Germany is seeking to ban Scientology

Romans banned Christianity, Arabs banned Islam etc. Who knows maybe 500 years later, scientology will be a major religion. This Ron Hubbard deserves some credit though, selling that crap as a religion requires some intelligence.

as I don't have to pay for it.


Not buying it requires even greater intelligence.

Especially someone like you who loves shopping

Ha, ha, so you know one of my hobbies passions.

A Reader Digest's article in 1948 quotes Ron L. Hubbard of saying this "If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

I just simply need to start my own religion as I can surely use a million dollars for shopping . I would call it "The Church of What's Happenin' Tomorrow"

I love meeting the muppets on the U-Bahn. You can always spot them: black shiney shoes, black trousers, white shirt (short sleeved in summer), black tie, diddy rucksack, short back and sides, and ALWAYS a name badge. One tried to start a conversation with me. I asked him if the name badge was so that he could remember who he was. I've now taken to intimidating them until they get off. Hey! It's a sport.

Happily not. Can I please keep it that way?


Fair play. They shouldn't have been stupid enough to join in the first place. The World won't miss a few nutters.


Any chance the Catholics could take a leaf out of that book?


Well, they all do that in one way or another, don't they? Look at some of the nutters we get on here.


Hey! So's mine!

It does sound disctinctly like the Catholic church doesn't it. Any chance Mr Hubbard was taking the P**s and a few muppets didn't see the joke?

I highly recommend a book entitled Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon KraKauker. It's about religious extremism with the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons)as the subject. It's a real shocking page turner. This book is so riveting 665 people were compelled to write a review on the Amazon link below.

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-...3098&sr=8-1

They´re most likely the friendly, well-mannered missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, widely known as the LDS Church or the Mormon Church ... nothing to do with Scientology

Mission to Europe

The made-in-America Mormons are making notable strides in the Old World ...

I thought that description sounded like Mormons, too.

Who are "muppets"? Scientologists, or Mormons?

Muppet = stupid or gullible person.

That's an interesting article. I don't think anyone assumed the Scientologist were also the Mormons as these are two very distinct religions. According to Krakauer's book, Mormonism is one of the fastest growing religions in the world.

And now rationalists are attempting to ban religion. Plus ça change...

Swoon!


Everytime a pent up frustrated sex starved Mormon lad gets off becasue of you, Jesus kills a kitten.

<H1 class=firstHeading>Here's a list of Scientologist: From Biocrawler.com
</H1>

• Kirstie Alley, actress
• Anne Archer, actress
• Jennifer Aspen, actress
• Jason Beghe, actor
• Catherine Bell, actress
• Karen Nelson Bell, producer, director and musician
• Karen Black, actress (later repudiated Scientology)
• Sonny Bono, artist and congressman
• William S. Burroughs, author, Beat Generation icon (later denounced Scientology)
• David Campbell, musician
• Nancy Cartwright, voiceover artist
• Kate Ceberano, actress and musician
• Erika Christensen, actress
• Keith Code, racing instructor
• Chick Corea, musician
• Tom Cruise, actor
• Dave Davies, musician
• Xavier Deluc, actor
• Jenna Elfman, actress, and her husband Bodhi, actor
• Werner Erhard, ex-Scientologist who founded est
• Michael Fairman, actor
• Beck Hansen, (Beck) musician
• Isaac Hayes, musician, actor
• Nicky Hopkins, musician
• Katie Holmes, actress, former Catholic, converted in 2005 while in a relationship with Tom Cruise
• L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology
• Mark Isham, musician
• Terry Jastrow, TV producer and director
• Jim Johnson, owner of Mr. Jim's Pizza chain
• Kimberley Kates, actress
• Jason Lee, actor and professional skateboarder
• Geoffrey Lewis, actor
• Juliette Lewis, actress
• Peggy Lipton, actress
• Courtney Love, musician
• Charles Manson, serial killer who joined Scientology in prison before starting his own cult
• Christopher Masterson, actor
• Danny Masterson, actor, older brother of Christopher Masterson
• Lisa McPherson, died controversially while in the care of the Church of Scientology
• Peter Medak, director
• Van Morrison, singer, songwriter (later repudiated Scientology)
• Floyd Mutrux, writer, director and producer
• Haywood Nelson, actor
• Judy Norton, actress and musician
• Eduardo Palomo, actor, and his wife Carina, actress and musician
• Jeff Pomerantz, actor
• David Pomeranz, musician
• Priscilla Presley, actress
• Lisa Marie Presley, daughter of Elvis
• Kelly Preston, actress and John Travolta's wife
• Leah Remini, actress
• Patrick Renna, actor
• Giovanni Ribisi, actor
• Marissa Ribisi, actress
• Michael D. Roberts, actor
• Mimi Rogers, actress
• Carl-W. R?rig, artist
• Billy Sheehan, rock bassist
• Megan Shields, physician and author
• Michelle Stafford, actress
• Sharon Stone, actress (reportedly (http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celebcrit.html#sharonstone) now a convert to Buddhism)
• Patrick Swayze, actor
• Greta Van Susteren, host of On the Record with Greta Van Susteren on FOX TV
• John Travolta, actor
• Patrick Warren, musician
• Edgar Winter, musician
• Robert Zoller, author

