Germany is seeking to ban Scientology

He has revealed through His Word, Nature and selectively personal visions/dreams.

The problems is that mankind constantly try to deny His revelation or try to attribute it to something else.

Look at the humans and you know there are only 2 kinds. (man, woman). And only between them can natural reproduction take place.This is attacked now.
Look at the world and we are trying to explain how evolution works, when it is plain that without a creator it is impossible to have all conditions in place for complex life
to come about. This is attacked now.
Look at His Word revealed as Jesus and everyone tries to negate either His existence or authority.
Look at the written word (Bible) and ..nuff said...

May God have mercy on us all! When one day we are standing in front of His throne or He comes to Judge.

The lazy answer to the big questions.

S'funny. That's how the little green men exist as well.


I hope you're also preparing yourself for the biggest letdown of them all.

I don't have to prepare, since if there is no God, we are both in the same boat.
YOU better be prepared, because if there is a God, you are in big trouble.

as for me I KNOW there is a God.

Just because one doesn't know something doesn't mean that the only explanation is an omniprescent being.

The bible is as much his written word as the SZ is his written word. It is the product of man forming the basis of one of the world's most successful money making schemes.

Nah - get a big enough sample size (let's say, for the sake of argument, something as big as the universe), and the chances of everything being just right at least once will be approaching 1.

Even in Germany then if you drink enough beer you will eventually find one that tastes ok...

exactly.

Need more proof of trying to negate His revelation ?

Do you have any idea how large the universe is ?
good. keep quiet.
And you can even fathom how long eternity is?
good. keep quiet.

Piss easy in the highly unlikely event.

God: Sin. You didn't believe in me!

Sin (me): Well. You made me.

God: Oh shit! (Disappears in a puff of smoke)

Sin (me): That looks like a comfy chair. Wonder what I can do to improve things around here? Oi! Peter you dozy twat. Stop lurkin' around by the gate with that clipboard and bring me a beer and a spliff, bitch! Oh! And if any of them nutters turn up saying they believed all that nonsense, show them into the lift and press the button for Basement, OK?

Very, and very, which leads to the conclusion in my previous post.
Basic statistics and probabilities, and not a miracle in sight.

"Keep quiet": the answer given by religions down the years to people who think.

It would go like this:
God: Sin. Why should I let you in to my heaven?

Sin (me): Well. You made me.

God: I made the angels who rebelled also, and they got kicked out, and you are not different

Sin (me): Well. I have been pretty good to all.

God: In Who's standards? The Worlds? your own? Did you even harm anyone by deed, word..etc So there you blew it.

Sin (me): Well. I have given to the poor and did a lot of charity work.

God: Does not count to enter here. Only way is that you pay the full penalty for Sin! yourself! and you cannot do that even if you sacrifiece your life, because you are full of Sin!

*Sin goes away*

(last part sounds funny)

"very": an answer given by people who cannot even fathom the sizes they talk about!

Dino, what will happen to gay people during the... what is it called? Second coming? Rapture? I'm specifically wondering about potentially closeted young people who have profiles on gay chat sites and order very bad popera crossover albums by the ten tenors on amazon.

The gay people will have the same results as the hetrosexuals.
There is no difference.
Only those who are born again will ever be saved.

Erm, Dino, this is what you do.

That's a surprising answer. Most fundies and reborns are very much into the self-loathing thing.

I think we should leave the poor bugger to his or her dillusions.

@ Sin: you're right, I'm sorry.

What was the question again?

Oh... wait. Ok nevermind.

It is not for me to judge.
Even if it is a sin, there ar millions of other sins we don't focus on every day.
Lets not be hypocrytes and judge.
God will judge. We only have to tell what God has revealed. It is upto you to decide and face the consequences.
And no excuse will stand in the face of God.

I didn't want to confuse you with big words like infinity.

Take an event with a probability greater than 0 (even if only infinitesimally so), such as the start of life on a planet.

With a sample size tending to infinity, the probability of that event occuring will tend towards 1.

As Tina Turner didn't say, what's god got to do with it?

But Dino, this is where you shoot yourself in the foot every time. Judgment in someone/something else's name is still judgement. I applaud your peace with your identity, your nature, and personal choices, but wonder that you don't notice how you turn the rest of your judgement on others for not sharing your religious beliefs. That's conditional love, a/k/a judgement.

Dino,

Imagine there is a God, just for a moment, if you will. Do you think he/she/it would create something just to sit and watch it waste an entire lifetime concerned about death and the afterlife instead of getting on with that life and living it to the fullest thereby making the creation of that life worth the maximum?

