Bavaria's non-smoker protection law now passed

Ignorance is bliss, innit (or maybe dyslexia is quite common with the hooray-here-comes-the-smoking-ban-no-matter-what-brigade?)? MT explained the WHY over and over on the previous pages already.

You lucky non smokers! In Cologne we still have to suffer

This law is surreal and ridiculous. There must be a choice. Smoking places for smokers, exclusively, non smoking places for non smokers, exclusively. This is bad, very bad, because it limits the most basic principle of human choice. Something is wrong.

Ooh, you got the same law in Zagreb have you?

Having completly separate places for smokers and nonsmokers doesn't work either as most social groups are a mix or both.

Just educate your filthy-selfish-smelling-ignorant-bastard-smoker friends not to smoke. Or just break off the whole "friendship" thingie - smokers are this earths scum anyhow... we should strip them off all their rights, chain em and force em to slave-labour for the non-smoking nobility. This way there is no need for separate rooms anymore.

Can i have furry chains so they don't injure my hands too much when i want to light up please?

There you go Tiger!

First of all I'm not a smoker. Second, i believe in the right of choice, not repression of any kind. And third... you sound like one frustrated old nitpicking bastard.

Yep, in a month, but we got total zero of promiles of alcohol in blood when driving, which means you can't drink your regular... what regular, you can't even drink a half glass of beer when driving, since 2 years ago. And that same superb law is waiting for you as well, soon. One restriction always leads to another chain of restrictions.

Don't have a problem with not being able to drink and drive - only a complete dick would do something that stupid

Way to go


Source

You could have got it from this source, but your smoke was probably getting in your eyes.

Was back in London at the start of the New Year and it's hard to say but to me the pubs looked a lot emptier than they used to be. It could be the New Year thing where people don't go out as much but I did ask in one pub in Greenwich and they said that it does seem quieter since the ban came in.

As for the smell in the pubs it's nice not to have them smelling of smoke but the smell of stale beer, farts and stinky armpits was also not pleasant. I'm worried about German bars in summer as in my experience a lot of Germans are not big users of deoderant.

I must be a complete dick then. Nothing beats a drive across the hot sunny plains on your way to the Coromandel with a nice cold beer in your hand. Being drunk whilst driving on the other hand is a bit naughty.

Now that's a cracker, just wait until next time we meet you old gimmer

What the hell are you on about Timmeh? Are you some kind of golfing poof or something?

I'll give you a hint. I'm talking about something that starts with "D" and ends with "rinking and driving". What does golfing & my gayness or ungayness have to do with the topic at hand?

Wow, then you're better informed than your own government:

Sorry mate, thought the coromandel was some golf course or something.

Trust me, I am. Smoking ban will be implemented in one month and ridiculous '0 promiles law' won't be liberalized as well. Not in 2008. for sure. And this link you posted is highly unreliable one.

And to add my subjective summary; all these governments are a bunch of hypocrites, they will always find a loophole which will allow them to smoke in their own government buildings. What a brilliant authority example that is.

I remember working in Hrvatska Telekom, now T-Mobile, in downtown Zagreb back during '99-'01. You had to cut through a wall of smoke and Iron Maiden just to find the person you wanted to talk to. They're in a new building now and when I was there a few months ago it was all pristine and the only place you could smoke was one floor down and out on the roof. Oh the times they are a changin'.

That's what beer gardens are for. Nobody eats or drinks inside in summer.

That is the irony. In summer the air will be fresher inside than outside.

I just found this article:

Noise from smokers 'forcing neighbours out'

As from today, the law will be enforced with fines! Up till now there was a "getting used to it" period where only a warning would be given, but as from today bars/restaurants can be fined for not conforming with the ban.
Report from Bayern 5 in German.

There will sure to be a few newsworthy cases coming up then. These are exciting times. A bit like when the wall came down!

In the UK the largest increase in a problem since smokers have been forced outside has been: Litter on the streets. Discarded fag packets, cig ends and other crap the messy bastards just toss away because they're too fucking lazy, selfish, ... to just go and find a fucking bin like the rest of us do.

But littering is not illegal is it? If you look outside any S-Bahn/U-Bahn the piles of dog ends is huge.

Yes it's illegal.
Even if it weren't anyone with an ounce of common sense or respect for their fellow city residents would try to keep the streets clean
But when it comes to smokers it seems many respect only their addiction.
Bastards (those who don't have consideration for others).

Because ONLY smokers litter. Every discarded McDonalds sack is from a smoker. Every beer bottle laying around is from a smoker.

I thought you militant non-smokers were finished acting like a bunch of jerkoffs and moved on to something else? I guess that's not the case.

Simple solution? If 'they' are going to force smokers outside, put some fucking ashtrays and 'bins' (trash cans for real people) out and 'they' won't have to worry about it.

No, as long as there are halfwits like you around we'll be here to poke you from time to time. I'm not a militant anti-smoker, but I do dislike the smell of cigarette smoke intensely, and if you were able to read and comprehend you'd notice I don't make any broad sweeping general statements about smokers, just bring up the significant co-incidence that smoking related litter has increased around pubs where smokers have been forced outside. I even tried to use short sentences and clear formatting to help you, but I guess I failed. Maybe you need glasses, or an adult to help you read?

