I received a scary "Nazi" newspaper in the post

Kay, if you have anything to say about my posts or MT's, go right ahead.

Now, MT, where are the allegations of "anti-Americanism and anti-Germanism"? Maybe you are and maybe you aren't, got it?

One more thing, MT, perhaps you have an explanation for why you, garibaldi, and the rest of the brigade have been notably silent in criticizing Timmeh's viruently anti-Muslim comments?

Your trick Conq. is to throw the accusation of X Y Z and when called to provide evidence for it, fail to do so and say, well maybe you are or maybe you aren't.
It's a drip drip drip of dis-information designed to plant the idea amongst the wider posting population that person A or B is guilty of X Y or Z as being generally accepted as a given truth without having to provide evidence of it.

Commonly known as the "shit sticks to a blanket" tactic. And it stinks.

I don't agree with Timmeh's comments on Islam there, but that isn't the matter at hand.

The results from Hessen can give us hope in Munich for the next few weeks
Racist and xenophobic campaigning didn't help Koch out in the end.

I have already corrected you on that more than once. No where did I accuse you of being anti-American or anti-German? Nowhere. Punkt. BTW, perhaps you care to comment about what you feel the source of what you have termed institutional racism in the German state is?


Well, it it is part of the thread title, now isn't it? Are you going to lecture Timmeh about saddling up with bad company? I guess for some it is OK to be openly prejudiced against law-abiding Muslims, but no one can think negatively of violent criminals.


I didn't follow the campaign in Hessen, so why don't you show me what specifically was racist and xenophobic about it? Perhaps you agree that having violent criminals of any nationality who fracture a pensioner's skull in an apparently racist attack is undesirable for any society?

My inference from your comment is that you want to see electoral success for a far-left party composed largely of former Communists. BTW, the CDU won more votes than the SPD did in a "swing state". Now the SPD may well (as I expect) be in the uncomfortable position of being in hock to the Linkspartei, which I can't see as being any sort of advantage when the next Federal election rolls around, let alone in governing.

The thread is about far right candidates standing in the Munich council elections.
Before the U-barn attack on a pensioner, their big issue was the planned new mosque in Sendling and that may wll come to the fore again.
I don't agree with Tinnehs post there, but this isn't the place to go into a big thing about it.

The most cursory glance at the news would have indicated the kind of campaign Koch ran:

Hessen steht nun eine sehr schwierige Regierungsbildung bevor. Nach dem Einzug der Linken ins Parlament ist klar, dass Koch nicht mehr Ministerpräsident werden kann. Während des harten Wahlkampfes hatte der 49-Jährige vor allem auf das Thema Jugendkriminalität gesetzt. Mit Aussagen wie "Wir haben zu viele junge kriminelle Ausländer. Wer sich als Ausländer nicht an unsere Regeln hält, ist hier fehl am Platze" polarisierte er die Öffentlichkeit.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt2m2/deutschl...16/article.html

Also reported on the BBC and ARD news site in English.

The result in Hessen itself is VERY interesting, there's a thread I started for that.

OK, MT, do you think that Koch approves of violent crimes by Germans? Isn't one violent crime too many? Should it be OK for anyone to commit a violent crime? Wasn't the Arabella Park attack a heinous crime?

I don't see anything about Koch saying something suggesting kicking all foreigners out of Germany, which would indeed be xenophobic. That is more than just a nuance, it is a huge and significant difference.

I think Timmeh's disgusting comments are very relevant to the local elections here in Munich. Why do you think those who oppose the Sendling mosque oppose it?

Yes. Which is why, get this: If the two are convicted I think a custodial sentence is unavoidable.


There are two main strands to the opposition to the Sendling mosque.

One are local people who have concerns about the level of new local traffic that it might generate.
And have concerns about the high handed mannner Munich City Council operated in the planning process.

The second strand is the racist / xenophoib one that stretches from a bit of MIMBYism, chauvanism as far as organised fascists.

And the second group use the first one as a cover.

There was a very telling article a few months back in I think the SZ Munich section where a journalist went to a public meeting and just listened to what people were saying to each other when they thought it was off the record between like minded people. NOT pleasant.

Perhaps you can see why I am so digusted by Timmeh's hateful comments about Muslims. It is rather interesting, however, that you can divine everyone else's thinking (including smokescreeens) but think yours is tooo opaque to be divined in a similar manner.