The concept of a God is an oxymoron all on its own.

you fail to that this life is nothing compared to the contents and length of eternity.
Just for a moment imagine that the 100 or years each human has is nothing compared to eternity and that this test you have will decide your eternity.
Do you think living life to the fullest on earth will matter now? yes. But in comparison to eternity, the more important thisng should be our focus.

If the sample size can go to infinity, then yes. But it never does.
( Assuming we can think of infinity...now how much was that ?)

God has everything to do with it.

A Friend of God

Agreed. On reality and not on myths.

I must Christianly ask all of you to relent from the impious scourging you have visited upon my religious sidekick, Dino. Has he not this very day accepted that homosexuals as well as hetrosexuals(sic) can appear before the throne of the Lord God almighty. It is only a matter of time until feminesbians can join the throng at the Gates of Heaven. When my friend is not in the Holy Closet, he is bringing the Word of God and his Son our Redeemer together with the words of the Latter’s Most Holy Virgin Mother and his Cuckolded Stepfather to those of you who fail to see the obvious: there is only Dino’s God. Dino’s God does not reveal himself to TTers who do not kneel surreptitiously around man made altars of idolatry to receive The Holy Müllerbrot Sacrament which represents the body of The One and Only Son but doesn’t taste at all like steak. Dino’s God reveals itself to Dino’s People who chant and rant and never get into the charts. Dino’s God does not like to be seen,with or without a willy or fanny, but only to be felt. I beg of you to support the one true TTer –Dino – and give him the free rein he so desperately needs to strangle his own convictions. His vertiginous stance on the butterbox has turned him into a sour man who needs our Love and Support. I offer it to him on this Holy and Despicable Godly created night in the fervent hope that he will take me into his outstretched arms and offer me the balm of salvation. Let ye do the same!

Hey Pas,

Carefull there. Saying that religion is constantly re-evaluating and re-interpreting itself makes it sound like science :-)

Politics also changes in this way. Interpreting/seeing things in a new way is not given to us by science, its a natural human thing to do.

People will not just use the bible (or any religious book) to justify or defend any action. People will use any justification they can. Anyone wanting to use any organisation for their own end will use anything to justify what was done.

Crusades - Defend the holy land
Russia (Stalin) - Defend mother russia
Cambodia (amin or pol pot, not sure) - Defend the state
Inquisition - Convert the unbelievers
Burning witches - Routing out the devils influence.
Balkans (old yugoslavia) - many problem, many causes all usualy leading to people being killed.

All the above were justified by either people using a situation of poeple actualy believing in what they did (and the belief is not limited to religion). Some of the above can be put down to ignorance, burning people as witches for example. However its not easy to look back 100's of years and judge poeple. They did not have our view of the world. The japanese treatment of the chinese although more recent still shows a certain ignorance as to the fact that people are people and no group is less than another and no group is less than an animal.

Its easy to look back and say 'look at what the inquisition did'. Its also easy to say 'look at what stalin did'. Each example is not (as is used) an attack or defence of religion. They are examples of people killing each other because it was deemed ok to do it at the time. Lots of people were killed during the french revolution and many died in poverty etc before it as it was the ok thing for those holding the power at the time.

During UK history children were hanged for stealing. Starving child streals apple, could be hanged. Nothng to do with religion, everything to do with controling a large impoverished population.

People walk a fine line between being what we are (evolved apes) and what we like to think we are (civilized, compationate human beings). It does not take much (for some, not all) to fall back and start killing/persecuting other poeple based on what grounds are going at the time.

In truth we are both.

Slavery is a good example of what the people with the power decided was ok at the time. Workers were needed, africans were deemed less than europeans and so people were dragged into slavery (by other africas and europeans). An economic reason backed up by a cultural bias (and perhaps, if needed by a religious 'they are heathens justification).

I do not think saying that religion contanly changing is a bad thing. If science didnt change it would not go forward. Its impossible to comapre the two when one is critizised for changing when the the is not and the other is praised for changing. If religion did not change we would still have the inquisition and we would still be trying to convert people by force.

All thinks change because people do. Its impossible to say if the change will be good or bad (who is to say we wont have another inquisition from a major religion or another pol pot/idi amin/stalin etc).

You're kind of left concluding that powers that be will always control the masses and it's a lot easier to do if God behind them. It's possible to do without religion as you just need to create an out group, not that difficult history shows. It's the passion people seem to put in if religion is also behind them.