In that case, close all fast food establishments, all gas stations open after dark, and anywhere else that people (smoking or nonsmoking) congregate to consume food or beverages and throw their garbage on the ground.

It's really quite simple even for a feeble minded person such as yourself. Put trash cans where the smokers will smoke and there won't be a problem. As for me, I don't litter or throw my butts on the ground (unless you count knocking the cherry off to put my smoke out and dropping the butt in a sewer gutter).

Oh, be careful who & where you poke. You may lose a finger.

They do put litter bins at the entrance S-Bahn/U-Bahn stations. Often right at the non smoking sign. But so many people don't care.

Agreed, the real issue is just making people realize that cigarette butts are litter. Currently many people wouldn't think about tossing a candy wrapper out a car window, but do it all the time with finished cigarettes.

It's a matter of perception that needs to change, that's why its a problem.

well it's certainly not any of the non-smokers who chuck still-lit cigarettes out of their moving vehicles.
nor is it the non-smokers who empty their car-ashtrays in the gutter.

of course non-smokers litter too, as much as smokers I'd say, but definitely we can only blame cigarette-related litter on the smokers.

Those who are inconsiderate to others when it comes to smoking, couldn't give a damn what happens to the candy wrapper either.

That's not true, TFL has it right, cigarette butts aren't really seen as litter, that's what has to change.

Back when I was a smoker, it was hard to find garbage cans with ashtrays on the top. You can't really throw a cigarette (even if you've put it out as it stays hot for quite a while longer) into a garbage because you might start a fire. So you use an available ashtray or throw it on the ground.

I never litter anything else but somehow never thought twice about the cigarette butts, I just figured it was a better alternative to starting garbage fires.. Dumb, I know but I'm just explaining the mentality.

Yes. You are right about this perception.
But I was referring to the inconsiderate smokers.

Then, my friend, you are sadly in the minority it seems and the others are tarnishing your good name. I've never understood why people find it acceptable to just chuck litter on the street, if I were in charge the punishment would be to make the litterer eat what was dropped. Same with people who don't clean up after their dog.

I carry around an old mint tin & after squeezing off the lit end just put the butt in the tin. Most of the rubbish bins along haupstr in Heidelberg also have ashtrays in the top, the other week I dropped a ciggy in there and the bloody thing had a hole in it so the ciggy went straight in the bin, I wasn't too happy at having to use my newly bought bottle of water to put it out.

Just heard tonight, ANOTHER of my regular pubs has become a smokers' club.

The pub was officially non smoking but no one complained if smokers leant out of the window to smoke.
Until some random English speaking guy who'd never been there before threatened to call the KVR at which point all the regulars left the pub.

The landlord thought about it for two days and...smoking club.

Can someone list the places that are smoking or PM me, will be in Garmisch this weekend & might go to Munich for a brew look around. Also would we be able to get in to these places as random guests or would we really need a membership card or sommat or will showing a pack of cigs work?

Bars that are ignoring the smoking ban

Robert Manz, landord of the “Treff� in Memmingen and a former police officer, has found yet another chink in the armor of Germany’s strictest non-smoking law: He has declared his guests as amateur actors acting scenes from the past when there was no non-smoking law. According to the law smoking is permitted in artistic performances if it is necessary for the story line.


Says Willi, a regular, "I am playing a smoker in times gone by, smoking a cigarette according to tradition". His 20-year-old neighbor pipes up, “I am playing a non-smoker who doesn’t mind others smoking!�

Ivo Holzinger, mayor of Memmingen, is in a quandry. He could hand out a fine, if Manz contests it the District Court will have to fell a verdict. Another alternative would be to revoke Manz’ license; that case would be handled by the Administrative Court.

Did I ever mention that I'm a great actor...

I can't believe this is seriously being tried. The reasons why this is a bad idea are pretty obvious, since it opens up quite a bad Pandora's box. "No, we're just actors pretending to have a nazi rally, honest"

I don't know if there are similar laws to allow people to "pretend" to be Nazi's, but I remember this as a specific exception to the smoking law. I wouldn't have thought of using it like that though. Brilliant!!!

Anyway, does anyone else see now that there's a problem with this law? Normally, when a new law gets passed that you don't agree with, you grumble and groan and complain about it, but when it gets introduced, you try to follow it nonetheless. The fact that so many bars are looking for loopholes, or blatantly ignoring it should show that the way the law was implemented was wrong and did nobody any favours.

You should realise that if there had been a provision for separate smoking rooms or an exemption for small bars, then none of this would be happening now...

100% agreement here, that's why I've always thought anti-drunk driving laws were dumb... too many people blatantly ignoring it.

edit: I think its pretty obvious your ideals for law compliance are a bit colored by your opinion. For personal health/safety laws (as well as worker safety) grumbling, stubbornness, and attempts at non-compliance are typical. I'm honestly curious now what the compliance and enforcement rate for drunk driving was after it was made illegal... I bet it followed a similar pattern: "They can't tell me what to do"

Speak for yourself. For me this law has been a dream, and has done me many favours - I can go and eat out in a bar without some shit lighting up next to me, and when I return home I don't smell like an ashtray to name but two.