.

Agreed.

Er no, not really. It's just an easy thing to stigmatise. There are other stivities with a greater risk to the general public but if they were banned we would have a problem living.

But this is sooooooooooooooo boring. Non-smokers you've got your wish and it is a good compromise. Accept it. Shut up and get on with picking on someone else.

For all those militant anti smokers whinging about this and that. Why don't those of you who drive a car stay at home and sit in the garage with the engine running. That way you will only get fumes from your car which is obviously fine and healthy and much better for you than nasty cigarette smoke. Smoking is an addiction (one I am in the process of giving up) whereas driving 500m to the supermarket is being a lazy bastard.

I hate to be involved in re-hashing this topic, but what is the OP on about? Having been to the UK several times since the ban came in, there are loads of pubs there now that have outside tents and semi-enclosed areas for smokers. Ditto for terraces and beer gardens in the UK and Ireland - where has OP been that´s banned outdoor smoking? Did he somehow think that smoking was going to be made illegal?

apologies again for keeping this thread acive

Dennis Leary covered this topic perfectly in his "No Cure For Cancer" show many many years ago... If you are gong to go over old ground, at least show a little bit of creativity when doing so

Bill Hicks, now there's a guy you can respect when it comes to smoking...

Yep, they can't put those cigs down! I was at the hairdresser today and there was a woman smoking in the beauty salon. This was extremely annoying for me. I'm going to have to let the salon owner know if this happens again she will be losing a customer. I will find a salon that's smoke free.

You comment on a quick edit, yet you yourself completely ignore the context of OP's post:

i dont feel sorry at all for smokers. For decades i had to put up with their rude behaviuour. Call it Karma if you wiil. They deserve being out smoking in the cold. It will help them get warmed

only idiots compare non smokers to Hitler and Franco. Poor excuse

SPIEGEL: KEEP ON PUFFIN'

All this watering-down of already-weak legislation confirms in my mind that the legislation was rushed in too quickly. Germans are pretty slow to adapt to change (not necessarily a poor attribute), and so the fact that virtually all other western European countries have now banned smoking is not sufficient to placate your average German smoker.

In Bavaria, allowing smoking in "smoking clubs" and then the farcical backing-down over Oktoberfest are the two biggest weaknesses in the legislation. They should have done what has worked elsewhere: an outright ban, in all places all of the time, but introduced a year or two down the line.

Whatever the law is here, Tokyo's law is a bit tougher...

Five stars!

I dont smoke, well the odd cigar perhaps 3 or 4 a year. I do not like a smoky atmosphere, but I feel the way smokers have been treated is a disgrace. Rooms could have been provided for them in many places, and the way governments have done it is a pity. they are happy to take the tax so have not banned selling them yet. When I am in England every smoker I see has fags from abroad so they will never stop it nor should they. People should be free to make their own mind up, and rooms could be provided without putting non smokers in in a smoky atmosphere.

I don't want to rekindle any debate, just wanting to give perhaps a different view. I saw in the first post it mentioned that smoking is illegal in and around buildings in the US. This is not true. It's actually up to each US state to decide what the law is governing smoking in public, there is no federal level law on this.

Now there my be states that have a law as you state, I'm only really familiar with New York State because that's where I live. A few years back (2003/4/5ish, can't recall) NYS enacted a law to make it illegal to smoke inside a public building, including all clubs, bars and cafes. This was met by a huge outcry because for years (at least 20+ years) smokers were usually given there own place or side of the room anyway so it most cases it really didn't affect nonsmokers. For example, ANY diner or restraunt you went to had a smoking and non-smoking section. At bars this was a little less true and some of the smaller bars could be very disgusting with smoke by the end of the night. This is still true though, most small, local bars with regular patrons allow the regular patrons to smoke in the bar (as long as there aren't too many newcomer/strangers around).

But the main point I wanted to reach, the law said nothing about outside the premises, there are droves of smokers 1 foot from the door to every restraunt and bar even now (3+ years later). Eventually smokers have gotten pretty used to the law, everyone I know goes outside without griping (even when it's 10-20F outside (that's -10 to -5C maybe?)) and I've never known one to not go outside because it was too cold, must be a hard habbit to kick.

god. what a moron. cant believe i didnt see this before.

as for this:
"Which wouldnt be permitted in UK since it counts rightly as an enclosed public space. "

well, as bluedave says, thats just completely wrong. much like the rest of your drivel.

how fucking dare you not allow smokers or think that smokers should be entitled to somewhere to smoke when out at bars etc.not even allowed on cafe terraces?!?!?!?!?! what sort of lacking in compromise messed up little place are you from.