At any rate, my feeling is that a prison sentence is not necessarily sufficient to protect the public from convicted violent criminals if those criminals will be walking the streets of Munich once again. Prison sentences in Germany are anyhow relatively light, but my concern here is for the safety of Müncheners. The attackers have enjoyed the benefits of German society but have shown a willful disregard for one of its basic tenets- that one does not commit violence against others. They have broken our trust and no one else should ever suffer at their hand.

I am making assumptions about groups of people, not named individuals.

I gather that sentences are lower in Germany than the USA.
From the contributions I have seen in the papers from the police, criminalologists and most political opinion there doesn't seem to be a consensus that sentencing should be harsher.
I also wonder if an individual attack, however appaling should be the trigger to generally revise sentences.

Given Timmeh's reprehensible comments about Islam, I don't hold too much hope for tolerance. MT, you cannot even bring yourself to condemn Timmeh's hateful comments. You seem to have a different standard for fellow leftists. No complaining about the company that Timmeh's comments might put him in, no concern about xenophobia on his part, nothing. If gay people were the targets of his hateful comments, you would not be so nonchalant.

I think, in fairness Conq, Timmehs comment may have been ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek, deliberately inflammatory as it were.

PB, I disagree, particularly given Timmeh's previous comments on Islam and Muslims:
[http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=eb680b365773e00d6e0b829857944377&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=Islam

But hey, your righteous indignation is certainly impressive.

See, this is where the classic "Do you know this TTer personally" element comes in to play. If you've ever tasted his home cooking, you'd know the man is the least hateful Buab, sterling sense of humour, an intelligent and affable individual, but like others here (I believe) derives inordinate pleasure from posting the inflammatory to provoke chestbeating. At the end of the day it's a spectator sport, a half/half/give/take situation, TT provides an invaluable service, which some of us support financially (not looking at any one freeloading author in particular), and a playground for banter and divilment. Anyways, the lads lying on a beach right now laughing at this. And I don't blame him.

Sorry Timmeh, I'll stop typing now.

To the guys who support (or at least think it is fascist to oppose) the building of mosques in Germany (the UK also for that matter) ... don't you think that it's appeasment to the Muslims? It's the islamic aim to run the world according to islam/sharia. IF you oppose neo-fascism, why are you prepared to allow an intolerant religion like islam to flourish and subvert our culture in the same way that fascism aims to subvert our culture?

Hey, why stop at Islam? Why not apply it to ALL religions. I'm an inclusive hater, me. Burn all the synagogues, knock down the churches. Nail 'em up, I say. Crucifixion's too good for 'em.

There are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, and obviously a diversity of beliefs among them. Keeping a mosque from being built is not going to keep Muslims from praying, and prayer (a peaceful activity) is obviously not a problem.

Religions are not fascist or intolerant per se, individuals are.

I might believe that if I knew this court jester. But since I don't, I'll go with the information I do have, which is consistent with intolerance and hatred (not only for Muslims, either).

Careful you don't fall off that high horse, now

...because the Christians and Jews don't want to stop my wife and daughter from getting an education, driving a car, leaving the house, being seen by a man not a direct relative... They're also no longer into killing fellow-believers who have given up their faith freely...etc etc...

Aw, now you're just nit-picking. They're all the same religion anyway and they all go on about how they all preach peace and love and actually they are all nothing but narrow-minded bigots. Apart from not letting women drive, of course. That's just common sense.

So many deliberate lies from one little man in one little post!

Anyway.
The racist xenophobe Koch landed on his arse in Hessen but the arrogant SPD didn't "win" either.
Excellent result there.

It's hard to say what will happen in the council elections in Munich but I think Hessen is an indicator.
If nothing else, it's clipped the wings of the two far right blocs.

MT, it is merely stating the obvious to say that if Timmeh's hateful comments had been about gay people instead of Muslims, you would not simply have said that you would not have said them, which, BTW, is no condemnation. If that is the extent of your "criticism" of fellow (far) leftists, you don't.

Interesting that such comments from a leftist get excused by some, possibly people who tacitly agree with the comments. Just curious, MT, but do you consider hating Muslims and the other remarks about Muslims made by Timmeh to be racist and xenophobic?

The notion of far right parties doing well in Munich municipal elections is farfetched, and thankfully, they will not do well.