Advice for a family of five relocating to Munich

Hi there,

My husband has received an offer from his company to set up a European office in Germany (near Munich). We currently live in Canada. We have three children (almost 5, 2.5 and 1). His offer is 50K base salary, plus an estimated 50K commission.
My husband is Dutch and speaks fluent German. I am Canadian and don't speak a word of German.
We currently live in a 3000 sq ft home and pay approximately $2000 (Cdn) / month in mortgage. We have learned that we will likely be renting, as opposed to buying. We are willing to pay up to 2500Euro/month in rent. Is that reasonable? Can we expect to get something comparable to what we have here?
My husband tells me that Munich is a beautiful city, but we would prefer to live in a smaller community for various reasons.
We feel strongly that our son needs to be educated in English since we will not likely be in Germany more than two years. I have investigated International schools and realize they are quite expensive. We are hoping that my husband's company is going to cover that cost. That being said, there is not much choice in that regard so our living arrangements will have to be geared towards school. I have been reading about the Franconian International school in Nuremberg. Could someone tell us about that area. Would that be a nice family community? Any idea on housing costs there? Are there any areas close to the Franconian school that might also be up for consideration?
Do you know of any other international schools near Munich (besides Munich International school or Bavarian International school) that might provide us with another accommodation option?
It is likely that I will be able to travel with my husband to Germany for a "look-see" in a few weeks time. We would have a very short time-frame to work with and would like to know if real estate agents (particularly in Nuremberg and surrounding areas) work on the weekends? Everything is open on weekends here in Canada, but I was not sure if that was the same in Germany??

I would really appreciate any advice you have to share.
Thanks,
cecormond

Hi, Wow! I had to double check to make sure you weren't MY wife! We're in almost the identical situation except I am the "husband with the job offer" and we only have 2 kids. Otherwise... ditto! Sorry I can't help you with much info as we are looking for the same as you but I do look forward to other's replies to this thread. I can tell you from my somewhat extensive business travel in Germany over the past couple of years that Nuernberg is a nice city but not that close to Munich. Depending on traffic it's about 1.5 hrs drive away, 1 hr if you drive like the Germans! I've been there once but was for, litterally, 3 1/2 hrs for a meeting. I drove there (from Munich) with a German work colleague and after our meeting he did a quick driving tour of part of the city before heading back out on the road west to Saarbruecken. That drive through the Rhine Valley was awesome! Oh ya, I'm only 1/8th Dutch and none of us speaks German! Well, OK, I can order a beer, say thank you and please and good day, etc. but that's about it.

Munich IS a beautiful city and this opportunity that has come up for me is like the chance of a lifetime! Thanks for posting this, here's to learning all we can!

P.S. Where in Canada are you now? We're in Montreal.

Sounds like you should look at Starnberg as there is an international school.

Is that 50k Gross or Net. If it's Gross you might want to do a good financial analysis before agreeing to shell out 2500 Euro a month on a house as, after tax, that's a huge percentage of your net salary. Perhaps the bonus offsets this but if you're paying for three kids at a private school as well the maths are already begining to look dodgy unless you do get the company to cover the costs.

I'd say you can get a very nice house for 1500 Euro in a more rural area outside of Munich but others who live near Starnberg may be able to give you a more realistic vision.

You could just search the internet , there are plenty of internet sites for German houses and your husband should be able to find them. Just search this site to find many.

Here's one to get you started

There are 3 schools that I know off around Munich that teach in English. Munich International School at Starnberg, Bavarian International School at Dachau and the European School in Neuperlach. Fees are steep, and you might want to see if your company will go some way towards offsetting these.

House prices do vary considerably, and the area that you pick will dictate what price range you are in. City centre and immediate area is expensive, and the area South of Munich (towards Starnberg) is also pretty, desirable and hence expensive too. North of Munich is cheaper (I think) and South of Starnberg is also OK. The benefit is that Munich has a very good and extensive public transport system that is used by everybody and which does give easy access from outlying areas to the centre of town.

