Jewish community complaint alters Fasching parades

your logic is on a par with eurovol's, conquistador.

OG, I disagree most wholeheartedly. Are you saying that MT doesn't dislike Jews in Israel?

no, I am saying that simply because MT doesn't like one particular Jew doesn't make him anti-Semitic. Also just because he doesn't agree with the politics of the current Israeli government doesn't make him anti-Semitic. He doesn't agree with the politics of George W Bush either but you aren't accusing him of being anti-American.

Well said OG.

I will admit I am anti the current Israel administration and really against the state of Israel completely, just as I am againt the Palistinian aggression and the indoctronation of fundamental Islam. That border demonstrates the fundamental error in many humans need for a God and Religion. One will make me anti-Semitic in some eyes, the other would get me killed in some areas of the world. I have Jewish friends who I like and respect, I have many Muslim friends who I feel the same about. People are one thing, organisations are another.

Governments aren't an abstract entity- they are composed of people and the man-made creations of people. MT's dislike of Israel isn't a dislike of the architecture of Israeli government buildings, it is a dislike of Jewish people and, by extension, the Jewish people in Israel who support the government. Keep in mind MT described Israel as a "racist state" leaving no doubt that his problem is with Jews there. BTW, can you find me any Muslim state whose population is approximately 20% Jewish? There are none, and Arabs states expelled almost all of their Jewish citizens. Was that racist?

As for anti-Americanism, MT may well be smitten with that disease, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that pending additional evidence.

You do not seem to be against the very existence of any of the other 244 countries (if you do, please do not forget to list them before answering the coming question)
Could you provide us with the reasons behind that way of thinking?

The vatican.

Wow, the world just got an extra 50 countries. I'm against them (when I find out who they are), for not telling me they existed. Bastards (mind you, it's a whole new load of foreigners to despise)

Great, now the second part of the answer remains

You should check with Wikipedia more often, as I did

C'mon, Sinderbox, a bunch of guys running around in dresses being served by virgins and guarded by tall young men in pouffy looking uniforms, and you want a reason?

Too bad the eunuchs are not there anymore, the picture would have been quite complete

ah but only 193 are internationally recognised.

Yes, but I wanted to give him the chance to be against any of them.
Nor wanted to start another thread about the actual number. But I knew with certainty I could not avoid it regardless the number I would choose to post. Toytowners will never miss a chance to proof you wrong

I know rather a few Jews who would agree with MT's opinion on that point , and even claim that to be sited where it is it could hardly be any other way. Your inference is quite a leap in logic.

Yes we do , PROTEST THE PROTESTERS!

I propose that we should have a "wake-up" protest at Marienplatz.

Ahhh Parnell, and I know a few Jews that pray daily for the destruction of Israel. So?
MT has a long track record of Jewish bias, that is a simple TT fact.

If its Holocaust day, then where are the Gypsy, Homosexuals, Jehovahs Witnesses, Slavs etc? Sure they should be involved, rather than just Jews like it seems it is. To me its just another attempt from the Jews, to promote themselves and play the victim card again, rather than cover all the various Groups who suffered in the Holocaust. I have a Jewish Friend who lives in Ireland now and whos Grandmother was a Greek Jew and was forced to flee. I have said this to him last year, that sadly, alot of Holocaust Reminders tend to be just about how jews suffered etc, but little about other groups. He agreed.

I have a problem with certain Jews going on about the Past and how people should not forget etc. When are the Jewish people going to condemn in Public what certain Jews are doing to Palestinians in the Gaza area for example? Certainly the Jews, amongst others suffered alot of hardship etc, but the way a number of Jews treat people of other backgrounds in Israel is not any better. For me its so two faced. There is good , bad and ugly in all groups of people.

I agree with MT about this Knobloch Woman. She is a Media whore who thinks she is something special and should be at all top events. Obviously she is head of her organization and will be in the media to some extent. But for me she likes to think she is extra special and should be at all events. And sorry but just because its A Day to Remember those that died in the holocaust does not mean people, if they so wish, can have a parade celebrating or partying over something different. For this woman to tell people what they should and should not do, is a step too far.

Why are certain Jews so stuck in the past? Yes, what happened was terrible and yes it should be remembered, but the whole world should not just change its plans, because of Holocaust day or whatever. Surely it would be better to have people from the various groups that suffered in the Holocaust present as well? As far as I know that is not the case. Its more a case of pull out the Jewish Sympathy card rather than really remember all who have died in the Holocaust.

