American living in France wants to become German

Hi everyone,
This is my first post on this forum. My name is Erica, and I am originally from Chicago, Illinois. I am currently in France as a language assistant, and I am loving it here so much that I am looking for ways to stay in Europe permanently. I think that I am eligible for German citizenship...

My grandparents were German-Jewish. My grandma was from Berlin, and able to escape before being put in a camp. We cannot find any of her papers, because we believe that they were taken from her when she left Germany. My grandpa, on the other hand, did not get to leave his village before being taken to a camp. He was there for one year then released. After that, he went to Canada to work and eventually to the States, where he got married to my grandmother. They had my mom, and after that their naturalization papers came through. So, my mom was technically born to two German citizens abroad, which, from what I understand, also makes her German, and as such, makes me a candidate for German citizenship as well. To prove my right to German citizenship, I had my mom send me copies of the following papers:

1) My grandpa's birth cert
2) Her birth cert (with her parents names on it to prove the connection)
3) My birth cert
4) My grandpa's arrest papers
5) My grandpa's release papers
6) Both of my grandparent's naturalization papers (which say that they are both German)
7) My grandpa's Canadian working papers (which also state that he did not have a German passport)
8) My grandpa's death cert

I think I have more than enough paperwork to get the citizenship; but the problem is that I am currently in France as a language assistant, and am not going to the States until next June. I want to get the process going ASAP, so should I just take a trip to Germany to give them my papers? Also, which office would I go to and in what city? I was thinking maybe of going to one of the American consulates in Germany, but I don't know if that would be the right place to go.

Thanks to anyone who has an idea of what I should do!!

so you want to give up your US citizenship - why not just apply for a residency permit?

Your mother was born in the United States, right? She holds a US Passport? She is a US Citizen? I don't see where you have any legitimate claim to become a German resident based on any of that. Of course, you can try. The worst they'll say is "no". For you, I am nearly certain that you will have to go through the process the same way that any other US citizen would have to go through to become a German citizen. Good luck.

Actually, I would like to have both passports...maybe I did not make that clear in my original post.

Yes, she has an American passport, but the thing that makes me think I could be German is that her parents were NOT American when they had her; they were still German. Does that not make her German as well? Perhaps I am missing something.

As a US Citizen, you have to be born with both citizenships to be eligible for both. At the age of 18 (or is it 21 or did they change it altogether?) you would have to make a choice which one you want to keep.

Make no mistake about it, you are a US citizen. If you want to become a citizen of any other country, you have to give up your US citizenship and never be able to get it back.

My daughter, for example, was born IN Germany with an American father (servicemember on official orders) and a German mother. She holds dual citizenship.

Your mother was born in the US to 2 Germans that were there for no "official" reason. They lived there, so your mother is automatically a US citizen.

Hey Erica. I just recently lived in Chicago, but traded it in for a town about 1/60th the size. Nice change of pace.

I don't know if you want to give up your US citizenship entirely. Residency permits aren't extremely difficult to come by (my temporary inability excluded). Either way, quadruple check what you need as far as paperwork goes. I've made four trips to the residency office in my small town thinking I had everything each time. I still don't.

Good luck.

Why should you automatically gain that right over say someone who is working towards citizenship and has made tax and social contributions for over say 5 years? You are making a claim based on your one side of family it would appear who not even German anymore so to be speak, you are an US citizen, your parents are US citizens.

You have to earn German citizenship like the rest who want it.

Not true, according to the State Department website:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html




Basically, as long as you don't intend to give up your US citizenship, and you don't do anything on the list of really-bad-things (see the second link), it is possible to get dual citizenship after birth (as far as the US is concerned - the second country would have to allow it as well, of course)

Now, I've not done it myself, but that's my understanding of the situation.

jozhik

@eriquita0115: read this thread:

Dual citizenship - American / German

"HazelStone" describes circumstances (page 3, post 54) that I believe may be similar to yours.

Martina

That's exactly the point people are trying to make here - the U.S. allows dual citizenship, Germany does not unless aquired at birth. German citizens who emigrate to the U.S. may, under certain circumstances, keep their German citizenship and also apply for U.S. citizenship, but it doesn't work the other way around.

My kids have dual German/Canadian citizenship because they were born to a German father and a Canadian mother. I, however, would have to give up my Canadian citizenship if I wanted to get a German passport.

Hi, "bmessmann", (others won't understand this but we know each other from somewhere else)

you're right, Germany doesn't accept dual citizenship unless acquired at birth, but what Erika is trying to prove is that at her birth she would theoretically haven been able to have dual citizenship if her grandparents had applied for it for her parents who in turn would have had to apply for it for her.

Making sense?

I was born in 1970, as an American citizen, but then in 1978 acquired German citizenship retroactively *in addition to* my American citizenship, because the law was changed at that point so that mothers can pass their citizenship down, too. (Previously babies born in Germany were automatically assigned their father's citizenship).

Martina

P.S. as a case in point see HazelStone (link in Post #10) who now holds dual citizenship.

I am no expert but I would say you already have German citizenship and therefor only need to have a passport issued.
You say your grandparents were German when your mother was born. Therefor your mother is German by birth, with dual citizenship.
Your mother is German and born before 2000, that makes you a German, also with dual citizenship.
As I said, I mightbe wrong, but it looks really simple and straight-forward to me.

You are both right. But the fact remains that the OPs mother was born a US citizen (holds a US passport) and her father (though she hasn't said anything about him) is also a US citizen (I assume). Grandparents do not pass citizenship down 2 generations unless they actually make the attempt to do so. And I'm just guessing here, but since they both got out of Germany during some pretty hard times with the goal of getting US citizenship, they probably didn't make an effort to ensure citizenship was passed along. Don't quote me here, but US law states that any child born on US soil by parents residing in the US is a US citizen by birth. Therefore, her mother, by default, was/is a US citizen, ending the line of German citizenship.

