Germany is seeking to ban Scientology

@ me

"... I can't stand for that [way of thinking]"

Alles klar. As you were.

@sharpe - wanted to quote your whole post, with yet another quote in it, but no matter. So Sharpe, you are telling me, that you would rather be a fundamentalist, and follow a book to the letter? A book that has been interpreted then translated and then interpreted and translated over and over, rather than begin to seek a deeper wisdom, and firmer beliefs by questioning this book? Do you not understand that it's asking questions in the first place that form the basis of a solid, firm foundation of faith, that not only can stand up to those who also question it, but allow you to have a more meaningful relationship with God?

It makes me sad when people take "the simple route", which is completely incompatible with the search for truth and wisdom. I have seen so many Christians like you it makes me very sad. You have to know why you believe, and you can't do that without asking questions.

I know I'm probably speaking to a brick wall, because if you learned Christianity like I suspect you did, the more of this I put in your direction, the more stubborn you become. it's really such a pity that in life you simply want to be told what to do. That's basically what you've admitted to everyone here.

@parnell

What are you saying then? In the bum = no babies ?

@horseshoe7. It takes great courage for many to step out from the world they have known and accept that all they have known as the truth isn't. You're right, you are talking to a brick wall as the truth is clear. To them. One day hopefully they work things out but you'll never win a theological argument. It can be fun arguing with Dino and the like though. Accept them for what they are, believing in something deeply that they wouldn't if they ever got themselves to a state of freedom of mind.

All religions are fundamentalist. You can not say i believe that part and i don't believe this. If you do, you just cheat on yourself. Religions are not about human spirituality. Religions are all about order and punishment. Freedom (Free thinking) and Organized religion can not go together.

Tell that to Munich's new Archbishop Marx, sharpe.
"Where the spirit of the Lord reigns you will find freedom" (my translation)

One then has to define where the spirit of the Lord is reigning. It's probably right , in all places people think it is it's the pope or other such scum.

You can be more generic and just say that anybody who is religious is incapable of rational debate as their reference point is skewed. Dino's endless fun and does a great job of being an advert for all that's wrong with religion.

I didn't realize you were such an authority, but sadly I don't believe your statements to be true. The church of England (Anglican / Episcopalian) is deemed religion, though their focus tends to be on the core message of Jesus' teachings, with plenty of room for theological discussion, wrapped up into a tidy and traditional form of worship. Most sermons are not of the finger-in-your-face "this is how it is" type, rather the "this is how we could apply this particular passage to our lives in the modern context", or "this is what I believe is meant in the context of our present day lives" and as such gives us more insight into the nature of god. Let's face it, if truth were so absolute as some denominations like to maintain, then we wouldn't have so many different denominations within the Christian faith, would we? We would all see god in the same way and there would be no reason for debate. This is why a hot topic right now in the Anglican church is how the church should look upon homosexuals. Your first instinct is to say, no way, homosexuals can't be ministers (or they shouldn't even be here at all for some extremists), but since Anglicanism is rooted in theological discussion, it's not a cut-and-dry issue. For example, if all sins are equal under god, and no human is perfect, I'm sure you'd turn a blind eye to a person who now and again tells the odd lie, or gossips on his neighbour, or now and again has a few drinks too many. Are you now going to have a sin police watching every pastor, priest, nun, or monk? By this accord, homosexuality is on equal footing as gossiping (i.e false testimony against your neighbour). It's just way less socially acceptable.

So, I believe free thinking and religion DO in fact go together, and it is this togetherness that help religion maintain its place/relevance in the modern world. Why didn't Jesus talk about microchips implanted in one's brain to alleviate depression, for example? These texts have to be interpreted for a modern context, and to do that, one has to allow themself to question their beliefs, and hope they do in fact stand up to such questioning. Another reason to never take every word of the Bible as the literal word of God. Because actually, it's a compilation of books, written by sinful men saved by the grace of God, but men nonetheless, compiled during a time where Christianity has a very different face than it does today, and compiled by this group of men who at that time were deemed to be "wise". Wise is another word that changes with the times. Please, there is a bigger picture that should at least be considered before being scoffed at.

Please don't oversimplify your answer.

You are lucky that Baddoggie is not here

Believe what you like HS but it doesn't stand up to any serious analysis.

what doesn't stand up to analysis. what's baddoggie all about?

i'm just stirring up the pot. I don't like church all that much to be honest and haven't been in a long time. I just felt like a bit of fairness was in order when i read that all religion should be banned as it was likened to a degenerative disease or something like that.

whatever. i hope you folks aren't really crazy intensely serious or anything. man the only thing on this i know to be TRUE is absurdity.

Your arguments have holes as big as Pacific Ocean and he would kindly show them to you

dude, hello? Topic = Religion, holes in arguments? Na klar. Did you actually expect someone to have real "answers"??

That organised religion is evil. I am. My value system is based on personal freedom and religion is against that. Do as we say because we/god says so. It's the truth (as we have interperted the book).

I find their entire existence offensive. Why do people never stick up for non-believers? Why do people feel the need to justify religion and all it's inherent hatred?

Starve or not? Not starving, thankyou. I also think that conservative right wing politicians are pure scum, but I'll take their tax cuts.

I'm not a septic. Black or white? Fuck yes, it certainly is black or white.

well anyway, that article about the day care center being shut down is interesting. i don't get it, why does scientology stand out so much as opposed to other religions? i think just about any religious day care center would make some moves towards brainwashing children.

when i go to the u.s. i see a lot of things are pretty messed up over there, but i don't see scientology having that much or anything to do with it. they seem to have full freedom to brainwash people in america, but aside from seeing some old kirstie alley book preaching about the merrits of dianetics in the 1 dollar sales section at a tiny public library, i don't see that they're pulling any strings that really matter. unless they're maybe secretly controlling the u.s. government, that gets into the far out realm of conspiracy theories.

what is the german government afraid of? does it not trust it's own people to deal with this kind of thing on their own? i suppose they should maybe be taxed as a business and forced to keep all their financial information open to the public, but any other kind of restrictions against them seem pretty crazy to me.

like already said before .. they are not recognize as a church in germany and are under observation by the Verfassungsschutz because of "Bestrebungen gegen die freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung" (anti-democratic tendencies)

see http://www.verfassungsschutz.de/de/arbeits...af_scientology/

Anyone thinking about signing up with the COS should watch this first.Tom Cruise on Scientology