I am wondering what Munich bar or restaurant that I can go and stand outside and smoke this evening.

Thankfully, most of them!

Why bother. The fine is 5 euros and given the cheapness of cigarettes there, even being caught would be the same cost as a packet of cigs in britain.

i still have the odd one inside in public places in britain. fuck going outside. thats a mugs game

Very few in 80469 Munich which has amongst if not THE highest densities of licensed premises in Munich.
I see Die Bank in the Müllerstrasse is still non smoking, probably explains ther desperate posters in the window advertising their rock bottom priced meals to try and make up for lost trade.

That's true - when I was in Tokyo I was more than surprised to stumble across the only palce where smokers could smoke - inside a place with huge glass windows (I forget the name of the place). Smoking wasn't allowed on the streets! It was nice not to have cigarette butts all over the pavement though.

'Smoking' is unhealthy, but its upto the person who wants to smoke or not. On the other side, smokers should also consider other people who are around them and behave accordingly. I wouldnt like to smoke in a restaurant with some company (who dont smoke) or any other place where there are people around me (I mean close to me). Smokers should understand that even if they smoke, they dont really like passive smokin'.

Anyways, there's been enough speculation about smoking and smokers. Here's a pic dedicated to smokers (Ich auch): (Someone created a memorial for smokers)

We went into our lokal last night and this was posted on the door

Toleranz zwischen den Menschen

Liebe Gäste

Wir möchten Sie hiermit informieren, dass ab 20:00 Uhr bei uns geraucht werden darf. Es erhält jeder Gast ob Raucher oder Nichtraucher. Einen kostenlosen Mitgliederausweis von uns.

I have used translator to get the gist of this:

Tolerance between humans Loves guests We would like to inform you hereby that starting from 20:00 o'clock with us may be smoked. It receives to each guest whether smokers or nonsmokers. A free member document of identification of us.

So does that mean one is allowed to smoke?

Yes.

After 8pm

A few days ago, I read in the Abendzeitung that the Bayrischer Landstag is looking to limit opening hours once again. They're looking at a 2am close. One of the reasons cited was to curb the increase in noise complaints from smokers standing outside.

Oh yeah, everyone's a winner with the smoking ban...

Sorry guys...I knew what it meant but I was suprised that they could get around the law so simply...its a normal gastehaus, not private as far as I know.
It semed to suggest that after 8:00 everyone was a member of a private club?

The Landtag say a lot of things that never happen. The smoking ban is working just fine, all it needs is some tweaking to get all these ridiculous smoking clubs stopped and the Wiesn smoke free and it will be perfect.

And the noise complaints? It's only gonna get worse in summer. I can't find the article online, but they were talking of a 20% increase in noise complaints since the introduction of the law - and it's still cold outside.

I can only imagine how "fine" it's all going to work once people also want to hang around outside because it's warm.

We'll all be in the beer gardens, same as before the ban.

I see, and all bars in residential areas will close for the summer...

And everyone in the beergardens will go home to bed at 11pm, when the beergardens close

I am quite happy with the law so far. Granted I don't live in a big city, but around here the noise hasn't been an issue. Furthermore, some bars have decided to become smoking clubs and some haven't. Now everyone has a choice where to go when they want a drink. The big thing is that restaurants are now non-smoking, this is where I think the ban is most important.

Maybe, or the smokers will learn to be more considerate. That's a big maybe though, seeing as how smokers often seem to be the most inconsiderate people around. Bars that can't cope with the ban will maybe close, tough, all businesses have to cope with changes, those that can, survive, those that can't, die. The smoking ban is the best thing that has happened here for a long time.

I actually think the ban is working quite well, even at the English comedy club on Monday I don't think I saw a single person light up inside, and the place was as full as it was normally before the ban. The place was bloody hot though, the woman comedian nearly fell over on stage.

May i just point out that both of the above statements are your opinion only and neither definitive nor measurable.