How many examples of suicide bombers are there where there was not a religious element?

The counter argument there being Kamakazi pilots were doing it for the emperor not any religion, I believe.

Except that the Emperor was a deity.

Although I pretty much agree with you on that one. I also believe people should be allowed to believe in what they do. Unfortunately more wars have been fought in the name of Religion than any other cause. And please don't bring up Nazism.

Scientology is not a religion, and I truly do not understand why they use a cross as their symbol, as it has nothing at all to do with Christianity.
PS- I am not a Christian

I didn't see this post. Oops, looks like I have gotten in over my head. Once you discuss religion with a FUNDAMENTALIST it's all over folks. There's no discussion, they have the word of God! So they are always right, and you unfortunately are always wrong.

I think they decided it was a more efficient way to market their particular wares.

They should ban catholisism while they're at it

Well, it's either ban it or make it compulsory. Which would you choose?

Thank God im an atiest

This is, without question, the worst instance of religious persecution Germany has ever authorized.

Give me a break. It's hardly religious by any interpretation to bully easy marks into handing over their money and fill their heads with nonsense about space alien volcano gods, and to discourage them from following medical advice. You must have drunk the KoolAid.

Oh, yeah? [no sarcasm tags noted, so apologies if it was meant as such].

Even the Scientologist believe in Christmas .

The sign on the Christmas tree says: "On the day when we can fully trust each other there will be peace on Earth" L. Ron Hubbard

They have a military?

How many politicians does it take to stop a runaway train?
Don't know; let's find out.

Munich Closes Scientologists' Day-Care Center

Authorities have shut down a child-care facility in Munich, saying it was trying to indoctrinate young minds with Scientology. The war between the California "church" and the German government continues ...

Despite also not being a big fan of religion, I think such a comment is way out of line. Many charitable organizations that take care of the down-and-out have firm roots based in Christianity, or other religions (soup kitchens, Red Cross/Crescent). i.e. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The principles at the heart of many religions is actually love and helping those in need. These values are often best attained by those who have at some point in their lives visited a church. Of course, those who follow religions tend to give them a bad name, via poor interpretation and thus teaching, but the core values of the religions themselves are often not to blame. I hope you would consider these facts when making such a blatantly offensive statement.

Tell me this, would you take a bowl of soup from such a "disease-ridden" organisation if you were for some reason out on the street without any sort of social/financial safety net? Would you starve to death for your priniciples?

Religion is specifically getting a bad name at the moment for the current activities of the Muslim world, and also the fundamentalist Christian response to that. (Not to mention again Muslim responses to simple danish cartoons). That of course is a great pity. Interesting to read that in Turkey right now they have a commission working on the re-interpretation of the old Islamic texts, and their preliminary findings are that modern-day Islam has been greatly skewed from the original meanings/teachings of Muhammed. I equate these activities in Turkey and their significance to the reformation of the Christian church, many hundreds of years ago.

I'm also laughing slightly that I'm forced to take this viewpoint, because I generally lean in the direction you're taking, Timmeh, but your black-or-white, superlative-based way of thinking tends to suggest you are no doubt an American, and I can't stand for that.

I take it you are now either with me or against me. :p

@dino_9876 I find your comments to be quite nauseating. Is that your brand of preaching? Fear? If you preach fear instead of love you should be ashamed of yourself. I will indeed find it quite interesting, going by your beliefs, what god is gonna think at the end of your life on earth. A man who spread fear of damnation, instead of a man who did his best to love others and provide help whenever possible.

I've seen a million people like you in this world, saying the exact same things, and when you boil it down, you're just trying to cling onto anything that you can derive self-worth from. perhaps a psychologist could do you (and the rest of the world) more good than falsely interpreting a 1000 page book to suit your own sense of inadequacy. You good christian soldier you.

it's because of people like you that I have no idea anymore what being a christian actually means.

All organised religion is Evil. As soon as it becomes organised then you are doing no more than the will of the leadership. Believe in God or Multi-legged-cabbage creatures if you like but don't lose sight of what organised religion is.

From Scientology through Mormons to the good old Catholic church, they all seek to repress through fear of death and restrictions of freedom and individuality.

I really like what you said here. The problem is the more vocal, therefore the most heard, '
people are usually the ones who I think don't have a good grip on what exactly they are doing but somehow get to represent the other 95%.

I find the core is the most important and hardest part to establish in oneself.
This core belief is usually not the portion that leads one to go around pontifcating but to act in creating organisations that follow your belief, or joining them.