Loud music upstairs and they won't answer the door

Ok, the people in the apartment above us enjoy loud music and really enjoy bass. It is possible that their speakers are on the floor which makes the bass particularly unbearable in our apartment. So I finally got up the nerve to go up there to ask them to turn the music down, but they wouldn't answer the door (probably because the music is too loud!) I rang the bell and then I knocked several times. I did this two separate times.

I am sure that some of you will suggest that I go up there when the music is not playing so they can hear the door but in that context I am a bit concerned about my German abilities. At the time that the music is playing I think I can make them understand that it is too loud, but if it is not playing I don't know how to say "Occasionally when you play your music it is too loud, especially the bass. Is it possible that your speakers are on the floor and if they were raised off of the floor perhaps that could dampen the sound?"

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Ali

Even if the speakers are off the floor and the volume is loud and the bass pumping you may still find this annoying. I was talking to a German friend of mine yesterday and she happened to mention according to German law you have three opportunites a year to breach the "quiet time" law and make noise.

If they don't answer the door, can you leave them a note?

My first thought is that if you want peace and quiet you are better off in Arizona than Berlin. Second thought is that you will still hear the music whether the speakers are elevated or not. Third is that you will be able to make yourself understood, hab kein Angst.

"Sorry, thein Musik is too loud."
"Sorry, deine Musik ist zu laut."

You are right, Ratbert, it was much quieter in Arizona. I also had a bigger fridge...but here I am.

I guess I will try to leave a note in their Briefkasten. Any ideas on what to write?

Thanks,
Ali

Wait! Would this be considered rude (using deine instead of Ihre?) Am I wrong? Or with the obvious American accent, is this kind of thing forgivable? I don't want to piss this guy off because he could retaliate very easily (stomping loudly, dropping heavy things on the floor, etc.)

Got a tape recorder? Record it for 5-10min, then call the cops.. End of story.

Sure it's probably quieter in Arizona, but everyone has the right to peace in their own home. If someone chooses to live on a busy road, for example, that's their prerogative, but we can't choose our neighbours. It's precisely because we live in such high density in Germany that the noise laws exist.

You are entitled to call the police if the music is too loud during the quiet hours, i.e. after 10pm (I think) and on Sundays. I would try to talk to the people first though. Writing a note isn't such a bad idea if you're not confident with the language (ask a German to write it and explain the language issue). Any second note that becomes necessary would be a warning that you'll call the police next time.

I would definitely not call the cops because of every little thing, unless you want your neighbors to hate you, especially if you have never actually asked them to turn down the music (I know you tried, but unless they were ignoring your knocking on purpose they don't). Write them a note. Or knock when they are not playing loud music.

"Könnten Sie bitte Ihre Musik nicht so laut aufdrehen, wenn Sie Musik hören?"

(Edit: Add the part after the comma only when they are not listening to music right now, or when you write a note instead of talking with them personally.)

Ok. This is weird. The music just stopped so I just went upstairs so that I could talk to them. I rang the doorbell, I heard someone coming to the door and then...nothing. I knocked. Nothing. Hmm. Maybe they know why I am knocking and maybe they didn't want a lecture! We'll see if the music starts again.

Oh! I just had another thought. Maybe he is also an Ausländer and didn't want to answer the door and have to speak German!

We had this on the "Neighbour won't give me my parcel" thread. Bear in mind that they don't know you're outside their door, since the bell is the same is the one outside. If you knock, they'll realise there's someone actually there. They may still choose not to open though. I rarely open the front door unless I'm expecting someone, especially at this time of day when all the door-to-door sellers are crawling around.

Or they may indeed be trying to avoid a confrontation.

Good that you didn't wind up with a conversation like: "No man, dave's not here..."

In our building there is a different sound if someone is at the front of the building and if someone is directly at your door. Even so, when I rang the doorbell, I heard them come to the door and then they didn't open it.

I didn't even know there are door-to-door sellers. What do they sell?

@Mariposa: thanks for the German line.

Most bell systems have 2 different chimes/tones depending if the button downstairs, or the one next to your door is pressed.
If yours only does one tone for both then its freaking ancient..

Have they met you before? I don't open the door if I don't recognise the person through the peep hole either.

No, I haven't met them before. We moved in a month ago. It is not entirely clear to me how people actually meet their neighbors here. One came and picked up something that I had taken delivery for him and when I tried to introduce myself to him, he looked at me like I was alien.

These days, internet connections mostly. Plus political parties and unusual religions.

Have you tried the hausverwaltung? I had a problem with a clock chiming very loudly every hour (and 1/2 hour) when I moved in. I went to the neighbour and asked if they could at least turn it down at night (as would be my right) but the slightly drunk woman who answered the door told me that that would ruin the whole thing with the clock and I should think about living somewhere else if I didn't like it. I called the hausverwaltung the next day and said that the woman's husband was very friendly and they would call him. The clock volume was then turned down.

