Living in The Hague

We are a young family looking for and clues/or/answers about the Hague. Is it as hard to get a cripper as it is in Munich. Is the cost of living higher in the Hague. Main differences btw the Dutch and Germans, other than height, language and location. Cheers

As far as I know, it would be much better than here as almost all Dutch folks speak English and also, its more cosmo than Germany. And I dont think its more expensive than Munich.

The things that you would miss are Munich's location and different culture, etc stuff. I think there are many other factors that can be figured out based on the job, how much he/she can afford, and what one really wants.

Good: friendly people with a very good sense of humor, the sea, Schiphol for travel.
Bad: On a par with Germany when it comes to the worthlessness of the food, more crime, don't really know The Hague specifically, but housing overall is also very expensive.

Worthless food? I have never eaten in so many good restaurants in my life as when I was in the hague for a week. Amazing indonesian food for example. Even the smallest, backstreet restaurant served great food. Immensly better than Munich on that account.
Forgot about Febo and that crap

Pretty high cost of living though, especially in the Hague. Quite comparable to Munich, slightly more expensive. They sure as hell don't like germans there though

They've got great ethnic cuisine, but you'll get bored of that in the long-run.

FC Den Haag is like the Millwall of Dutch football, for what it's worth. You can also go watch Stefan "Strap-On" Postma play as it's his club.

The Dutch are obsessed with the Germans though, gets a little stale after a while too. They're like a Yorkshire Terrier that yaps constantly next to a big Doberman that couldn't care less...

They also have a large shop of imported British food iirc.

What's a cripper?

Have only visited Den Haag a few times. I like it a lot, very beautiful. It has a beach too, which is good if you hate the landlocked feeling of Munich.

From what I've heard things like going out to dinner tends to me more expensive in Holland (not just Den Haag), but I can't imagine the cost of living would be that much more expensive than in Munich...i.e. there is a noticeable difference in the grocery store (Holland being cheaper). Sparty is your guy to ask on that.

I have heard finding a flat can be a massive pain in the ass.

re Dutch people- really really great. Very friendly. Very relaxed. Very open- in terms of what they talk about, their lifestyles, beliefs, what you know about them. Don't count on a quiet train ride- the cloggies are incredibly loud in forms of public transport, especially trains. There is also somewhat of a competition to see who is carrying the biggest and most beautiful flowers or plant on said forms of public transport. Oh, and most of them are scary drivers.

You need to buy three things: a used bike (plus a child seat if you have a kid, and one for the front and back if you have 2), a strong lock, and most importantly, you must buy the book The Undutchables.

I could keep writing stuff about the Dutch here on TT, but it would be much better for you to just read the book. It will help you understand the cloggies

Krippe maybe? Mind you, using the imagination is much more fun - you could come up with some interesting interpretations!

Now, what's cloggies?

Clog-wearing ppl i.e. the Dutch, I presume.
Krippe - Kindergarten or creche? Never remember which, or if they're the same.

Thanks guys, keep them coming. Cripper/krippe is a kindergarten for under three years old.

UA is right- "cloggie" is what us English speakers call the Dutch...referring to the wooden shoes made famous by the Dutch as worn a long long time ago. Equally popular for the tourists are windmills and tulips.

Get ready for these dutch foods: kaas (or cheese- Gouda is the speciality), bitterballen (spelled wrong...aka bitterballs- get em at restaurants and pubs, go great with beer!, deep fried "meat" balls), pommes- infamous french fries- the dutch get them served with mayo or special sauce which is mayo and curry ketchup I think

P.S. Have you ordered the book from Amazon yet??

Being Dutch, and being from The Hague, I felt I had to respond.

We have been living as an expat here in Munich for three years now, and are heading back to The Hague very, very soon.

So, where should I start? Perhaps with the housing. Prices are comparable to those in Munich. I don't think it will be very hard to find a place to live: when we went to Munich, we offered our place for rent, and finally found a nice expat family that wanted to rent it after 5 months. There are a lot of places on offer. It seems that the market has not changed: very hard hard to rent your house, so those looking for a place have a lot to choose from.

The Hague is a place attracting lots of people from all around the world. There is hardly a national cuisine you will not find there, although I do have to say that Indonesian (Indonesia being a former Dutch colony) restaurants are by far the best there are! Restaurants are a bit more expensive than here in Munich, but the overall cost of living is a little less expensive. I received a 8% raise in salary when I got to Munich, just based on the cost index of living in Munich compared to The Netherlands alone.

