Buried WWII bomb found on new tram 23 line

In that picture the sun is almost directly overhead. That doesn't happen here in January.

Exactly Jeeves.

As Sara said it is a


i.e sample image.

Anyway a Video report (in German) can be found here:
Merkur Online: Bombenfund legt Verkehr lahm
which explains the worried phone call I got last night.

I have no idea where Sara got that quote from. I thought she was just taking an educated guess.

You don't need no new-fangled eddykashun to realize that pic can't be authentic to the incident. Evening + January + Munich = no sunlight. But I, sheeplike, followed the link so kindly provided by Moonboot and read the complete article.
EDIT: Like a good magician explaining a trick. It's easy once you know how.

Madam I am sorry if my attempt to help people whom I considered to be somewhat on the confused side was indeed of no help whatsoever. On the other hand I am gratified to learn that people, whether without no education or not, were not only already in full possession of the facts but had also managed to draw their own inevitable and correct conclusions.

Ah well, one of the guys from the office sent the picture, maybe it was a joke. I'm out of town right now. Everyone was evacuated from the building so I figured they took the picture before they were let back in. Maybe they did, with a flash? Anyway, I'll ask.

Hey and you think those American's in 1944 flew their stealth bombers over from Kansas ? The Brits bombed Munich ... but not so much as the top 3 Pforzheim, Dresden and Würzburg ...
just to give you the full picture ...

"just to give you the full picture ..."

Operation Gomorrha

Hamburg, 28th July 1943

... The burnt-out area was almost entirely residential. Approximately 16,000 multistoreyed apartment buildings were destroyed. There were few survivors from the firestorm area and approximately 40,000 people died, most of them by carbon monoxide poisoning when all the air was drawn out of their basement shelters. In the period immediately following this raid, approximately 1,200,000 people - two thirds of Hamburg's population - fled the city in fear of further raids ...

How impressively efficient of the Allies miwild! By contrast all the death camps together only killed an average of 2,393 per day.

If you had bothered to read the thread properly, we've already established that the British did indeed bomb Munich. However judging by the tone of your post, I think you are implying that I was somehow criticising the American air force. I think you should remove that chip from your shoulder. The only reason I thought that the British didn't bomb Munich was that I didn't think that their bombers could fly that far, whereas I knew the American ones could. I have since been proven wrong, which I freely acknowledged. Britain and America, amongst others, were in the war together against Germany, who did what to whom is not the question, just the historical facts of what happened, which we have now established.

"How impressively efficient of the Allies miwild!"

Indeed ... not only in Germany but also in other parts of the world

Quote from the first article found:


Including your good self, miwild?

Which article of the approx. 116.000 the link leads to ... if I may ask ?

The first result in the Google search.

Well ... I´ve neither read that particular article yet nor have I ever disputed any figures related to the Holocaust

And before you ask me ... I am not the author of any of the 116.000 articles mentioned above

When reading less biased articles, from easy to reach sources, seems like there's a bit less of a genocide claim. Looks more like an economy gone berzerk due to several causes, including perhaps crisis mismanagement. No specific, planned and meticulously executed plan to selectively exterminate entire peoples.

Sure, a death is a death is a death, and from the point of view of the Bengalese who died it's still the same horror, but putting the Bengal famine of 1943 on the same level as genocide from the point of view of the agent in charge is a gross misunderstanding of the concept of intent in ethics.

You can almost hear the authors of a lot of those articles grinding axes. Short of stormfront I can hardly imagine a less savoury bunch.

Google has 477.000 entries relating to "Irish Holocaust" ... looks like an inflation of axe grinding

miwild, do you know why that bomb was found there on the Tram line? It wasn't that the Allies just had a bunch of bombs lying around. It was because the Allies had to convert their entire industries to war production because a belligerent Germany figured it could run roughshod over all of Europe. We disagreed. We fought and fought and killed more of you that you did us. It was, at the end, yet another war of attrition and we turned out to be able to bleed longer than you. End of story.

