Opinions on international commuting

Hi,

(I have been lurking here for a while and browsing old posts and there was very little on it I found so I would really like any advice from you as English-speakers in Germany)

Basically, I would like to stay working in Ireland for mid-week (Mon-Wed/Thurs) and then fly out someplace else. Germany has always interested me, and I can speak at a very basic level (B1). In my career (which unfortunately I'd rather not say specifically) I am required to be absolutely fluent, and as such, it would take me many years to gain the subtleties of language and colloquial phrases needed to do it properly, and also, I would make around 3 times the salary in those 3 or 4 days in Ireland that I would in the same job in Germany which would be a 6 day a week job. The job here is secure and salary is around €140k.

Do you know anyone who does this? Would eco-warriors hate me? I am trying to get over the Island mentality here really. Many people in a lot of businesses commute from Zurich to Rome or other cities. From Dublin, much of Germany is a 2hr flight. So, is this a mad idea?

I am looking at what is good value for a place to basically live and have fun (I am 29 - but recently single with no dependents), and am thinking that this would be a good opportunity to get a bit of time abroad, without having to fully "move" or look for work. I see people working in London and living in France or elsewhere. Flights are cheap.

Why Germany? Because €400,000 buys you a two bedroom apartment in Dublin in a low-middle class area, perhaps an extra €40,000 for parking. I have been looking at the likes of Berlin, Frankfurt or Munich and it seems that for value for money, these are far far far ahead of Ireland, even excluding ideas of quality of life or anything. There are a load of other things I like about Germany, so it's not just property prices, but as affording a good life goes, Germany seems to offer a lot more (and not just because of it having bigger cities!).

So is it too much and is it crazy? I did know someone who did in reverse and they seemed to get on fine (as in, Ireland was the place for Thurs-Sun, and work in UK).

I think it sounds like a good idea. You are unattached, can afford it, and at the same time it would also be good for you because you could learn German. And the planes are going to fly whether you're on them or not. If you end up not liking it you can always just decide to stop flying to Munich or Berlin or whatever every weekend.
I would do it if I could...

A friend of mine did it for a while, but then got a bit fed up with the travelling and found a job locally in Germany. If you do decide to go for it, choose somewhere to live close to an airport, and don't choose an airport that only has a single budget airline flying to it, because they could scrap the route at any moment.

Are you sure you couldn't get a job here at a similar pay level? And what's a 6-day week? Not a concept I've ever encountered here – the country where the weekend starts at midday on Friday. Or is there any chance of working from home in Germany for your company in Ireland?

Another couple of questions: are you sure there aren't any English-speaking positions in your field? And where would you live during the week? Germany may be cheaper but you have to sleep somewhere when you're in Ireland working.

Thanks for the response.

RE: airports, Dublin is pretty well served by Lufthansa, Ryanair (budget airline but biggest in europe) and Aer Lingus to connections to major cities.

I am pretty definite I couldn't get a job at the same level in Germany. There are English speaking positions but very few. I already own property in Dublin for several years actually, and am figuring instead of sticking around here on a Thursday I could take off someplace a bit more interesting (at least for a while).

Just a note, Ryanair does not fly to Munich... not sure if that would influence your decision, but it's good to know I suppose.

Last time I flew Aer Lingus Munich-Dublin, I paid a pretty penny, too.

Frankfurt is probably your best bet as far as flights go, you then have the option of flying either Ryan air to Hahn or Aer lingus/lufty to FRA, but Frankfurt is also quite an expensive place to live, probably cheaper than Dublin though! I would say go ahead & try it, you have nothing to lose & if it becomes too much travelling all you have to do is quit.

Good luck.

I spent over 4 years commuting between Ireland and Belgium due to a long-distance relationship. Now that I'm in Munich I find myself flying regularly to Dublin. Many people fly regularly, for business or personal reasons so you won't be the only one. Contact Stanford on this site, I think he commutes between Munich and London.

Relevant to Munich: Aer Lingus are the only airline that flies direct between Dublin and Munich, and it generally only has 1 flight a day in each direction. For a few months a year it has 2 flights, but don't count on it. The flight is almost always full, and you need to book well in advance to get a decent price. Even so, it certainly isn't a cheap route, particularly if you are flying peak times such as Thursday/Friday and Sunday. Also, the timing of the flight means you often have to take a half-day off work and waste lots of hours hanging around the airport. If you add up the time to get to the airport at each end, waiting for your flight at the airport, and the flight itself, it all adds up to around 5 hours lost in each direction (10 hours a weekend). Still may be well worth it depending on your reasons, but it does get tiring over time.