This list is from www.biocrawler.com See anyone you're familiar with?

All obviously muppets, hey?

Hey! I like nailing a few pussies too.

I just want to mention how thankful I am to my parents that they never had me baptized. I never did and never will pay church tax, or any leaving fees (if you do have to pay one, I wouldn't know).

And while I do not think that all religion needs to be banned (it is indeed an excuse used by too many people to start wars etc., I agree with Rilana on that), I am not a fan of Scientology because it certainly seems to go a little further in limiting their members' rights than the Catholic and Protestant churches do (who don't really limit their members at all).

Wow, what a spectacular thread. Amazing how things can get out of hand.

So actors and musicians live in a world separate from reality?

1) Most 'christian' countries do not have a church tax. That is up to the country of Germany, not the religion itself, unlike scientology, where the 'church' itself charges you money.

2) The bible is not meant to be taken literally. People that do so are fundamentalisms and I agree fundamentalism should not be condoned.

3) Religions have mostly changed according with the times. There are very few practicing Hasidic Jews in the western world and the modern interpretation of the religion is much different.

My only problem with Scientology is that it is a cult. I'd be hard pressed to call all belief systems cults. Who are you to say that people can't believe what they want, as long as they are not hurting themselves or others?

This is coming from an atheist.

Agreed, VenusInFurs. (Except I am not atheist, but I don't think I am Christian either, I just believe what I believe without labeling myself.)

Who's to say that cultist, can't practice their cults. In a real sense, what some refer to as a "cult", someone else may consider it their "religion". I believe as long as someone isn't proselytizing their "religion" or "cult" upon me then I'm ok with the world.

Where it doesn't exist, the churches expect you to both pay an annual membership and donate to both the weekly collection basket and special causes as applicable.

> 2) The bible is not meant to be taken literally. People that do so are fundamentalisms and I agree fundamentalism should not be condoned.
Sez you. Fundamentalism is nothing but religionists following their books to the letter. I have more respect for them because at least they're honest and make fewer excuses. All religious books claim their authority and all religions demand total adherence.

> 3) Religions have mostly changed according with the times.
Examples?

"There are very few practicing Hasidic Jews"
In relation to what exactly? Hasidisim itself is a relatively young branch. Kaballists are also experiencing a resurgence, and if you want to read some whacked-out shit about magic, look no further than the origins of Judaism.

This is coming from an atheist.
You don't help the cause by being so ignorant of religion and its interpretations among believers.

woof.

The problem I have with Scientology and sects such as Jehova's Witnesses is they may not be successful in convincing you that their religion is a good idea, but maybe they will convince your 10 year old daughter or son. (I used to have to avoid Jehova's Witnesses on my way home when I was in 5th and 6th grade, because they would always be standing at the Neuperlach Zentrum U-Bahn station trying to hand you their magazines... I also remember taking one or two once... but I am not sure I ever actually read them, or just took them as the easy way out.)