There is more crime in The Hague than there is in Munich. I think it is fair to say, that there is hardly a place in the world where you feel as safe as here in Munich, but The Hague is OK. Whereas I don't know of a area where I wouldn't go for a walk at night here, there might be a couple of areas in The Hague where you don't want to be at night- just as in every other city I know.

A great benefit The Hague has to offer is that the beach is close by. There is great architecture, nice museums, great cinemas, theatre, casinos and other nightlife.

I wouldn't worry too much about how the Dutch perceive the Germans. For all I know, this rivalry only exists during international football championships. Ignore the rest. I'd say that speaking German is easier to learn than Dutch, but you'd be surprised how far you'd get with speaking English. The Dutch are liberals, and are used to foreigners, although we have some politicians who tend to prove otherwise. I'd say that the region of The Hague welcomes expats as it gives the economy a boost.

My opinion is that there will hardly be a place nicer to live in than Munich, but The Netherlands in general, and The Hague in specific has its benefits as well. As it is a small country, everything is close by, especially nice cities like Delft, Leiden, Rotterdam, Amsterdam & Utrecht.

What you should also know is that the region The Hague is crowded with Brits! Lots of people working for Shell etc. This means that you will find English shops, and also very important, the British School is in this area, meaning that you will find friends for yourself or your kid fast!

I do know that it is quite hard to find a Kindergarten, as most Dutch will continue to work after having children, but I am convinced that your employer or your urgent situation will help.

Good luck with your decision.

Thats right, but for saffers who know Afrikaans, it aint that diffcult coz Dutch language is the basis for Afrikaans.

me goed, en jy? ...Totsiens.

met mij ook alles goed. Tot ziens & fijn weekend!

Vielen Dank. Prosit Neujahr und Viel Spaß...Chow Chow.

I'm a native English speaker and learned both Dutch and German. Although I started with German in school, I found Dutch far easier to learn. It is closer to English, has much simpler grammar and the sentence construction is instinctively more logical for an English-speaker. The only problem in learning the language is that Dutch people are so good at English you might find it hard to get opportunities to practise until you reach a certain level.

Even then I know Flemish-speaking Belgians who have been answered in English when they spoke fluent Dutch in the Netherlands - they weren't impressed!

EDIT: I think Afrikaans sounds completely weird, but cool like the person is singing!

I worked in the Hague, lived in Leiden and have family in that area. I really like Holland. First of all, the salaries are generally lower, the tax rate is a little lower and the foodstuffs are more expensive although the supermarkets are better than here. Shopping hours are more restrictive than here and everything´s closed on Sundays. The petrol at about 1,54 eur a litre is way more expensive than in Germany, but the public transport is dirt cheap compared to here although not as efficient as the German. The people themselves are very friendly, but they can tend to be a bit arrogant and crime is a problem in certain areas of Rotterdam although the country itself is extremely safe i.e. you often see young girls riding their bikes late at night.

Working conditions are generally better than here and Dutch companies tend to be less hierarchical, more Anglo-Saxon in character. They are pretty relaxed and working overtime is frowned upon. Accommodation is extremely difficult to find in the entire Randstad area, the Hague being dead centre in it. Most expats there live in Wassenaar - bloody expensive - Voorschoten or Scheveningen which is on the beach. Obviously, you can live wherever you want and Leiden and Delft are also good alternatives.

Please do me a favour and don´t even think about reading "Undutchables". Perhaps after living there 2 years or so or when you´ve left. You´ll then be able to see how much of it is bullshit. Otherwise, it´s really difficult learning to speak Dutch as everyone wants to speak English so you have to push your agenda. Buy yourself a cheap, shit bike because they get stolen. Last, but not least, do not ever compare the Dutch to the Germans. Oh, and there´s no such thing as Dutch food unless you call "stamppot", "olieballen", "patat met" or "kroketten" food and the beer is like water.

Oh, and the Hague is very centrally situated;10min or so by train to Rotterdam, 30min to Amsterdam and 10min approx. to Leiden and not far from Utrecht. in fact, nothing is far in that neck of the woods. All the international schools are there too as Shell is based there; Rijswijk to be exact. All in all, a good place to live although where Holland is perhaps better with the friendliness and openness of the people, I find Munich has more to offer nature and outdoors wise. It´s what you make of it though.

Very true, it has a much simpler grammar. I was thinking more about the pronunciation of Dutch that might cause some problems. But, If you're living in Den HaaGGGG and close to Scheveningen (pronounced SGGGGeveningen), I suppose you'll be a fast learner!