When assessing house prices, remember that as well as the basic Kalt rent (cold rent) there will be utility bills as well, which some landlords bundle up into a single monthly additional bill called Nebenkosten.

When I came over here, I looked at www.scout24.de and went to the immobilien page. Look for the miete (rental) pages and then follow the menu system, choosing area etc. This might help you to assess what you get for your money in certain areas.

Good luck with looking and don't be afraid to come back for more info. Almost all expats in Munich will have stumbled through the minefield of finding a house, often whilst still overseas. We can't pick a house for you, but we can answer the basic questions to get you started.

For €2500 a month you should get a really good place especially if you live just outside of Münich

Not many houses here are 3,000 sq.feet, so you might have to settle for something a little smaller, maybe 2,000-2,500. However, rent in the Nuremberg area is rather affordable, and 2,000 sq.feet shouldn't cost you more than 1,500 € including all utilities. Probably cheaper if you get further away from the city.

Btw, you posted this under "baby items for sale in the Munich area", which may not be the best place to get lots of responses to your questions.

If thats gross you must be close to having nothing left for medical insurance, food or just living. Something in the equation doesn't fit. Never rely on bonuses.

50 basic + 50 commission = €100k, which is a fair salary (not mega fantastic but fair), especially since he will be in tax bracket 3, so should get over €4500 net salary plus child allowance, assuming he gets all the commission. Commission is not the same as a bonus but yeah you can't rely on it 100%.

Commission could theoretically become zero, so shouldn't the basic budget be made with only the guarranteed 50k in mind? That way you will never get caught short for the basics, and only have to cut back on luxuries if the commission ends up being less than expected. At least, that's how I'd go about it. We did our budget so that commission plays no role in our daily needs, and can be used for paying down the mortgage or for special extras that aren't required for simple survival.

Of course, once you've been working for a company for a while and have a proven track record, then perhaps you can start depending more on the commission, but I'd still be a bit wary.

We are in a very similar situation, although we have 2 children (11 and 9). We have already visited three international schools (MIS, BIS and AIS - Augsburgh International School). My husband's work is in Augsburg, and I quite like the city, however, the children prefer BIS in Haimhausen.

Is there a safe, family-friendly city/town between Augsburg and Haimhausen (north of Munich) where my husband can commute to Augsburg and Munich International Airport for business trips? What do you think of Pasing?

We are also Canadians, relocating for 2-5 years. I am really torn about the schools (AIS vs. BIS) and consequently need to find a house to rent. We are allocating approx. 2000 euros to rent. School tuition will be paid by employer (thankfully!) and moving expenses. That being said, I realize that we would need to replace tv/electronic equipment/small kitchen appliances. The cost to replace these can add up and that is our cost to incur.

We are planning the relocation this summer (August) for back to school, and would like to know how your transition/move went.

I am planning a follow up trip in early May to view homes, sign leases etc... I have an agent in Augsburg, but that is only if we cannot find a suitable home near BIS.

I love this site and thank everyone for their time and any information.

Benz

It sounds like Dachau and the surrounding area might be good for you. Pasing is actually just a suburb of Munich and pretty urban.

Last May, I came out with my husband to find a home for our family. We have 3 kids under 5 years old. We originally wanted to live in the suburbs - Solln, Pullah, Grunwald - but in the end found a fantastic place in the city. We got very, very lucky. One thing to keep in mind is that it is hard to find large homes in Munich and its surrounding areas. Lots of expats and very few homes. Every year over 80,000 expats move into and out of the city according to the "New in the city" magazine.

In our case, we saw a total of about 8 homes. The home was either in a bad location (like we saw one gorgeous brand new home but it was not located close to public transportation which we wanted), too old, floor plan did not work for us, kitchen too small . . . We knew that we would not find a home that would be prefect or have all the home luxuries we had back home in the US. So as we started to realize that we were not seeing much we were thrilled about, we opened up to the idea of living in the city. We got VERY VERY LUCKY and an agent that had showed us a 6 bedroom house in Schwabing told us about an apartment (penthouse floor) that just came on the market in Lehel (literally the tenants had just given notice). I've been told that Lehel is the first housing area (village) that was built outside the inner old city of Munich (just outside the ring). We saw this place and loved it! It is about 3000 sq feet, a few blocks to the Lehel substation, a block to the English Garden, supermarket and bakery and pharmacy close by. We even have a parking garage so we don't have to worry about finding parking on the street. The large size American size fridge was also a plus. This place of course was not cheap but well worth the extra cost. Rent plus utilities is over the 2500 Euro allowance you mentioned you had.

