Bavaria's non-smoker protection law now passed

Agreed... I would be much more interested (perhaps we should start a new thread?) about people's predictions about what will happen... instead of all the garbage and disaster scenarios posted here.

then please don't restrict my personal choice to walk up and piss in the smoker's beer if he is smoking in range of my lungs.

I won't restrict his personal choice to take offence and want to take the issue outside.

I hope you include your garbage and utopia scenarios as well...

I smoke and I don’t have a problem with going outside. I cant guarantee that I’m going to be quiet after a few pints but I will try my best. I do have a question for the non-smokers tho.

Are you going to bitch and whine like a fook pig when you have to walk through a cloud of smoke to enter an establishment and when the summer comes are you going to give up your seat outside and move inside when a smoker wants an out door seat so they can enjoy a smoke in peace?

or indeed how well it works as no one can 100% predict how the initial reactions will be, and how it will eventually pan out.


I, at least, don't expect the place to be a non-smoking utopia, no one is telling smokers not to smoke, just restricting where they can smoke.
and I don't mind if beer prices go up if I can enjoy a smoke-free pint I'm happy.

Not in the slightest. Why would I moan about someone smoking outside? It's outside and that's just peachy, but I don't see why I should give up a seat outside for ya. Stand up, or get there earlier, you bloody lightweight!

very good question...

With the attitudes displayed by some of the antis on this board, you know this'll be the case.

I'm just going to go outside and smoke.

If I make too much noise, fuck 'em, it's not my problem.

OK so The TT smoking clique go out for their weekly TT Smokers Wednesday (TTSW) night piss up and sit down on the table next to you. All 20 of them light up and you are surround by a foggy mixture of Drum, Marlboro, Benson and Hedges with a subtle hint of cigar. There isn’t another table free. Are you going to move inside out of the nice sunshine, pay up and leave, or just sit there and take it?

PS you will get told to fook off the second you start making fake coughing noises and start wafting your hand around

Take the Outland for example, during winter those steps outside are going to be full of people sheltering from the cold. I wonder how lond before they try to ban groups of more than 3 people smoking at the same time?

well if you've no beer jacket on to protect you from the cold, put your real coat on. no need to huddle together against the cold and more than 3 of you can go together.
sorted.

Hey there, if you've bothered to read any of my posts, you'd realise that I don't mind smoke and used to smoke like a chimney myself. Smoke away, I don't do fake coughy noises and couldn't give a fuck, just get the fuck outside in the snow of winter, and I figure you've earned to be outside in the summer.

That has actually occasionally happened in Dublin, in some suburban pubs with beer gardens, much to the disbelief of the non smoker, who was asked to give up their seat. In 'some' cases the Stammtisch idea has also evolved, for smoking regulars, because the Beer Gardens were full of non smokers in the summer.

I have to confess to having had a slight twinge of Schadenfreude whenever I saw it.

I bet winter is great for Smirting

Why the hell would anyone expect someone to give up a seat just because one of them smokes and one doesn't? It's not the bus and you're not pregnant. Get there earlier if you want a seat, and if I were still to smoke and came back to find someone in my spot, there would follow a healthy discussion on the matter. Besides, get your non-smoking mates to keep your seat for ya.

Heh, agreed.

(some winter in the future)

"Hi, I'm incredibly loud when I talk, noise regulations prevent me and my friend from talking outside the bar at night. I noticed you were sitting here quietly, would you mind giving up your seat and sitting outside in the cold?�

“Certainly, I for one, am totally against regulation of this nature that prevents you from engaging in completely legal actions which might be a nuisance to others in certain situations. I applaud your valiant quest to choose to be obnoxious. Please take my seat.�

So now that non-smokers have their own way will they then want to go and invade the smokers only remaining sanctuary during the summer?

They have their nice no-smoking bars now they should go inside and fooking sit in them come rain or shine and leave the smoking areas free for those that use them. Lets face it the nazi non-smokers only point is that they dont want to sit in a smoky environment.

Or are we suggesting that bar owners should now lose even more income because smokers cant get a seat outside because of the selfish non-smokers and move on to somewhere else?

Look, you want a seat, get down the pub early and support the poor guy by drinking shedloads. If you're too much of a Linda and have to turn up later for your regular glass of babycham, then stand or befriend someone who can drink more and gets there earlier and get them to reserve you a seat. I wouldn't scouse your seat just cos you have to go out for a fag, so don't expect me to get up for you

you really dont know me do you


so you think its ok for the non-smokers to sit the smoking area? what was the whole point of the ban if they dont even care?

Boz, I'm sure there are going to be plenty of whingeing tossbags that will sit inside in summer, but then they'll probably complain that it's too hot anyway and fuck em - they deserve to be shut away so that the rest of society doesn't have to listen to their incessant drivel. Personally, I always enjoyed smoking and only gave up when my wife was pregnant, so I shall be sat in the middle of as many capstan fullstrength smokers as I can find. Although just for you, I can probably manage one fake coughing sesh As you say, the outside is the only place where folk can smoke, so I think it would be the height of bad manners to bitch about someone smoking outside

Boz, would you go outside in the cold for someone who chooses to be loud, as per my example?

well i will be outside smoking anyway so your questions fooking stupid Try asking one of the non-smokers

I'm sorry, I failed to account that this smoking ban equated to a total ban on your part from all public buildings for any length of time.

Well with the amount I smoke I will be outside every five mins so it might just as well mean that.

So would you give up a smoking seat for a smoker?

Nope, nor would I give up my seat to someone who chooses to talk loudly as per my example. I seriously doubt you would either.