Actually, you´d be surprised. They understand practically everything, but the Dutch don´t. What´s worse is that the language is just too similar, but at the same time too different for the Afrikaners. The Afrikaans people I worked with all gave up learning Dutch and just spoke English.

I find Dutch and German extremely similar. Germans understand about 60% of it when it´s spoken slowly. It´s far closer to German than it is to English, but it is closer to English. Getting the "het" and "de" similar to "das" and "der" is also not that easy and the past tense is also the same as in German.

Don't rip the Undutchables! There are definitely a lot of thinks to laugh at, and yes, even the new edition has some bullshit in it...but clarifying the stereotypes is the point I think. And a lot of what is in the book is very true. At least Jesh would learn things like only take one cookie from the cookie tin when invited over to a Dutch home and the Dutch bathroom would be explained in detail (i.e. the Calendar with birthdays on it, strategically appointed toilet brush, cleanser, potporri, etc.).

Drink plenty, as you'll be using the back of your throat a lot! And sounding like you have a bad hacking cough...

I'd kill for a nice "patat met" and for "kroketten"! OK, Dutch cuisine is not much, but these two goodies alone deserve a prize!

Ok, I´ll admit I really like them including "stroopwafels" which I forgot. Not a big fan of "satesaus", but I know a lot who are.

Regarding the Flemish being answered in English, that´s news to me especially when it´s the Flemish who win the "taalcompetitie" or language competition every year.

And when you arrive in Holland and you get asked why you left Munich, tell them, the Dutch guys, you decided to bring their bicycles back!

Well it definitely happened to one person I know. Mind you, he's not very pro-Dutch in the first place so you can imagine his disgust! We all thought it was very funny, and won't let him forget it for a long time.

Ok, back to the Hague and advice ... one obvious benefit is that if you are half-British its much easier to get a ferry and pop over to visit.
I find the Hague and the area to be very heavily built up, with big traffic jams and lots of concrete buildings. I haven't lived there though, so reality may be different.

The horizontal rain and constant wind is also something foreigners I know living there talk about. Its hard over time if you are used to warmer or drier weather. Coming from Ireland, I felt very much at home there. The salty moist air was so similar to what I grew up with.

If you like water sports, its a good place to be. Some other friends in the countryside near the Hague have a house with a back garden directly onto a canal - they can keep a boat or kayak there. You definitely won't run out of canals, that's for sure.

Or you can call them "kaaskop", but it will piss them off unless you say it with a smile and they´re someone you know.


"Kaas komijn" is more exotic than gouda. If you want a decent-sized beer ask for a "vaasje" rather than a "fluitje" which is gone after the first sip. Meatballs are called "frikadellen" and the fries with curry is called "patat oorlog" or "fries war".


Haagsekakker:-)


I have to disagree with you here. Everyone buys in Holland so it is extremely difficult to find a place to rent. I have experienced this as have many friends and aquaintances of mine.


And all films are shown in the original language with Dutch subtitles as is the case on TV. You have a standard 30 or so channels including 2 BBC channels, 1 French, a couple of Belgian, CNN, quite a few Dutch of course. A lot of English channels in comparison to Germany by any means.


The school is exorbitantly expensive though. There is another private international school and a cheaper international school all in the Hague.

Although the Dutch are very friendly be aware of the fact that they are still European and as such it will still take a long time till you crack the invite for dinner. They are, however, very different to Germans in that they will engage in social activities with work colleagues. From my experience, they have a very relaxed attitude to family life and you are more likely to get to know your neighbours than you are in Germany. As far as admin is concerned, they are not far behind the Germans. You will have to report to the community centre when you arrive and you will have to register for the public health scheme. Their banking, I personally find more advanced than the Germans - I have had good experiences with ABN-Amro - and they generally seem to be quicker when it comes to technology and marketing than Germany i.e. they are more readily influenced by the UK and US. Bicycles are sacred so make sure you never touch one whilst driving and dogs are sacred too. Once you´ve been there long enough, they will then start mentioning to you what a pain in the arse all the Turks and Moroccans are. You will also see that traffic jams or "files" are a way of life there, but as I said earlier, you really don´t need a car there.

If you can read Dutch, you can have a look here to get some idea of availability and pricing of Rental (huur) houses in and around (15 Kms) Den Haag.