Most of the homes we saw were in the 2500 to 3000 range plus utilites which usually are about 10% of your rent. We originally wanted to live in the suburbs in order to get more space / an outdoor garden / play area for the kids. Living in the suburbs would allow us to be close to the kids international preschool and MIS which they would eventually attend. However, it would make my husband have a 45 minute to hour commute. By living in the city, my husband has a 25 minute door to door commute to work (Nymphenburg area) which is nice since he works long hours. The kids and I have a longer commute to school - 30 minutes to the suburbs. Evenutally when our kids go to MIS their bus commute will be about 45 minutes to an hour but lots of kids who go to MIS live in the city. They have big buses pick them up all around the city. Now if you live in say Solln the commute to MIS is about 25 minutes.

If you live in the city you tend to enjoy more of the city and the life it offers. People I know who live in the suburbs tend to stay in the suburbs.

Also something to keep in mind is that the suburbs do not have the extensive public transportation that exists in the city. Like there is only one tram that goes in and out of Grunwald. So by living in the suburbs you would definitely need a car or TWO and cars are not cheap. A fully loaded brand new Mercedes station wagon would be about $60K in the USA but here in Germany it would cost about 75K euros with tax. Buying a preowned car is your best option unless your husband gets a company car benefit.

In terms of cost of living, eveything seems expensive to me as an American. Sales tax is 19% and of course the exchange rate (Euro to dollars) does not help. Like I bought my daughters two Polly Pocket toys that back home would of have been $45 but here it was like 60 euros. If your husband's company adjusts his salary for cost of living and equalizes him for tax purposes then what you feel you can afford should not change. Tje other day I went to the supemarket and filled a cart with groceries. Total price was about $400 dollars - bought a few American luxuries like Haagan Das ice cream but otherwise basics like fruit, veggies, cereal, coffee, deli meats, eggs, soda, juice, pasta, etc.

Feel free to PM me back if you have specific relocation questions. But as someone else said, there are lots of expats here that are always willing to help and share their experiences / advice

Hi,

I am in very much the same situation, and am looking for a house for a family of four (two small girls) in the general direction of Starnberg. From what I have seen on the Internet (scout24 and such) 2500€ should get you a pretty good house, but I really think you should reconsider your budgeting, as your husband will be giving almost 50% of his gross salary in taxes (again, I am in the same exact situation and I have seen my payslip and felt queasy..). Also, houses and apartments might come without a kitchen (that is without any cabinets, appliances, etc. etc) so you might have to factor in the additional cost of furniture.

I am thinking of using a relocation service to find housing. I will have to pay around 1500€ on top, but I think it might be worth it.

Does anybody have any experiences with some of the companies that advertise on TT (especially SWIFT and relocation-muc)?

Good luck. We´ll need it.

What about setting up a commune of expats with small kids in the Starnberg area? Our consolidated purchasing power might help us a lot

We came out to Munich in January with our 11 year old daughter. After checking out the 2 international schools we all preferred BIS. There is a fantastic school bus service which picks up children from wherever they live (the map at the school showed children being picked up in the south). The bus collects her from the bottom of our road and drops her off there also so you always know they are safe. The teachers are really supportive and my daughter loves it there, they treat you as part of their family. Mr Lodge was where we got our apartment from as they were really easy to use online. Don't worry about not speaking German at first you will soon pick the odd word up and then maybe you could do a course when you are settled I think it is easier to understand here than learning off a CD.