Somehow, everyone seems to be operating on the assumption that smoking is some sort of god given right I should make way for. I’m sorry, you aren’t a pregnant woman I have to yield my seat to on the train… being an adult means you don’t always get to do whatever you want. Sometimes you’ll get there, and sometimes all the outside seats will be taken… deal with it.

Nope but ´it isn’t illegal and if you then want to go and sit with smokers after moaning about having a smoking ban then you are just an hypocrite.


And sometimes people end up getting a kicking over arguments about seats and smoking outside, I’ve seen one or two myself.

False, I don’t want to sit with smokers, I want to sit outside in the sun. I’d also be perfectly content if they banned smoking in such locations as well, so there is no hypocrisy there.

Blimey you two, have a martini and chill out!

Ach, I cant be arsed, Cash-in-the-Attic is on TV.

I will just take great pleasure in tipping TFL out of his seat when I want one outside

You sound like a bit of a selfish, cancer stick addicted jock! "When I want a fooking seat outside and you've got one, I'll just take it"...

I would love to see your type smacked in the head a couple of times for that kind of arrogance...

But I guess I'll just have to wait until your choking on your own blood produced by the tumors erupting puss inside your lungs... (I've personally seen the end result of this little concoction of chemicals you choose to inhale regularly... up close and personal at the end... let me tell you... this person certainly wasn't ranting about how she deserved a fucking seat outside to suck down the ammonia and arsenic laced nicotine)

Like I said, you want a high... get a real fucking drug! It's like you're fucking 14 and searching for that no longer existent head spin.

Oh... was that a bit harsh, sorry!

Not likely to happen any time soon, is it?

damn, Pleb... hit a sore spot?

you could say that...

We can all be holier than thou when we need to be...

and vice versa, the other end of the spectrum.

Anymore arrogant than someone who decides its ok to dictate to a buisiness what they can or cant do?

Anymore arrogant and selfish than someone who is all for the ban but then decides he/she will go and sit where the smokers are anyway just because the sun is out?


yea and that is my choice.


I jacked In the drugs four years ago

nope but it will happen

Apparently (SZ today) 200+ applications already went into the KVR to change the licences from pub to private club.

I was speaking tonight to the licensee of a <cough> "entertainment venue" who said they would not be putting out ashtrays after 1/1 but couldn't control what happenend in every corner of the venue and looked forward to seeing the face of the offiial that tried to inspect the premises during "vertrieb".

And this will be the end to a large extent of paying the bar bill at the end of the night I guess.

is that still a possible loophole in Germany/Bavaria ?? some publicans tried that in Dublin, and the feckin government stamped on it...Bastards

How long will it take to become a member of these 'clubs'?

I assume this means all these 200+ places think they can survive on the income of their regulars only?

I am not sure how long it will / would take.
I vaguely recall in the UK that venues that operated on such licences, it had to be at least 24 hours in advance or something.

Pubs that did legally become clubs would be able to offer that as a service to gain new customers that smoking was permittted.
It's not 100% clear yet whther it is legal but there is the idea to make a Bavaria wide club so the card would everywhere.
A couple of pubs I go to might do it and I would certainly apply for a card even though I'm a non smoker.

But the issue about having regulars is the point, a lot of the smaller inner city pubs are filled with regulars where people DO smoke.
It's less a question of whether they can survive with the regulars only, it's a question of whether they can survive full stop.

I am actually surprised that this seems to be possible, aren't you supposed to protect your
staff from the smoke ? This should hold for pubs and for private clubs alike. Or are they
going to claim that the staff are not paid employees but rather club members handing
out drinks for the fun of it ?

FFS people, please just write to your local politician and ask them to make smoking illegal and ban tabacco as an illegal drug. If that's finally achieved I suggest we go for fatty food or alcohol next... or both...

F#cking grow up and start worrying avbout serious issues...

Staff protection was not named as the reason for the ban here in Bavaria as far as I can recall. Anyway, every (potential) employee knows what the deal is if they get a job in these clubs.

But well done...actively looking for a solution. If this does indeed work as a loophole, then I would think that every pub goer - including the anti-smokers here will probably get memberships.

I guess the only problem will be for the tourists - but I guess they'll make some kind of deal with hotels and hostels to enable them to sign up members.

As I understand it, if they change from a pub to a club to get around this legislation, then they are not allowed to make a profit.

Once they've paid the staff (which can include the owner) no profit needs to be made...

And you can make sure you have a certain amount of cash available for unforseen costs. This can be quite a few thousand €'s depending on what you're doing.

Owning a bar it's quite easy - enough money to cover yourself for your cool room to break down or your electric equipment. Most places would be able to justify trying to build up 20 or 30k as a float in case of unexpected maintenence without claiming it as profit.

Heh, agreed... "non-profits" are often some of the most profitable businesses to run

However, the above mentioned rule might changes the taxes for the owner if they suddenly receive all profits as income, but this is beyond my knowledge

Depends how good his tax advisor is...

We're all going to look back on these ways people are trying to get around the law and laugh. The fact is, that when the ban comes in, a large majority of the population are going to like it, just like is the case in the other countries that have brought in similar legislation.

The pubs that convert over will end up losing business rather than gaining it, because no one will want to sit in a smoky pub/restaurant anymore. Unless these places are serving a small niche in the market, they'll fail as well.

I guess that's the reason why so many bars and pubs banned smoking themselves before the government did because they were losing so much business from allowing smoking.

Totally agree with banning smoking in all restaurants though.

Hutcho, you make it sound like publicans were forced to allow smoking on their premises.

They never were...