Changing your declaration of religion

I moved this month to Germany (Frankfurt) to start a new job and like a good foreigner wishing to avoid paying church tax I declared no religion.

I'm planning on getting married this year. I'd like to do this in my parish church back in Britain but the priest there says I need a letter from the Bishop here in Frankfurt.

Here's the problem: since I didn't declare a religion I don't think the bishop will be too keen to give me this letter.

I heard it's difficult to change to no religion after declaring yourself a certain religion but is it possible to change to declare a religion after declaring you don't belong to one?

You declared non-religion in Germany to avoid taxes, that shouldn't influence your religious status at home in the least. Why does your local priest want a German religious declaration? But: I don't think that there is a problem changing your heathen state to an officially recognized religion. AFAIK you have to pay on leaving the church but not on entering it.

Is the pope Catholic? Of course they'll let you declare that you're religious again -> it means more money for them.
It's also very easy to change and declare yourself non-religious. You just go down to the Rathaus Finance/Tax Dept and fill out the form and hand over the small fee (something like €30). Done.
Also beats me why the hell a Brit vicar wnts a letter from a German Bishop. What the hell should the Bishop say and in what language and what the hell has it to do with Frankfurt?

Edit: Strike that last question. I'm betting you're Catholic and the vicar in UK is Catholic... Italian religious mafia at work I suspect...

I'd find me another priest to do the ceremony, seriously! It should make absolutely no difference to the priest in the UK what anybody here in Germany has to say. And you don't need "permission" (or some letter) from the Bishop here in Germany in order to get married in the UK. What a bunch of stuff and nonsense! hrmmph...bah... go get a second Catholic opinion... or find yourself a pretty non-denominational chapel ...

How would the German bishop know you have declared no religion? Maybe you could just get around having to show any papers that show you have declared no religion in Germany... Just show your certificate from back home (if there is such a thing) that proves you're Catholic. Or maybe there is a way to declare your religion as Catholic and then change it back to nothing after you've done all the paperwork for your wedding?!

You guessed right I'm Catholic.

To keep everyone happy back home I kind of have to get married in my parish church. And if the priest says he needs a letter from the bishop he has to have one.

I was just wondering how the system for this church tax works and if the church has access to these declarations. Otherwise I'll have to go back to the burgeramt to see if they'll change me back.

http://www.ibka.org/infos/FAQKA.html

Info about Kirchenaustritt. Personally, I wouldn't change to pay any church a penny, but then I think they are all nothing but child molesting freaks. Go talk to your local bishop and ask him for a letter. IF he says no because you don't pay church tax, offer him cash in hand or a small boy and bob's your uncle

I'm Catholic, too! And I still say you should shop around for another Catholic opinion. Why not have a little chat with your UK Bishop, and add a little cash envelope to the negotiations like triumph bob said.

I find the whole idea of a government collecting a Church tax and taking a cut for administrative fees highly repugnant. Had a short discussion about it with my in-laws, and in the end they accepted the fact that I will give money where and when I like, directly to the parish or church of my choice, without a penny going to the government.

I don't know how it works in large cities, but in my in-laws' village it isn't unusual for the local Priest or Minister to show up at somebody's house and try to convince them to stay or return when they try to leave. So there must be a way for the Church to know who is on the official membership rolls. Funnily enough, I'm on good terms with the local Evangelical Minister in my in-law's village, and occasionally go to his church for Services with my mother-in-law.

I suppose in the end, if you absolutely must have this letter, then go to a German Priest and see if you can get it without involving the government at all. If asked, explain that you just moved and play dumb about the whole thing of Church tax.

Get back to him and find out exactly what he needs in the letter. Years ago some friends of mine were getting married in England while living over here. The church in England needed a letter confirming that neither were married under German law but that declaration had to come from the civil authorities, not the church. If he's looking for that sort of declaration a letter from the bishop is of limited use as you could have married in a civil ceremony.

Sounds like you might have some fun with the paperwork... if it is your local parish priest, then you just have to get the paperwork he wants to keep him happy. Technically, he could go so far as wanting a letter from every parish priest you have lived in since moving away from your parish.

If you decide to go with another priest in another church, you still need to go to your local parish priest for your baptism certificate and possible a "freedom to marry" certificate from the church. This is different from the legal "freedom to marry" paperwork from the government.

Certainly in Ireland, your original parish is where the records are kept of your baptism and confirmation etc. They are the only parish able to provide the necessary religious paperwork to keep other Catholic priests happy. But if your original parish is kicking up a fuss and wanting paperwork from where you live abroad, there's little chance of avoiding it and marrying in that church.

Good luck!