Tosh! But carry on. It's people like yourself who can't see the difference between governments, national leaders, states and people and religion who perpetuate the circles of violence.

By extension of your slightly interesting logic if you hate Blair you're anti-christian?

@ Sinderbox
Yo man! Did you get my PM? I still owe you some money.

Anyhoo ... I don't think MT has a racist bone in his body ... lots of other ones , just not racist.

A state could be racist or act in a racist manner without the citzens themselves being racist , just as a state could go to war despite it being far from the democratic view of its' population. Another good example of the same is torture , a state could torture others without neccessarily having a majority of citzens in favour of that.

Gimme time, I need first to write the invoice. I am kind of lazy. I will not charge you interests


I do not think MT is antisemitic. However you do see a clear and marked bias when you sum up all his related posts.

The fact that you compare these two things show how little understanding of these two situations you have. Especially this "when are the Jewish people going to condemn", as if there aren't many Jews, many of them Israelis, that have issues with what's going on in Gaza and are not afraid to voice them, or as if "them Jewses" all speak with the same voice (because the Yids are all the same, aren't they?). But the fact is that we are at war with an unrecognized entity in the Gaza strip, there is no more Israeli presence in the Gaza strip for almost two years now (one of the many facts Israel boo-boys tend to forget). The fact is that they continue to make attacks from that area into undisputed sovereign territory, but this is obviously nothing to you, isn't? Or shall I start shooting rockets at your house, shouting Ausländer raus (itbakh al Yahood for your translation)? The war in the Gaza strip is not one our side chose to have, as the disengagement clearly shows. Which doesn't mean we should sit down, absorb random shellings of our towns and wait for someone to budge about it. No one ever did, and no one will ever do.


Fuck you, you have no idea of what's going on in Israel. Muslim and Christian Arabs are 20% of our population, and enjoy full civil rights, despite not having to fulfill all their civil duties like most of the country does. They have members of parliament, even ministers, as well as parties with agendas and the entire Arab population has a right to vote. There are Arab judges and Arab bosses at work (I had one). There are Muslim shrines in Tel Aviv-Yaffo and in Haifa. The Druze and Circassians share the same status, although they serve in the military and so you'll also find Druze and Circassian officers and even generals.

So don't even try to compare what is being remembered at the German government sanctioned Holocaust (note - not Jew Holocaust) memorial day. Not any better my ass.


Fuck you again, and again. You have not an inkling of an idea. The memorial day is for all victims of the Holocaust, as has been said in the thread plenty times over, so why don't you go on and fucking read it. And these people are present at memorial services. That people insist on keeping this memory alive and not letting it fade away as it did in East Germany and East Europe for many of the people isn't being stuck in the past. It's remembering the past so that similar things don't happen in the future. Imagine if, for example, what would be the story in Uganda if the previous head clown of the UN circus would actually care about things like this. Why don't you try to confront your petty racist views about the contriving little Jewses with some facts?

Very decent of you man , just wouldnt want you to think I'm a person who does not meet his debts. Thx.


Yes he's a firm resident of the extreme left-wing. "loony left-wing" even.

Are you a supporter of terrorism against the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim citizens of Israel?

BTW, although there is discrimination in Israel (even amongst Jews) and that is certainly reprehensible, it is disgraceful that you fail to understand that it obviously does not approach the numerous pogroms directed at European Jews over the centuries, particularly The Holocaust. You also pointedly fail to condemn the awful terrorism committed against Jews by Palestinians.

IMHO, all groups who suffered are welcome at any remembrance, and I highly doubt Jews would not want them to participate. Do not forget, however, that Jews where the Nazis' primary target.

@parnell, MT's stated personal boycott of Israel, along with his other comments, is further indication of his dislike of Jews. Remember, he called Israel "racist" meaning he has a problem with Jews there.

Heh?
I think there are issues with institutional racism in the German state.
Does that mean I'm "anti-German" ?

Genie-calm down its a light-hearted Forum where people do not really take what others put too seriously. You seem to love going around calling everybody a "Racist" if they say anything against Jews or Israel. I think you are Paranoid!