The first step should always be talking to the person (or persons) upstairs. THEN, if they refuse, get outside assistance. That's just the right thing to do. Most people (and I really don't mean all people) will be considerate enough to do what is right. But there is that small percentage of people that just don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. If they continue to avoid you at the door, then you can leave them a note explaining that you made every attempt to handle the situation without any 3rd party intervention and that you are taking necessary action with (police, landlord, building manager, whoever) to get the situation the resolved.

I have already tried to contact you various times to speak about the volume of your music. Please contact me (name, apartment) so we can find an amicable solution without involving the house management.

That could get them moving, either towards your door or towards the volume knob. It shows that you are approachable and want to solve the situation in cooperation with them but that you also know your rights and will not hesitate to insist on them.

Very good, Sara. That should do the trick

In response to Ratbert's suggestion - when complaining to Germans never begin with 'sorry' as it gives the impression of weakness. Like sarabyrd suggests you need a polite but firm statement of the facts as you see them and a suggested remedy. Never apologise (you've done nothing wrong), and always appear confident and act like you know your rights (bluffing sometimes works), Germans usually respond well to a confident opponent and this approach promotes a feeling of respect from them. Never result to insults or threats as these are almost always counterproductive and can easily backfire. Calling the police is not a big deal here, they will almost certainly turn up and will protect your anonymity.

Thanks, everyone. So far there hasn't been any more music; but if it happens again, I will try his door one more time, then I will leave a note with Sarabyrd's suggestion.

I don't suggest doing what someone in our apartment building seems to do, start off with nasty notes posted publicly in the elevators.

(They swing off into wild tangential rants on 'Plebs' who don't deserve homes)

Ok, this is just funny now. Loud, bassy music playing again tonight. Went up there first time, no answer. Went up again a bit later. Rang the doorbell and 5 seconds later the music went off. I knocked after the music went off and no answer. But...still no music an hour later! So apparently it just looks like everytime his music is loud I should go up and ring the bell and then he will stop? Whatever...personally I am enjoying not having to actually confront a person but the music still being turned off!

That's a downside of living on the friedo/prenzlberg/SO36 side of things - too many groovers. Don't tell them you are american it might make it worse, say you come from NZ.

Update: he answered the door.

It was very weird. I said "Ihre Musik ist zu laut, besonders der Bass. So...mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut..." and then I made a universal sign (I think) for "turn it down" - I really should have looked up the word before I went up there. Then I said "Danke" and left. He looked like he was in his early 20s and he honestly just stood there and stared at me. He said nothing - maybe he nodded, I can't remember. When I came back down and I went into the kitchen to do the dishes and I heard it again (but I think possibly softer?) but then it stopped. I have no idea what to think now...

So have you already tried the letter Sara suggested?

If it goes on, it would be worth getting information on how to legally threaten the landlord/hausverwaltung with rent reduction. They're then able to make a claim against the noisy neighbor. Which doesn't always shut them up. But feeling the difference in your pocketbook might make you feel better.

If my flatmate had charged me for the 3 weeks I had boxes piled up in our living room, I wouldn't have gotten them out any faster, but it would have been a form of compromise that could have worked for both. Sadly, she preferred to lecture. Oh well. I recommend the money option.

Not true of course, only a common opinion.

I think it somehow got transferred in the minds of people from that rule on barbecueing in your garden... (which is exactly those 3 times per year).

So I was going to try to send put a note in this guy's Briefkasten and was going to use sarabyrd's suggestion but it is now too nice. I talked to him once and it has continued to be a problem - and he hasn't answered his door since. It is now Sunday (which I know is quiet hours) and his music (especially the bass) is very loud. Can someone please tell me the German for:

I have tried to ask you to turn down your music several times. Please keep your music at a lower level or we will have to contact the house manager.

Wish me luck.

Thanks,
Ali

Maybe he didn't understand what you meant last time as you said your german wasn't very good and he looked confused. He might of thought you just wanted it turned down that once for sleep/sick/child/ whatever reasons ans doesn't know it is that loud downstairs. Send his the friendly note and if nothing happens call whoever is in charge of your building and let them sort it out.

My other hesitation about sarabyrd's note was the "discussion" part of it. I can't honestly say let's discuss it and come up with an amicable solution if I can't have an intelligent conversation with him. Any other suggestions?

For heavens sake stop being so weak. Tell the fuckers to turn the music down, then call the ordnungsamt, or the police. Threaten them with legal action. And follow it up.

Maybe get a new translation saying that it the bass is loud in your apartment and if they don't turn it down you will be calling the ordnungsamt? Maybe you could also explain that you tried to say that the other day but are not sure if they understood correctly so have not called anyone yet?

