Germany is seeking to ban Scientology

AP: Germany seeking to ban Scientology -


Other Scientology threads are `closed`, so I started a new one with this news today.

See closed threads:

• The Church of Scientology, General info and opinions
• Church of Scientology in Germany
• Scientology temple opens in Berlin, Church's German HQ opened Saturday 13.Jan.2007

First they wanted to ban Scientology, and I had nothing to say.
Then they wanted to ban Cathol...

Good call.. they should ban Christianity while they're at it..

Cool photo. Yep, I agree with Hutcho but would extend it to all religions. They are a disease to humanity.

First they came for the Communists, and I said "He's over there next door, go get him, filthy commies!"

From the article:


Anybody know how Scientology seedk to limit these rights? I don't know anything about Scientology at all.

Contact us them at the centre in Munich Schwabing.

from what I recall, the german authorities are concerned that the rights of vulnerable (young) individuals are infringed by scientology ie that such people would be manipulated by the group. in legal terms, that would probably be covered by the jugendschutzgesetz in different laender but also by the european convention of human rights, i think article 8, 'right to private life'

What, like being 'confirmed' at 12 or so?

I kid, I kid.

Note: Scientology is not a recognised as a church in Germany.
It operates as an Eingetragene Verein.

...and yes Monkstown, that is the whole point of the matter. Any e.V. can be periodically checked and its statutes looked at. Scientology is not and should not be recognised as a church.

What about the Mormons – the garden of Eden was in Missouri – wtf. It is possible the next president could be one. You thought George Bush was bad - wait till this jackass wacko gets in.

We're also talking about men walking on water and virgins having babies!

The real fear of the government is Scientology could even be more oppressive than the government itself.

What about the bloody Catholics who occasionally lurk outside my son's kindergarten with beads and trinkets and promises full of lies? When are they going to stop them? I vented my fury at the kindergarten and I believe that the god-botherers have been asked not to do it outside the door anymore.

I'm certain that if they could hook the Kirchensteuer up to it, then it'd be fine and dandy.

"The church tax is historically rooted in the pre-Christian Germanic custom where the chief of the tribe was directly responsible for the maintenance of priests and religious cults." A-effen-men.

"In particular, some smaller communities (e.g. the Jewish Community of Berlin) choose to collect taxes themselves to save collection fees the government would charge otherwise."

No reinforcement of traditional German sterotypes here! </a sarcasm>

If nobody has already mentioned it, I think that the thing that really gutted scientology in germany was that because the government knocked them back as a religion, they (scientology) failed to get the associated tax priveleges ie like not having to pay it.

Lord Xenu will not be pleased...

Absolutely. And they get them in the kindergartens. That really should be considered child abuse but we're still a long way off a society that realises what these evil organisations do to the minds of our young.

Do you blame them for what happened to your mind?

No. I blame them for what happened to yours.

I think this is going to be a stretch, religious people of all denominations routinely ignore or make excuses for the very real child abuse (molestation) that happens in their fold.

and while you're at it what about the Jews... oh they've tried that one here before...

This is an argument that Scientology is very fond of playing so expect to see it more often in the future maybe...

Disclaimer: I'm neither a scientologist nor a scientist...

What evidence do you have that child abuse is less prevalent in purely secular society?

I didn't comment on whether it is more prevalent, I commented on the fact that I noticed religious people are more likely to make excuses for it... like for instance, what you just did.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/excuse

Main Entry: ¹ex·cuse [img]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/img] Pronunciation: \ik-ˈskyüz, imperatively often ˈskyüz\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): ex·cused; ex·cus·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French escuser, excuser, from Latin excusare, from ex- + causa cause, explanation Date: 13th century 1 a: to make apology for b: to try to remove blame from2: to forgive entirely or disregard as of trivial import : regard as excusable <graciously excused his tardiness>3 a: to grant exemption or release to <was excused from jury duty> b: to allow to leave <excused the class>4: to serve as excuse for : justify <nothing can excuse such neglect>— ex·cus·able [img]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/img] \ik-ˈskyü-zÉ™-bÉ™l\ adjective — ex·cus·able·ness noun — ex·cus·ably [img]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/img] \-blÄ“\ adverb — ex·cus·er noun

Hope this helps. Keep working on your English , one day you'll nail it.

You need a society where religion and education are separated. It will take time but hopefully it will happen in my lifetime.

Give me a child till they and 7 and I'll show you the man is so true. We should not be indoctronating our children with religion at such a young age as they do tend to belive in father christmas and other such fantasty but somehow God is a hard thing for some to let go of.

Ok from your definition:

"to forgive entirely or disregard as of trivial import"


If I had said "try change the subject or kill the messenger" would that be more acceptable to you?

P.S... this isn’t really the point of this thread, so let’s not hijack it. My point was mainly to point out to the above poster that getting people to realize that there is psychological damage being done to children will be extremely difficult to do when they are reticent to acknowledge the very real physical and emotional damage done.

Christians will always be there.
No, not because they are deluded, but because one cannot deny what one has experienced.

Those that bash Christianity will also be there always.
Because their eyes are not able to see the Truth. ( Just like you claim that Christians are blind to see the facts ).

Seperation of Church and <whatever you want to put here> is actually something I agree with.