Using an agent to find a home is very helpful. Apartments / homes that are available do not show FOR RENT or FOR LEASE signs outside on a lawn, wall, or window like in America. You find listings through agents, newspapers, websites like autoscout, etc. So you can try to find one on your own. However, one thing to keep in mind is that nice homes that are mostly rented to expats are many times listed through an agent - an agent that may have a close relationship with a relocation agency. Thus, relocation agencies often get a lead on good housing options that come up FIRST. That is what happended in our case. The agent our landlords have used for years knows our relocation agency and works with them often. We were the first to see our apartment and thus got quite lucky.

I don't know how much relocation agencies charge. Ours - Elisabeth Sommers Relocation (Munich), was paid for by my husband's employer. I highly recommend them. They helped us with housing, schools, resident visas, other government requirements, movers, utilities, etc. Made our move less troublesome.

Larger homes in the suburbs tend to rent for 2000 to 3000 euros - all depends on amenities, age of home, and location. One thing to keep in mind is that lanlords are not required to provide a kitchen - meaning your kitchen could be 4 bare walls with pipes for water, gas, etc. You have to install cabinets, stove, refrigerator, sink, dish washer, etc.. This would probably cost you about 10,000 euros I was told. Landlords are also not required to provide light fixtures nor closets - rooms can only have wiring for lights and 4 bare walls ) So you may have to budget money for fixtures and closets plus labor if ou don't plan to do it yourself. I had an electrician come out to activate a phone jack and we were charged over 100 euros. You can get charged for their travel time - typical service charge. IKEA is very popular out here. Best price option in terms of quality to furnish a home.

With regard to schools, both of the international schools are known to be quite good. On our tour of BIS, my husband asked our guide why should we choose BIS over MIS and she said that honestly they offer the same academic advantages. In general, families in the north tend to go to BIS while in the south they go to MIS. BIS is a smaller campus than MIS (about 1/2 the size I think). However, as all international school options both are expensive. Next year's school tuition is about 19,000 dollars plus transportation. International preschools are also expensive - like 8000 euros for tuition plus material fees (700 euros) and first time registration fees.

Hi,

We just moved here last Aug with our 5 yr old in BIS and 3 yr old in a great german kindergarten across the road. We were lucky enough to find a house in Haimhausen and can walk to school and I cannot tell you how much we thank our lucky stars that they are not on the bis. Its a really long day and if you live in the city they have very little time for anything and are knackered. A lot of families with small children at the school end up trying to move nearer the school. I highly recommend the BIS we are all very happy with it and it provides a fabulous support and social network for all of us. The school can help with finding houses.

Check out your tax and finance situation carefully but we pay aroun 1500 a month for a pretty huge house with large garden.

Here is my story of when I moved here with similar requirements. We are a family of 4 and needed a house with lots of space. We found a very nice large house in a small village south of Munich (everyone told us the south is so beautiful and peaceful) and it was right next to an s-bahn station. The beauty wore off in a month. I spent a lot of my time in my car trekking my children back and forth to preschool, shopping and where ever else I needed to go. I spent 50€ every 4 days in petrol. My husband traveled a lot and I felt very isolated down there. We did not go out much because it was such an effort to get a babysitter then pay her for 2 extra hours(sitters are expensive here) just for us to travel back and forth from Munich. So I told him it was time to move. I had found a house through scout 24 that I wanted to go see.

Pro's
the house had a single garage (at least one of us would not have to dig our car out of the snow)
it was advertised by the landlord!!! Warning if you go through an agent they charge you a fee equivilent to 3 months rent. ROBBERY!!!
The house was large enough,has 10 rooms and 2 1/2 baths.
2 houses down is a beer garden
2 houses down on the other side of the road is a small grocery store with fresh bread and cheeses.
A nice playground within walking distance
It is a 5 minute drive to my daughters English Montessori school
It is a 5 minute drive to the 8/99 autobahn
It is a 25 minute drive to BIS or your child can take the school bus which picks them up right in front of your house.
It is a 35 minute drive to the airport
It is a 5 minute walk to Pasing Sbahn which has a train going into the city every 6 minutes. you can even take the train directly to the airport.