This is personal, but another thing to consider is possible future children. If you are staying in Germany, do you want to raise them as Catholics? Do you want to baptise them some day? If yes, then you're going to have to stay registered as a Catholic in Germany. If its a definite no, then de-registering your religion shouldn't be a problem in the long run.

We had a similar problem - me Catholic, fiancé raised Catholic but definitely atheist. 2 different nationalities living in a 3rd country. Bloody nightmare for all the paperwork, and long heavy discussions between ourselves on how we want to get married without being hypocritical or disrespecting each other. Sorted it all out, talked very honestly to the priest in Belgium who was absolutely fantastic. He respected and understands our views, and is supporting us all the way as well as not fussing too much about paperwork. If we approached the priest in Ireland it would have been a very different reaction! The families are still not happy, but we've given up trying to please everyone and are doing what feels right to us.

By the way, the local church in Germany know if you are officially registered as a Catholic in Germany or not. This is a highly efficient system, you can't just avoid it and pretend. I've heard of German churches going to the extent of writing to the home parishes of French colleagues in France, to officially remove them from the French parish as well once they leave the church in Germany!

Get another church in the UK where the priest isn't such a prick

Vegas Baby!

To get married in a catholic church (in Ireland anyway) you need to get a letter from the priest/bishop of your existing parish to prove that you are not already married, so as you want to get married in your family parish the correct answer to the priests question 'where do you live' is your family's address in that parish. But it is probably too late for that.

A friend of mine recently got married in Ireland (they are both catholic) and also had the same problem. The groom knew the score and gave his family address, the bride gave her real address and also mentioned that she had lived in a few different places previously being friendly and all that, the priest (who was a bit of a Father Trendy and not a old pain in the arse) said she had to get letters from each parish to prove she wasn't already married, thems the rules apparently

If the letter is needed to prove you are not married as opposed to prove the fact that you actually go to church then I would get some confirmation from the Standesamt and get this translated and give them that. If you have not lived here very long you can play it in a way that you are not actively going to church because you do not speak any German. Just a thought...

I had the same situation. We did the civil marriage here and the church bit in the UK. I went to the local priest in Munich and told him I was getting married in the UK. I never went to his mass and also didn't pay Church tax and that didn't seem to bother him. He sent a fax to the guy in the UK (in Latin!!) saying that as far as he was concerned I was free to marry... basta...

Not enough as church and state are separate here (although it often appears one is a puppet of the other!!). The Standesamt can only give confirmation from a legal/civil perspective whilst the church wants to try and find out if you ever had a church wedding...

exactly! Which I was trying to say earlier, albeit in a roundabout way. Forget the legal paperwork, this is something completely different. The Catholic church has another round of paperwork they require from their equivalent churches abroad. A Standesamt or legal document isn't what the church is looking for.

LOL! Faxes in Latin..letters from the Bishop..church reps turning up on your village doorstep...cash in hand plus a small boy and bob`s yer uncle...

What if you`re a Buddhist, or dare I ask

My girlfriend wants us to get married in church. I pay church tax yet am not confirmed in the UK.

I realy do not see a problem as I am CofE which is not the same as any denomination over in Germany.

However this being Germany I think this could be tricky...

So why are you paying German church tax?

I thought CofE was Anglican (Protestant) which is basically Evangelisch who also require church tax to be paid?

My girlfriend thought the question, on a tax form, was just a question...

I am hoping that the fact that I have been paying will remve any problems regarding us getting married in a german church.

If not, anyone know how to go about getting the money back?

Anglican is grouped in with prodestant but the reformation of the Church in the UK had nothing to do with Luther in Germany.

Its smething I am going to look into over the next few months.

Forget that

You have to go to Standesamt (?), sign some form and then there is a period of months before they actually stop deducting.

Nope! If you want to get really technical about it, we're something like "frei evangelisch", but definitely not part of the Evangelische Kirche Deutschlands (EKD). You should NOT be paying church tax in Germany if you are an Anglican. In fact, there are CoE and US Episcopalian-affiliated parishes in Germany who could really use the money if you really like giving over several hundred Euro a year to some church. Munich has the Church of the Ascension (US Episcopal), which also has affiliated mission congregations in Augsburg and Nuremberg.

Personally, since I'm an evil defense contractor, I attend Episcopal/Lutheran chapel services on an Army post, but if I ever went "on the economy," I'd attend the once-monthly service in Nuremberg - and offer to help them out with their website.

Church of the Ascension, Munich: http://www.ascension-munich.de/
Church of England, Diocese of Europe: http://www.europe.anglican.org/
Convocation of American Churches in Europe (US Episcopalians): http://www.tec-europe.org/

If you really want to be a member of the German Lutheran Church, I'm sure there would be some integration and other social benefits. My German boyfriend remains a taxpaying member because he appreciates the social services they provide, even though I think he goes twice a year, tops.