God does not need these links to work out His plan.
On the contrary, God's people must be known by their good acts, instead of the stipud and sinful ones.

If the church does what it says, There will be a different world. But then we also would not need Christ.
Being unable to do what the Law says is exactly why we need Him.

Truth & Peace.

@ thefirelane

You're now saying I consider child abuse to be "of trivial import" ? Beautiful , any evidence to back that one up?

The point stands that there is no evidence to suggest that child abuse is more or less prevalent regardless of religion , but if you have any then kindly bring it forward.

EDIT: On your Post-script - I don't think ANYONE , not even the Church , believes that child abuse is not catastrophic for children... but again if you have evidence that refutes this then bring it forward... uh well after a simple search...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse

According to a recent UNICEF report on child well-being[3] the United States and the United Kingdom ranked lowest among rich nations with respect to the well being of their children. This study also found that child neglect and child abuse are far more common in single-parent families than in families where both parents are present.

Well now , secularists won't really love that one now will they?

badum tisch !!

Was waiting for our resident Bible basher to turn up

I turned up, not to cause hatered, but to bring peace!

No, again, that isn’t what I’m saying. I’m saying you think that abuse within the Catholic church is of trivial importance, largely because you say it isn’t worse for the church than society at large.

But of course, that isn’t the real issue: the real issue with the Catholic church specifically is how all the higher ups covered it up and continued to look the other way, and how the members ignored it as well. Again, that was my real point: not that the issue was more prevalent, but that it was ignored by so many, and actively covered up by so many in charge.

Here’s a good example: Cardinal Bernard Law. The guy covered up cases, moved priests around to let them pray on more children, so the church wouldn’t loose face. And now where is he now? Sitting comfortably in the Vatican, immune from all charges, instead of in jail, where anyone in a secular position of authority who did the same thing would be.

Where’s the moral outrage? Nowhere, that was my point.

@ thefirelane

Thanks for answering my question - I'm not saying it's trivial at all - I'm saying the problem is THE SAME for society at large... why does that equate to "trivial" for you?

I agree that it was covered up within the Church - but I also think it is covered up within society - for largely the same reason - people would rather not be confronted with the awfulness of the truth.

There have been many cases of secular organisations... are they in jail as you claim ... well here's a Eureka for you ... fuck no...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2933503.ece

EDIT : There isnt any moral outrage because there can't be - secular society CANNOT find a way to force secular parents to look after their children - as a result a large percentage do not...

When people want the freedom to fuck around , get drunk and ignore their kids , without being scolded for it , you're never going to have a satisfactory solution to this problem.

Sounds like every religion that ever existed, if you ask me.

Chap, what does single parenting and secularism have to do with each other?

Well, I don't know aboput the UK, but the US is probably the most religious that it's ever been in its entire existence. I think that child neglect and the growing reliosity in the US is not a coincidence.

Isnt the Catholic church always bitchin about single parents , importance of having stable nuclear relationships for kids??? Did you miss that one or were u only interested in the child fiddler priest reports?

They also bitch on about many issues including kiddie fiddling, doesn't stop them from doing it tho does it? It's a bit of a leap to claim that all single parents are secular...think there are no Catholic single parents?

Per your article, yup, scumbags watching each other's back is par for the course in humanity. However, you might note that by being removed from the police force, he’s already suffered a greater punishment than Law. As for the rest, let’s see how this plays out, as it is an ongoing (and by the article’s date at least) recent investigation.

I’ll still stand by my claim however: that people are much more accepting of a religious body’s moral failings than they are of secular institutions and people.


Sure, and when studies come out showing children of same-sex parents perform better than average they also champion tha… oh, wait.

Of course. Same first sentence is true of any society.


You think losing your job is worse than prison for a child sex offender???

I'd actually be really interested/impressed with any such reports on same-sex couples' kids...

No, perhaps “Law� wasn’t clear… but I mean the officer lost his job, Cardinal Law got to stay on (would his position now be considered a “promotion�?) Just a snide comment I couldn’t help but insert.

Like I say, let’s see how it plays out. It could very well be that they get off due to lack of evidence… but that’s how court systems are set up due to the failings of humanity, and it can’t be any other way… sometimes guilty people will get away, and we accept this, so innocent people aren’t locked up.

However, that is much different than the secretive unaccountable process that was used to wisk away Law as before any charges could be brought.


I’ll look into it more thoroughly later tonight. Google brings up some info However, common sense says same sex couple’s children will always do above average compared to other children… why? Self Selection. In other words, there aren’t terribly many accidental homosexual pregnancies So couples which adopt tend to be older, wealthier, and in a stable relationship. Those are typically the factors which prescribe the success of a child in life, and when compared with similar peers, these children do average for their group, which is above average for the whole.

Of course, this also means delaying the age at which one first has a child also contributes to the wellbeing of that child, and I think the church’s position on birth control is well known… so I don’t think this will convince anyone.

@thefirelane

Sorry for constantly correcting you on your poor observational skills but the Catholic Church only prohibits artificial birth control , natural methods are fine.

Mainly because the natural methods don't work...

A little bit of Monty Python seems appropriate here:

"Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate."

I think we should ban all religions...the world would be safer and much more happy