Had Hitler not come to power, had Germany not become Nazi, had Germany not annexed part of Czechia and Austria and then invaded Poland and France, there'd be no fucking 60-year-old 500# Allied bomb by the fucking Tram 23. But it did and there is. DO NOT TRY AND REWRITE FACTS. The US was a neutral country in 1939. None of the Allied countries were looking for war. We were all forced into it by YOUR fucking grandparents and their peers. DO NOT FORGET THIS.

woof.

Are we stating the obvious now? Let me think now...

I do ... but why weren´t any Anglo-American bombs found on the railway tracks leading to Auschwitz and other extermination camps ?

Miwild, you are such a twat. Your family and their friends decided to get together and gas several million Jews, starve people, work them to death and then try and spread your insipid brand of nastiness all over Europe and North Africa. Luckily, my family and like-minded, upstanding good people kicked your fucking arse. Stop bitching you fucking apologist. The Nazis were twats, we stopped them, story closed. Maybe you think the showers and ovens should still be running in Buchenwald?

Ummm, it was a German bomb, BD.

Why do you girls like german fireman?
I do not see nothing "sexy" in them, especially their uniforms look very daft.

Or is it just cause I'm german?

Germans and english people are clashing into each other again.
When will that stop?

...and there's another thread derailed.

Jeez.

Ah feck off miwild - don't you dare call the The Famine the "Irish Holocaust". You are not attempting to raise awareness of An Gorta Mór/The Great Hunger you're trying to instrumentalize it in your thinly veiled attempts to revise history and make yourself feel better about your countrys responsibility for the systematic murder of millions. Don't try to run away from your history miwild, embrace it.

You da man ...

Why did you edit your refreshingly unapologetic utterings re: (alleged) allied efforts to systematically eliminate German civilians and "the lot of us" ?

Because I thought it was a little harsh, even when talking to a retard like you, but clearly, I should have let it stand. Would you like to do the basic maths as to who killed more, the Allies or the Germans? Just how many Eastern European POWs did you manage to murder in the death camps?

May I suggest two of my personal theories on that based on being an avid reader of history especialy the Enigma and Ultra.

1) We knew about them, but knew as it was all top secret and hush hush for the Germans, any all out attack to disable the camps would have led to a top to bottom reorganisation and check on the fallibility of the Enigma coding system.

This nearly happened a couple of times when the allies conducted the odd operation "too far" resulting in a frantic "Abwher" search for spies action. Luckily for you, myself and countless survivors of the death camps, the German High command were too arrogant to believe that their Enigma system was crackable. For your information there were plenty of times when the Allies knew the EXACT position of every U-boat and "Milchküh" supply boats. Somebody somewhere had to make the shitty descision to not act on this information in order to not raise suspicion. The consequences of that inactivity were the deaths of Allied sailors. Ultra information was more important than anything else we had. Without it we would possibly have lost the D-Day landings, lost the Battle of the Atlantic and the North Africa campaign.

As callous and cruel and cold as it sounds. The jews in the camps were doomed if we bombed the camps or not. The loss of Ultra was not an option, no matter what the collateral costs might have been caused. Those jews though and their families can be proud that their deaths were part of a third front, sucking in man power, logistics and resources.

2) We had no idea what was up, or didn't believe what was happening, and the camps were not of importance to us, they were not near industry nor any other target. If you have ever had the opportunity to talk to people who discovered the camps or the first to see the film reels and photos (I had the opportunity to speak to Abram Games who was involved in British WWII propoganda) you will know the effect. The death camps shifted the paradigm of man's inhumanity to man. It is something as similar to 9/11. Something glaringly obviously possible but never moraly or ethicly contemplated is thrust upon us.

As a German you should be happy that we didn't act and publicise the fact of the Death camps earlier. I do believe public opinion at the time would have insisted on whipping out Germany and the German people in Central Europe once and for all.

Rather than accept that Nazi Germany was solely responsible for the evils of the Holocaust, you pass the buck to the Brits and the Americans for not putting and end to it sooner? Impressive. That takes some serious balls.

... former President Bill Clinton said that the West has to "live forever with this knowledge ... (that) far too little was done," and that "rail lines to the camps within miles of militarily significant targets were left undisturbed." ...