Ignore Steve Shadworth's advice; that's patently ridiculous at this stage and will serve only to antagonise the people you have to live below. Start off as cabbagefairy says – a friendly note. The next stage is the Hausmeister. Only if the problem persists would you then involve the police. As for "threatening with legal action" – honestly, where do these people come from?

Thanks, Small Town Boy. I went up there again and rang the doorbell 3 times and knocked and they eventually turned the music down. This is not a permanent solution however.

My German version would be: "Ich habe mehrmals versucht, Sie zu bitten, die Musik leiser zu drehen. Bitte halten Sie sich an die übliche Zimmerlautstärke. Andernfalls werden wir die Hausverwaltung kontaktieren müssen."

"Zimmerlautstärke" means 'barely audible in neighboring apartments'.

Hey Small Town Toy..the name is Shadforth

These people, since you ask, come from Hartlepool

unlike you southern London twits Daniel

Next time spell my name right.

The rules are there to protect people like Alika. Having been on the receiving end of a twat downstairs who has called the police 5 times, the ordnungsampt, and the social services, just because my toddlers cry, I know all about the rules and what can be done, as I now have an official police complaint against me for "insultiing" him. Fortunately the prick moved out on Friday, and I stood on my landing laughing at him and took photos just to wind him up.

Good luck Alika, it must be a nightmare.

Alika,

Before you involve the police or even the house management, you might want to find out what these guys or these guys offer in the way of formal mediation.

Should this end up in court at some point, you're in a much stronger position if you can show that you first seriously offered a path to peaceable solution.

So I am writing the note that RainyDay suggested and I don't know the proper way to sign it here. If I was doing this in English, I might write something like "Thank you for your cooperation." I don't know what is appropriate here. Suggestions?

I would say something like "Thank you for your understanding", then sign off with "Mit freundlichen Grüßen" and your full name and flat number (anonymous notes won't help).

Thanks, Small Town Boy. I am off to put it in his Briefkasten - hope he gets his mail today...

I have the opposite problem as the original poster.
Sometimes I will try to watch a movie, listen to a talk podcast or quiet music and the people above me scream and stomp on the floor. The problem is that it is not loud at all, it's just that they can "hear" it because of the way this place is built. I can hear them having conversations and things, for example. I try to have things just loud enough for me to hear them and not any louder (and no I'm not hard of hearing).

Do I have to worry about them complaining if I just ignore them?
It's kind of unsettling hearing them yell and stomp and things.

Why don't you invest in a pair of wireless headphones and live in peace with your neighbours?

why should he have to, he's in his own home + it's not good for his ears.

Perhaps, the next time they do it, go up and speak to them, ask them to go down with you and listen for themselves that it isn't too loud etc. they should be a bit understand. We always hear the TV and movements from downstairs but that's normal and to be expected in apartment blocks. The only time you won't get that is if the people above, below and on either side are dead and nobody noticed, or if you live in a detached property.

Of course I'm only talking about 'normal' noise.

You guys need to move. I live in a big apartment building, neighbors above/below/all around...and I can't hear them, they can't hear me. God bless thick-ass walls. I crank my music all the time, can't hear it at all in the hallway either due to massive thick-ass doors.

People have different ideas about what "loud" is. If the neighbours feel they have to scream and bang on the floor then clearly there's some room for compromise. If you get a pair of good-quality open headphones and listen at sensible volumes then no harm will be done to his hearing.

Saying "Why should he have to, he's in his own home" shows a disturbing level of self-centredness. Housing is too dense in this country for people to be able to do whatever they want purely because they are in their own home.

Seconded.

That's just not the way things are done in Germany. Neighbourly feuding is a hobby, almost an art form. Here's an idea what to do: first record a real spine-chilling scream from a horror film. Naomi Watts does a good one in The Ring. Play it back at full volume next time you come back from the pub at two in the morning and claim to be sleeping badly at the moment. Gives them a bit of volume perspective.

but he hears all of their conversations and doesn't go up and ask them to stop speaking, and instead perhaps write each other notes, does he?

A certain level of noise, that is 'normal' for doing the things we normally do in our own homes such as talking, flushing the toilet, watching tv etc. should be possible. That is not self-centredness and that is no being inconsiderate. There are limits...

If the walls are that thin, then the complaints should be directed at the person who owns and maintains the building. Not the neighbour who is just trying to lead a normal life.

This would seem to be to be a search for an avenue of complaint rather than an attempt to find a solution.

Some building were simply craply built, with really thin walls, and often the rent is lower. The landlord is not going to soundproof the walls for you, so its obvious complaining to the landlord is not going to bring satisfaction to any party.