Con's
It cost us 11,000€ to move 25 miles
we had to buy and have a full kitchen installed. ( germany is a little bizzare in the fact that most of the rental places here come without lights or a kitchen)
we had to buy and have 14 lights installed.
we have a small garden, however it is fenced.
rent was higher 2550.00€

Our quality of life improved greatly and that was the best 11,000€ I have ever spent. We now get to spend more time with each other as a family. So when picking an area, think about everything that is important to you as a family.

I'm not sure when you will be moving here, but we are moving back to the states around the end of July and this house will be available. Also everything in the house as well, kitchen, lights, appliances, sky satalite(british tv). Please let me know if you need any other information because I would have gladly saved 11,000€ if someone pointed me in the right direction.

Good Luck

One thing to keep in mind about the suburbs and using an S-bahn to get into the city is that you may have to walk a distance to get to the S-bahn. Also, it seems like the S-bahn line often has strikes (not sure since I don't take it but see posts about the topic a lot on Toytown). A 15 minute walk may not seem like a far walk but in the cold it can be.

With regard to real estate agents, fees can be high as Toytowner Xena mentioned but if your company pays for it no reason not to use one. Like I mentioned before, many landlords (especially ones who want expats as tenants) will list their properties with agents. Landlords know that big companies will pay the agent fee and also provide security that rent and utilities will be paid on time. We were asked who my husband's employer was and the fact that he worked for a big German company was a plus. By the way, security deposits can be quite high like 3 months worth of rent.

Many future tenants buy the existing kitchen, washer, dryer, and light fixtures from the current tenants.

June through August you can find a lot of expat moving sales- used furniture, appliances, car, etc. Friends email friends who email friends or you see posts at schools, Toytown, etc.

HI there
Moving to Munich is a minefield! I was already living in Germany and had been for a few years, and i just couldnt get my head around it! We eventually called in Relocation Muc and Katrin did a wonderful job finding us a house and doing everything that needed doing. What I appreciated the most was that they at MUC were always there to help sort out our problems over the last four years. I am led to believe by friends that this is not common! Anyway we are now extracting ourselves from Munich and have called Reocation MUC to get us out! Couldnt have survived here without them!

Hello,

I moved to Munich from England 18 month ago with my family. I was given a good financial package from my new company but no logistic help to move so the prospect of moving my family was quite daunting. I was recommended a relocation company 'Relocation' to manage the process and they were totally brilliant!!! I just gave them my requirements for location, price range, type of residence etc and the company arranged everything! The whole experience was very positive and I thouroughly recommend them. Katrin McKay ([katrin.mckay@relocation-muc.com) and her colleagues delt with everything we needed and found us an amazing apartment to boot!! - I think they have a range of relocation packages and are very competatively priced. I have recommended the company to a number of friends who all have had very positive experiences. I hope this helps.

Good relocation companies make your move / transition to Munich / Germany easier. As another Toytowner pointed out, they are always there to help / answer questions.

With regard to living in the city and having your children take the bus to school, the experience maybe great or bad depending on your child. My daughter keeps asking me when does she get to take the bus. She wants to go on a bus ride. A lot of the kids love the bus ride and take naps (especially the younger ones so time flies). Some parents give their kids a special toy like a Nintendo Game Boy that they can only play on the bus which make the bus ride special. My kids enjoy their drives to school (30 minutes). They are outgoing and energetic (not shy). Having to get up early to be to school on time is NOT GREAT. Driving them to school in the suburbs is nice for me since I get out and can do errands there after I drop them off. Finding a parking spot to shop is easier out there than in the city.

Hi there

We moved to Germany last August with our 14 and 12 year old. They started at BIS and haven't looked back - they love it there. It is a very friendly school and they will help you in any way they can. We were lucky enough to get a house in Haimhausen, and the school keep on record any houses that may be coming up for rent in the near future. It may be worth seeing if your Husband's Company will pay for the services of a re-location agent as they lined several properties up for us to see in a two day visit. Good luck and hope you enjoy living here it is a great opportunity.