Conq-I do not support any terrorism, no matter who it be-Jews, Muslims, catholics, protestants etc. To go around Shooting or Killing often innocent people is not on. I do not really agree on War, unless there really must be as often again the innocent people are made to suffer more than those who call and support war. look how many Millions of innocent people have been killed by terrorism and war in the past decade.

However my point is that some Jews often seem to play the Sympathy Card too much, which fair enough they have suffered, but then so have many types of people and little is heard of it. I also was pointing out that Jews, as a Group, as well as the Nation of Israel-where the majority are Jewish, is not without blood on its hands. Its also my opinion that you rarely here anything other than Jews being involved with things about remembering the Holocaust-which I dont agree with. To remember it is OK, but you hear very little from other groups that suffered asking for such things as Repayments, for days to remember what happened and also asking for support etc. What happened, happened and nothing is going to change that. However there has to be a point where we say "OK remember it and not forget, but lets move on". For me certain Jewish people will not do that in regards to the Holocaust.

@ thunderdome: That's because they don't have a government behind them (and generous donations from abroad behind it, but that's another story). The Roma, the gays, the Jehova Witnesses, all of them are not represented in the UN, with consulates in other countries, by strong political organizations.
And before anyone jumps down my throat: Yes, the Jews were targeted with special venom and violence. Yes, I have had massive problems growing up in Germany with a Hebrew name before it became popular. No, I am not Jewish but that shouldn't matter a iota remembering atrocities and rejoicing that the people who committed them did - finally - lose their political power. And that Germany is a place where you can have monuments to victims and traditional events side by side.

Oh, don't worry, I only use that word towards people who've earned it by generalizing and addressing entire peoples with derogative terms. You're new to this forum so please don't lecture me what it's about. I've been through very long debates about the policies of my country's government (with which I have issues of my own, but understanding them requires a mild amount of knowledge, so probably lost on you) with people who are very much against them. Nevertheless, very few have earned this remark from me, despite hard to stomach claims against Israel. Consider yourself unique.


Love you. Who the love told you not to move on? What the love do you think these memorials are about, except remembering and not forgetting? How else would you suggest to remember and not to forget, on a public level?

He is not. You should do a little research in this very forum, check what Genie said in the past and you will see how wrong you are.


You are new here, or are in disguise. Your point, if you had one, was buried in a very uneducated opinion. You do not only lack lots of facts, but you did not even care reading this very thread from the beginning. Many of your statements are just inconsistent with what has been said here just posts ago. That's trollinsh, and I am very surprised anyone wasted his or her time answering you.

Oh by the way, there's an ANL gig and demo today in town (at the Feldherrenhalle). Starts at 5. If you're actually bothered.

Would you care to give an example of that from here?
Because I can't think of any.


There is a memorial in Munich. It is respected. That has never been a matter of debate.
Just this year you have a date clash due to a fixed date (anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz by the Red Army) and a moveable date (Easter and thus Fasching).

Date clashes of events and peoples calendars are usually sorted out amicably.
As this case originally was.

Yeah Triumph Bob, think the Schirmherrschaft of that gig is Lord Mayor Ude, you know, the one who is SO "anti-Semitic".

Yes. Knobhead's going to be there as well. Maybe you could pelt her with rotten tomatoes? I've got a broken fridge full if you're interested

I think that MT is gentleman enough to let her speak without booing or throwing things at her. But he will not be mealy-mouthed in a personal conversation, should the occasion arise.

Thus, such comments are not very easily understandable:

I'm not feeling too good and if I was up to going out I would have gone to a public meeting about the council elections where I know there's going to be debate about some of the current issues around racism and xenophobia.

Fuck me, you got a major sense of humour failure. What are you, German?

That comment came as a result of certain Jewish Community leaders stirring up an issue that had ALREADY been settled.

These are two obvious generalizations. The other ones, marked with the bleach agent "some Jews" or "certain Jews" are simply disguised racism, when read in the context of this person's whole post. People can easily see though this lip service.


But the ensuing debate, MT, revealed the undercurrent feelings that some people on this forum seem to have. You might think that a memorial is good to have and that date clashes can be worked out, but others think it's a superfluous case of Jews playing the victims card, and that date clashes need not be worked out, since the memorial itself is to be removed.