If you decide to go ahead, another city may be better, one that has more frequent direct flights to Dublin. The landing fees are very high in Munich, so its unlikely that budget airlines will start flying here. Also, try to get a place as close to the airport as possible. In Munich I'd recommend somewhere like Freising, but be aware that renting a place in Munich is much more expensive than other cities. Having said that, I'm delighted to be living in Munich and am quite happy to pay the extra rent for the quality of life here.

EDIT: Does it have to be Germany? Some places are closer and have better flight connections - Amsterdam, Brussels (although I wouldn't necessarily recommend Brussels!), Paris ...

I did that for a couple of months and found it quite tiring but mine was a much longer commute -- about 6 to 8 hours. I had to take a taxi from Caerphilly to Cardiff, then the train to London, then get to Heathrow, then the flight to Frankfurt and finally what should have been a short drive to a town near Frankfurt. We invariably got lost (didn't have satellite navigation then) and had to keep driving around till we figured out how to get home but that was when we were new in Germany and everything was unfamiliar.

Germany is a nice country to work in though. The working hours are not very long and you get loads of vacation time. The salaries may be lower but I think the cost of living is lower here too. I've lived in Munich and Frankfurt and although Frankfurt is a nice place I think Munich is the best place to live in. The summer is quite long and very pleasant.

I would say definitely cheaper. In late 2002 I went back to Dublin for a few months, and ended up paying 1100 euro/month for a 1 bedroom apartment.
New building and the apartment was furnished, but nothing special, no balcony, and the area was definitely not an expensive or trendy one (Stillorgan)
The same 1100 euro/month would go a lot further here in Frankfurt.

other random price comparisons:
Public transport is similarly priced (but it's a lot better here, you won't get stuck in traffic on a bus), eating out is definitely cheaper in Frankfurt.
Petrol is probably one of the few items that's cheaper in Ireland.

I just love the logic of this argument.

I am off now to get me some powdered rhino horn to improve my sex life. I would feel normally bad about it, but that rhino is sure as fuck dead already.

good luck on reaching your goals!

Its something that I am aiming to be doing in 3-4 years time (im 29 too, but theres no way I could afford to do what you are doing right now)

would love to spend my weekends in munich surrounded by mountains, lakes, beer and quality fanny

I suppose that's the other thing to consider, as gg said. You may have a 2 hour flight, but the sods are going to make you be at the airport 1-2 hours before take off, you're going to have to get through customs at the other end and then get to your digs, so your probably looking at 5 hours? A former colleague of my wife commuted from London to Ireland as his wife was still in Ireland, but I think he was pertty naffed off with the whole arrangement

Yeah the drama of flying has nothing to do with being in the air for 2 hours. The drama is getting there in time for the check-in, flight delays, dehydration, shitty cramped seats, airport parking, customs officials, other passengers, lost baggage. Even a 3 minute flight would take you 4 hours door to door. Flying should ONLY be undertaken for going on nice holidays - any other reason sucks. Business and commuting are two of the crappiest reasons I can think of for boarding an aircraft.

Eco-warriors would hate you, yes. What's the point of these superfluous flights and extra stress upon yourself? Either decide to move, or don't.

Hahn is 2 hours away from Frankfurt by bus, not really practical and flying ryanair can be soul destroying. Frankfurt airport is not that far away from the city, about €25 taxi ride or else you can get a train. The Aerlingus flights are normally reasonable enough to Dublin as well.

Is that from the pain you must feel at the thought of putting more cash in the pocket of Michael O'Lairey?

If you want to do it and can afford the cost, time, and yes a bit of transit hassle, why not. If it doesn't suit, you can always do something different. If you're paying for this jaunt yourself, then my advice is:

1. talk to tax advisors first to make sure you're not going to be hit with any surprises on either end. Germans love taxes.
2. really make sure you can swing this at work, for example it shouldn't be a big deal if you miss a flight or two and have to miss a few hours or a day.
3. stick with one airline for all the usual reasons.
4. set yourself up on a temporary basis. Short term, furnished housing and no more than your normal baggage allowance. Short term housing is more expensive and probably less comfortable but its easy to walk away from. Beside, if you're coming to experience Germany than you don't really need a pimped out flat with all the comforts of home. One exception I would make is for internet and a local, probably pay as you go cell phone. That way you're not stuck in some seedy internet cafe racking up international roaming when you're trying to make weekend plans with your new German friends. Basically give yourself the opportunity to turn out the lights and walk away - you can settle in more when you're positive this arrangement works for you.
5. and this is a bit personal but you should think about limiting visitors for a while. Its easy for family/friends to just tag along with you or drop over for a weekend. You might end up hosting more than getting the experience you're after.