Actually churches normally don't levy membership fees.

Exactly. The others are bunch of cowards who can not believe and who can not deny.

This is the statement of the hour .

No, some churches "expect" a voluntary contribution of a certain percentage of your income (a is said in the bible somewhere), but you do not have to pay anything. However I can understand that if you were a member of a church (by going there every week, taking part in the community events etc) that a contribution might be a good idea considering you are also benefiting from the community and in most countries the churches do not finance themselves through taxes but through these member contributions. But it is all voluntary (usually anyway, there may be exceptions).

I believe in a lot of things that are in accordance with Christian religion, but not everything. If I had to label myself I would choose Christian, but maybe other Christians would not agree with it and tell me "no you cannot be Christian." So I just don't do it (label myself).

Churches certainly do not 'expect' a proportion of your income. The days of the tithe are long gone (apart from in Germany and Austria) and nowadays they are grateful if there's enough in the plate to pay the heating bill in winter.

In Garibaldi's absence I thought I'd be nettlesome to you . I will now go and repent for my sin before the wrath of god strikes me .

Haha, well I gotta admit, without an explanation that sentence does sound a bit strange. (Might even still sound strange to some, but that's ok. )

I'm not your sin. But, I could be persuaded.

Are you saying you could be persuaded to commit the oldest "sin" in the newest kind of ways ?

Shame isn't it.

I start shaking when I go in churches as the thought of all the money they have stolen off people over the centuries fills me with rage. Sadly they can be some of the most beautiful buildings but funded through such immoral ways.

I don't get angry over anything that any religion has done in the past, just as I do not get angry at Italians for invading britian, Normans for invading britian and so on. I was not there at the time.

Organised religion is organised by people, the Diety in question did not write an organisation chart complete with process flows, business processes etc (in the begining I guess neither did the founders :-)

People follow the religions, people read the religious books and people commit the crimes against humanity. People have used religion (and political ideology/power) to control and suppress other people for centuries.

The egyptians did it over 4000 years ago, the Romans did it 2000 years ago. This is not a new thing.

Where you have belief you will always get people who will use this for their own ends. Be that Constantine, Bin Laden (English first word, German second word, nice shop) Henry 8th or Stalin. All used religious/political ideology for their own ends. All where people.

However there are are religions from which people do not seem to go around attacking others. Buddhists do not (as far as I know) go around attacking people or demanding money.

Some people will always look for what is behind life, why are we here etc.

Some people find this in religion, some in political ideology, some in nationalisn and some decide there is nothing. Some of these end up killing/persuciting other in the name of what they believe (either because they actualy believe it or they are just using as a vehicle to further their own goals).

People from the above groups above have commited such crimes (and we still do). If we had no religion there would always be something to make us turn on each other (politcical, nationalism etc). There will also be people who will use this to get people scared, angry or concerned and then use this to push us into doing things that many years down the line people will think of as barbaric.

While of course, they are living in a world where it still happens, there is just a different reason.

Scientology are just the next in a line of groups that maybe or not be religious but seek to either control people and/or generate income from them. With control, influence and money comes the ability to influence politics (via lobbying, donations etc).

People walk into these places, they are not converted at gunpoint. It could be said they are weak, lacking something (purpose, common sence etc) or just easily led. It doesn't really matter once they are in.

We kill, we commit the genocide, we persecute. We do it in the name of various causes and we always will.

On the flip side however, we also provide aid, try to be good to each other and in general the world is not such a bad place to live.

The same reasons for all the killing are also used to help others. Most religions have a base of not commiting crimes against others (before they get hijacked by someone intent on their own goals).

The reason that these groups can do both is that they are made up of people. Humans are capable of both the most disgusting crimes and also of the being most selfless.