Allright, here I go... just like Mr.V., being Dutch I feel the need of responding as well


Scary drivers could be true, but most of all, there are a LOT of drivers out there. Traffic is a major issue, in 2007 traffic jams has been raised 25% in the "Randstad", the area with the major cities. It could easily take up to two hours to drive from Rotterdam to Amsterdam during rush hour, at least there is no way that you can go anywhere within this area without hitting traffic.


The bike should look as crappy as possible. This reduces the chances of being stolen majorly. Don't be surprised if your lock costs a lot more than the bike itself. And remember, when you lock your bike, always lock it to something and don't let it stay there by itself even though it's locked.


You spelled it completely right! God I miss those!


This is true... if you would have posted this about ten years ago! Sunday shopping in the Netherlands is becoming more and more popular. Ikea was one of the first ones to be opened on Sunday, and soon a lot of shops followed. I don't know about Den Haag, but the whole city center of Rotterdam is opened from noon to 6pm every single Sunday. This was a year ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if the shops open at 10am on Sundays nowadays.
Seriously, I can't imagine any place more restrictive than Germany in terms of Sunday shopping...


It is hard to compare. In terms of trains there's not such a thing as comfort like they have on the ICE here. But then again, an ICE in Holland would take you anywhere in the country in like...10 minutes The trains don't have that enourmous punctuality as here, but they run often and you can get to a lot of places in not much time. Trams and metro systems might not be as punctual as here, but they run often and even during the night, there are a lot of options. For example, I hardly used taxis to get home. In the Randstad, the part of Holland where the most is going on, trains, trams and certain metros run all night long.

Within cities, the use of the "Streifenkarte" is about mandatory, I think it's a great system because you don't have to worry about getting separate tickets in different cities. They're working on a personal prepaid card system thingie, but I don't know the details about it because I left at that time


I so disagree with that!! By reading your posts it looks like you have been living in a complete shelter over there. My (non-Dutch) girlfriend is almost halfway the book, and I read some parts of it as well. The book is excellently written and covers a lot of parts that I didn't even think about but is so much like me and my common life over there.

In general life in Holland is not bad at all. Of course I have no idea how it is as an expat, but there are a lot of advantages but also disadvantages. About Den Haag, I would say it would be the city I would want to live in if I'd ever go back to Holland. It's a nice city (with its bad parts, but that's what all cities have), centrally located with the beach at your doorstep.

Mate, I go back there regularly as my immediate family live there. I don´t go shopping in The Hague admittedly, but Leiden is completely closed on Sundays. Shops also close at 6 in the evenings. Once a week you have a "Koopavond" where they stay open later. As far as selection goes, Dutch supermarkets are way better than here selection-wise and I would tend to say that consumer goods are often cheaper than here.


I agree with most of this except the night part. Maybe in Amsterdam and Rotterdam this may be the case, but you can forget about taking a tram back to the Central Station in The Hague from about 12 onwards if you´re out in Scheveningen. You will then have to wait an hour for the train if you´re unlucky since it runs every hour. Still better than Germany where everything stops.


Well, when you´ve read the whole thing perhaps then you should comment. It is highly critical of the Dutch in a lot of places and I feel unfairly. Sure there are some things you should know like for instance that the Dutch are extremely direct and can come across as unfriendly because of that, but Undutchables goes beyond that to the point where you get the feeling that they think there´s something wrong with the Dutch much like some of the comments you get from people here on TT regarding Germany.


Agreed. I wouldn´t go to Rotterdam or Amsterdam. Leiden, The Hague and Delft would be my choices. Wassenaar if I had the money!

About shopping: at least once a month, shops are open on Sundays in Den Haag. In most larger cities, the supermarkets are open on sundays. That is what I miss in Munich.

Thanks guys, all your comments are much appreciated. I am thinking of getting the undutch... just so as to laugh I Hope!!!

If for any reason I had to leave Germany, I would got to Holland. I lived their for a year and my ex-wife is Dutch. I have always found the Dutch to be on the whole friendly and easy going and tolerant. Unfortunately this does mean that it''s somewhat scruffier than Germany and crime is more of a problem, but not a big one, you just have to be a bit more aware than here. I don't know Amsterdam/The Hague area very well, as I lived in Eindhoven, but I would say there are a great variety of restaurants there. Plus they have the worlds greatest chip shops-Frites Zaaks. They sell all manner of deep fried food, including chips/french fries. It's incredible unhealthy and therefore tastes great! Kroketten...mmmm..Lekker!

When you say crime, is that more when compared to Prague or any other parts of czechoslovakia? I had been to Amsterdam as well as Prague. By what I've seen, I consider Netherlands to be much more safer than Czechoslovakia. Innit?