Sorry I am not going to look at every post just to see what everybody said and if missed something so be it-my mistake Sorry. So I made a couple of mistakes- so what? People make a mistake on this forum or have a misunderstanding and you get abused it seems. What a great Forum! And why would I want to waste my time checking what some person put in other threads? I just see that this Genie person has accused another person of being a "Racist" and "Anti-Semitic". The way this person goes ranting around, then you must question whether this person is normal or not.

And moving on, does not mean forgetting about something. Holocaust day should be remembered and I have no problem with that.But to keep chasing people down who are 90 years old and ready to die and who are unfit for a court Room, is a waste of time and money. To keep asking for payments from Germany and Germans after 60 years or so, is not a sign of moving on at all.

I looked up Holocaust on Wikipedia-the knowledge of all things and it stated the following a bit down the page

The use of the word-Holocaust-in this wider sense is objected to by many Jewish organizations, particularly those established to commemorate the Jewish Holocaust. Jewish organizations say that the word in its current sense was originally coined to describe the extermination of the Jews, and that the Jewish Holocaust was a crime on such a scale, and of such specificity, as the culmination of the long history of European antisemitism, that it should not be subsumed into a general category with the other crimes of the Nazis.

Now sorry but this is what annoys me. The Holocaust had seen millions of others like Slavs, Political prisoners, Gays etc killed, but certain Jews and jewish Organizations dont want them to be included. I find that a disgrace. I dont know heaps about the Holocaust or WW2, but I know enough to know that many various groups of people was tortured and killed by the Nazi´s, not just Jews. And as such a Holocaust day should represent them as well. Yes 6 Million or so Jews was murdered and they were often the main target by the Nazi´s-but the other millions should not just be forgotten about.

You really are a case! I have Jewish or part Jewish friends. For example Justin who lives in Ireland currently and I mentioned earlier. And generally speaking in a group of people in large numbers, you get good, bad and ugly-this is the same in a Group of Jews as it would be to a group ogf catholics, germans, Iranians, Muslims, chinese or whatever. Its you that has the problem nobody else!.

I say some or certain Jews because that is the case. I have not said all Jews, as not all Jews think like this. Maybe if you sorted your head, you could then see everybody is not Anti-Semitic as you think they are.

Please refresh our memory then - how many millions of gay people were sent to death camps? How many millions of Slavs were sent to death camps? You probably wouldn't know. It's not that you don't know heaps, the problem lies in that you don't know squiltsch. So please stop making remarks to solidify this impression of yourself.

The only other group of people that were concentratedly sent to death camps were the Roma, about 100,000 of them. Have you ever voiced a complaint about their use of the word Porajmos?

Certainly! Do not waste your time.
But allow us to take your baseless an uneducated accusations with a big big laugh.

Well whaddaya know. Some of your best friends are Jewish. Fits fantastic, this lid to your pot.

You obviously know very little of me, if you claim I think everyones anti-Semitic. On the other hand, that's not a big surprise, seeing the extent of your knowledge in other things you seem to enjoy talking about. The fact is, though, that I can count on the fingers of my right hand the amount of people on this forum I've called racist, and still come short. As I said, you can regard yourself as unique.

11 million dead, 6 million Jewish. I'd say that, yeah, you got the majority, but that's a fucking big remainder unless my maths is seriously wrong.

In terms of sheer numbers, European Jews were the largest group who perished in The Holocaust.
But surely there shouldn't be a hierachy of oppression?

Never said it isn't, I just wanted to point out how ignorant this fool is. Please read my previous posts on this thread as to where I think this remainder should be relative to this Holocaust memorial.

Does it matter if Millions or a hundred thousand Gypsy´s were murdered in the Holocaust? They still are sadly part of the Holocaust-whether you or anybody else likes it or not. And if you add all the Gypsy´s, Slavs, Political Prisoners, Gays, JW´s, Disabled etc that were murdered in the Holocaust it adds to Millions-the History books, tell us so. The exact number, nobody will ever know.

And Justin is a friend and we have a good friendship. He is not my best friend-but still I value his friendship no matter what religion or nationality he is. Just because somebody is a Jew, Muslim or whatever does not mean I either like or dislike the person.

Now off you go and calm down.

thunderdome... doesn't this have something to do Thor, Walhalla 'n stuff... ?

Just go there 'n stay there...

Maybe you are in fact anti-German, but I don't recall ever seeing you call Germany a "racist, imperialist state", which you did call Israel:

There are no homosexuals in Iran