... U.S. intelligence forces took them (photos of Auschwitz) during a bombing campaign on a German chemical plant nearby, which they carried out in August 1944 ...

... In an article Berenbaum wrote for Encyclopaedia Britannica, he quoted Wiesel, who was a prisoner at Buna-Monowitz, the slave-labor camp of Auschwitz, as saying that inmates were "filled with joy" over the August 1944 Allied bombing of an adjacent plant. "We were no longer afraid of death; at any rate, not of that death," he quoted Wiesel as saying ...

... The David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies in Washington issued a statement praising Bush's reported remark ("We should have bombed it"):

"The refusal to bomb Auschwitz was part of a broader policy by the Roosevelt administration to refrain from taking action to rescue or shelter Jewish refugees during the Holocaust. Tragically, the United States turned away from one of history's most compelling moral challenges," said Rafael Medoff, the institute's director ...

Ah now it all becomes clear - the Allies are responsible for the attrocities at Auschwitz for not bombing it and killing everyone there. Right. Good argument, by the way. Surprised no-one used it at Nuremberg.

miwild would you please post objective opinions.

Not quoes from Bush nor Clinton, who are politicians and obviously playing to a crowd full of modern PC sensibilities and the Jewish electorate. Nor from centres whos very funding and ideology would be rather weakened if they were to suggest anything else than the collective Allied guilt of ignoring the camps in order to actualy finish the more important job of that little war thing.

As to quotes themselves I realy dont see how they further your idea. The presence of a chemical factory near Auschwitz was not a major industrial target, but a rather risk free routine bombing run (not campaign crickey no wonder people like yourself can be easily mislead). The whole bombing campaign was one of risk reduction and maximum effect possible with limited capablities and accuracy.

Not that I wish to sound arrogant, though if I do in this case I make no appologies for it, I would suggest you do a little bit more research off the internet - which has more axes to grind in it than a blacksmith's shop after logging season. Learn to view things in the context of the social economic and moral and ethical parametres of the day. Not ours. You'll be saying next the atomic bomb on Japan was a mistake!

The German responsibility for the evils of the Holocaust are universally accepted afaik ... including by myself.

To this day though there have been - and still are - a number of opportunities to put an end to the evils of war and devastation for which the Brits and the Americans were/are solely responsible ... don´t you think so ?

Nope, can't say I can think of any.

Worse than a mistake ... a terrible war crime

Guessed so ... genius

Oh, you're one of those. I should have known.

Why? And what was the alternative given the experiences that the Allies had at Iwo Jima and Okinawa? Oh and do please try to answer with an opinion, dear girl. You are slowly but surely becoming living proof that the internet is a playground for information but not knowledge and wisdom...

You're missing the point Gideon, it was all the fault of the Allies, and actually the Nazis were lovely folk, who only wanted the rest of Europe to get along like a big village picnic. My god we're bastards.

Whichever you look at it, the bombing campaigns against Germany and Japan targeted military sites as well as deliberately attempting to kill civilians to weaken enemy resolve (Dresden, Tokyo, Hamburg, etc.). If you want to say that a civilian from country A is more worthy than a civilian from country B, that's your prerogative, however it is a very sticky subject matter from a moral point of view...

JW - morals in war are for those who have won to ponder about. There was only one war aim, to win, at all costs and come what may. It is unwise to think of morals when your opposition will stop at nothing.

"Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war, if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win."

Thomas Power, commander in chief of the Strategic Air Command from 1957 to 1964, speaking to a Senate defense committee during the Cuban Missile Crisis, quoted by Fred Kaplan, The Wizards of Armageddon

Quoted from

Curtis LeMay - Demented Cold Warrior

Yes, miwild, we should all remember how civilised the Nazis were when they crossed the Polish, French, Dutch, Danish and Russian borders and how well they treated the local populace. It's hard to understand how anyone can try and justify any sort of violent action after that.

woof.

The World At War: Whirlwind (Bombing Germany 1939-1944)

As always, compelling viewing.

I love the world at war. Laurence Olivier AND kicking Nazi ass. Speaking of which, the Battle of Britatin was on MGM last night - great stuff

Repeet pleeeze!

You could always buy it off Amazon, not cheap though.