All can however be led, swayed and convinced that what they are doing is right for what ever reason. There will always be someone there to provide us with the answers we seek. Sometimes the person will be well meaning, sometimes they will not. Sometimes a well meaning group will be taken over and used to oppress (stalin for example)

This will not change anytime soon. We will be killing each and looking for reasons to justify it for a long time (in general that is, not all people do this, just as not all people from said groups commit the crimes the group perpetrate).

No offence mate but you clearly believe exactly what you want to. Jesus was all about the shepherd GUIDING the flock , not kicking the shit out of them when they stood out of line , he forgave the prostitute MAry Magdalene , Zacheus and others. Forgiveness is a major part of Christianity regardless.

Sweetheart. I could commit ANY sin you want in any way you want. You've just got to ask.

I refer the gentleman to my previous remark on page 5:

Lovely sentiments.

woof.

Your mere presence has nothing to do with hatred or peace - it only engenders disgust.


...and here we have the rancid thoughts of the modern Irish Catholic. Choice, isn't it?

Firstly if that was true how do you marry that to the many instances of forgiveness in the Bible?

Secondly this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_10:34

Totally wasted on you I know:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire

sat·ire [img]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif[/img] [img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/img][img]http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif[/img] /ˈsæt[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/img]aɪ^ər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sat-ahy^uh[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/img]r] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc. 2.a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule. 3.a literary genre comprising such compositions. [Origin: 1500–10; < L satira, var. of satura medley, perh. fem. deriv. of satur sated (see saturate)[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/img]]

Any chance of an explanation for this comment? As you well know, I am Christian and indeed Catholic the same as Maryposes..

Indeed, the pastor of our church in London sometimes doesn't even get her salary because there just isn't any money...and she's a single parent. The church building is pretty, a small Christopher Wren church, however it's falling apart and there's hardly ever enough cash to fix everything.

Scientology is a cult, and its members are brainwashed moonies. A close family member of mine had first hand experience of Scientology's recruiting efforts; it was extremely unpleasant and creepy (for all of us, though only one of us was targeted), totally overbearing and inappropriate, and took multiple threats of legal action to get it to stop.

Which is worse?: Satirical Catholic Christianity, Christianity or your Manichean gibberish

Do you think they'd sell it? Probably make a really good and novel apartment and just think of the property prices in London at the moment? You know it makes sense.

*I* don't. I don't believe in that bullshit. It's your job to explain away the contradiction. If JC was supposed to be so loving and forgiving, how the hell do you explain those lines? And while you're at it, how about explaining JC's differing genealogies in Matthew (1:1-17) and Luke (3:23-38)? Matt claims 29 generations, Luke 42, and together they only name the same people three times... and all three in a different order. One of them is not spewing out Mary's lineage: no one gave a shit about women's histories and in both books it clearly states "son of" over and over again, all the way down to Joseph.

And if you do manage to figure this one out, you then have to explain how either lineage means diddly considering that Joseph never schtupped Mary (at least not before JC was born), so whether or not Joseph's lineage goes back to Abraham or Seth doesn't really matter because JC wasn't Joey's kid.

None of this is any more or less cuckoo than the shit Hubbard wrote in his crappy science fiction space opera, except that there are more contradictions and a lot more blood. Also, your supreme being is a whole fuckload more evil than Hubbard's.

woof.

Typical BD.

Did not read the Bible correctly.

Read it again (see below), here it is and you see that Matthew gives it from Abraham onwards, and Luke from Adam onwards.
The names of only more than 3 are common ? Are you able to read patiently? Read again and tell me there are only 3 names in common. (see below ).
Different oder is because one starts from adam and goes forward and one starts from Jesus and then backwards...No issue...

Please read before you bark.

-----------------------------------

Luke 3:23-38 (New International Version)

23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,
the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
the son of Salmon,[a] the son of Nahshon,
33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[b]
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

and

Matthew 1:1-17 (New International Version)

Matthew 1
The Genealogy of Jesus
1A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[a] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.[b]

-------------------------------------

PS: I have no time for those who SPEW hatred without really reading/researching stuff.

meow.