Goodluck,
jml

(slightly OT) I think part of the problem here is that flying is considered a business expense and, therefore, tax deductible.
In my ideal world, the taxman would say "no, I am not subsiziding your flights. But here is an incentive for a professional videoconference system, so you can talk with your customers"
Same thing for business cars. I don't understand why we can't use technology to help here.

I agree 100%. They should be taxing the hell out of "business" travel and making professional conferencing over the internet super tax friendly. Flying all these tosser executives around the world is such a buggering waste of time and money. Half of them only do it to escape the wife and kids, then to get some golf and drinking done.

Lots of people at our place do it the opposite way round, ie. living in the UK and commuting here for the week.

Isnt that a rubbish way round to do things? getting paid less and then losing out with the exchange rate?

Peck, you do understand what the word option means dont you?

You shouldn't have any tax issues to worry about if you're not earning any income in Germany. Even if you do a little bit of work here, under the 180-day rule you'd declare any income in Ireland anyway.

They don't get paid less, they are contract staff.

I did it for 6 years: weekends in England, workdays in Bielefeld. Not sure I'd recommend it though unless the firm is paying for the flights, hotels, meals and hire cars. Even then, I think it was the end of my first marriage. She developed a social life that I really couldn't be part of because I was stuck in a hotel a few hundred clicks away.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, they've given me a lot to think about. That last sentence above is really what is on my mind. Right now, I can spend the weekend in Dublin, or I can get on a plane and make the effort to do something more out of the way.

RE: taxes - they would all be in Ireland if I spend more than 180 days there anyway. I see your points on check ins, the extra travel stuff with air travel and so on. I would disagree on air travel being used for holidays - I prefer to drive (quickly, around the Eifel mountain region ). It's interesting that some have done it and some don't like the idea - but seriously, while it may take 4 hrs each side with checkins would that be worth it over 2 hrs in traffic in Dublin? More about the opportunity to see a little more of the world than just through holidays at the moment.

That people are doing the other way is quite surprising, but I suppose nothing suits everybody. I used to work in Manchester last year and live in Dublin (same deal), commuting every week. That's when the idea hit me that a 1 hr flight could easily be a two and half hour one and then so many more possibilities are opened up.

Frankfurt seems like a logical choice based on location and it's well serviced by air travel from Ireland.

Yeah except even if one ticket goes unsold the plane will fly, will use the same amount of fuel etc. If you do not buy a rhino horn then one rhino less has to be killed. A rhino horn (if you stick to that example) only serves one person, a plane serves many people.

Trust me on this. A powdered rhino horn serves a lot more than 1 person. My example was fine. Have you seen how big a bloody rhino is? Its $11,000 per pound.

If Mr. Flyer and all his buddies fill the plane - they will add more flights to the route.

If Mr. Aphrodisiac and all his buddies use the powdered rhin horn - they will kill more rhinos.

My bad, I thought we were just talking about the horn. I do agree that Mr. Flyer and all his buddies add more flights. But this was a question asked by a single person. In which case it really does not make a difference, unless you go and convince another 100 people to stop flying or commuting so an airline cancels a flight.

Hi,
In your first post you stated
"In my career (which unfortunately I'd rather not say specifically) I am required to be absolutely fluent"
A phrase my Germany Prof in Ireland always used was " the best way to learn the language was through love"
Ireland and Dublin is full of Germans. Maybe start there with a German speaking partner if the language is so important for you job.

Best of Luck to you.

I am sorry but in my humble opinion - your argument is total and utter selfish bollox. Otherwise this would apply to any activity that individually was negligible but en masse has an effect. This reflects on the whole basis of the society in which we live. In theory there is no point in any of us individually worrying about global warming, world disease, famine, water shortages, mass extinctions, AIDS, war, poverty etc etc if we choose to view everything from a "me-on-my-own" basis.

The whole point of living in a society is that we understand and appreciate that our individual actions when viewed alone are often negligible, but when put together with others, has a major effect.

Just because a plane carries 100 people - does the same argument apply for a car that carries 4 people?

I have been internationally commuting for around 5 of the last 7-8 years, its a pain the arse but as an IT mental prostitute who sells his brain power and skills to the highest bidder its a necessary evil,

but JE is right its not the flight its all the agro before you get on the the plane