Try the German embassy in Paris ...

I/my ancestors was/were denationalized by the National Socialists. Can I get my German citizenship back?

Hi Martina Yep, makes total sense - I didn't take that into account because it didn't sound like she would be eligible, but she just might be after all.

BTW, if they had not already been stripped of their German citizenship by 1942, your grandparents would have lost it by then. In 1942, all Jews who had not previously been specifically and individually stripped of their German citizenship were denationalized. The only catch is if they were naturalized by another country prior to losing their German citizenship, you cannot claim German citizenship on that particular basis. If you get German citizenship based upon your grandparents being denationalized for political reasons, of course you can keep your US citizenship.

I would suggest applying on these grounds first since you have so much documentation, although I wouldn't show them a US naturalization certificate for your grandparents that states they were German citizens when they applied for US citizenship. I don't know why the naturalization papers would show that since they were stateless when leaving Germany.

Hello German Embassy in Paris, I'm an American who would like German citizenship so I can carry on living in France.

This is the way I was going to go about trying to get it. Clearly, both of my grandparents ended up stateless, since my grandma had to give up her papers when she left Berlin (which is why we don't have her papers), and my grandpa was stateless based on the grounds that he said he did not have a German passport when he landed in Canada.

Do you guys think that this is the best way to approach this?

Thanks everyone for your insight!!

Hahaha very nice. I am guessing I should not go to Paris, then. Where should I go?

yes, this poster's situation is just like mine - which makes me think that I will indeed be able to get it. Thanks for the link

Do you speak German?
How long have you lived in Germany?
What's your address in Germany?
What's your job in Germany?
Why do you want German Citizenship?

Yes, this is the way you should do it- your situation is different from Hazel Stone's because her grandparents were not denationalized by the Nazis. It is provided for in the German Basic Law, and the thinking is that the children and grandchildren of those who lost their citizenship should be able to get German citizenship since you would have been born German citizens. AFAIK, your mother could not have been born a German citizen because her parents were not German citizens, thus you should apply under the provisions affecting those who were stripped of German citizenship for political reasons. It was designed for those in similar situations to your own.

EDIT: contact the German Embassy in Paris and ask them, but I believe that you can apply through them. Ask them, however, how they will handle the original documentation that you have. The agency that will review your application has to check through archives that are in Germany for your grandparents' names and other information they have.

You are missing the point. I want to stay in Europe and work (and not necessarily in France either), and I want to learn more about and rediscover my European roots. I also want to learn the language of my grandparents, German. Is that a problem?

Why would I give a random person on the internet my address anywhere, anyway?

Cheers for the useful info! That is what I shall do next!

You will probably be interviewed in person at the German Embassy in Paris, but they will tell you what to do if you contact them.

I just have a problem with this back door approach. You say rediscovering your European roots but if you were so interested in that then surely with having German grandparents you would of come to Germany rather than France.

There are probably thousands of more worthy people of an EU citizenship than yourself who have to do 8 years of commitment for their cause, I think it's lousy that an adult could get German citizenship without even speaking the language.

If it's what you want and can get it, then good for you I suppose.

If there had been an opportunity to go to Germany instead, I would have. But you have to go with the chances you have, so here I am in France. When the majority of your family is killed by the nazis, then we can talk.

Do you really need citizenship? I've got a lifetime residence/work permit in Germany - not that I'll use it.

If possible, I would like to have the citizenship - just to get the chance to go live in Germany and learn the language for a year or two is motivation enough for me to want it.

These comments are inaccurate- there is no "backdoor approach" to recompense for the crimes of the Nazis. Her grandparents never should have lost their citizenship in the first place.

There are thousands of other people who have been naturalized in this legal manner; not all are German Jews or their descendants- some are descended from German Communists who were also denationalized. I see no reason why the OP is any less worthy than anyone else who has gotten German citizenship without being resident in Germany for 8 years (including those married to Germans who qualify after only 3).

Can I just remind you that technically, Alsace was part of Germany? Your statement is not completely accurate...there is German influence all over the East of France!! Even in my town, there are lots of Germans and non-native German speakers.

I don't want to make too many assumptions about your statement, but Germans are great people and most of those living in today's age are not accountable for what happened in the past. I find it strange that you say the above but are readily willing to apply for German citizenship, which leads me to believe that it is only to suit your current needs. tbh I don't actually know what relevance your statement has got to do with my disagreement with your application for citizenship, it's an opinion I'm entitled to and not one I base solely on Jewish people or those with Jewish ancestors, the Jewish or non Jewish aspect is totally irrelevant to me, perhaps I am a little insensitive but that subject never crossed my mind.

If the title of your post was 'American living in Germany wants to become German' I wouldn't of bat an eyelid, however for me this would gave more credabilty to your application for citizenship having immersed yourself in German culture, life and language etc and thinking I want a bigger part of my roots.

General Information on German citizenship - FAQs

Question 1
I have received dual citizenship by birth and have not acquired any other citizenship voluntarily since my birth. Do I have to choose between the two citizenships at the age of 18?

German law, in general, does not oblige you to choose between the two citizenships at the age of 18.

Question 2
How do I obtain German citizenship ?

- by birth to a German parent
Laws regarding citizenship have been changed several times over the last decades. Whether or not a person has acquired German citizenship may therefore depend on the person's date of birth:

If you were born before January 1, 1975:

- If your parents were married at the time of your birth you acquired German citizenship if your father was German; you did not acquire German citizenship if only your mother was German (unless you would otherwise have been stateless).
- If your parents were not married at the time of your birth you acquired German citizenship if your mother was German; you did not acquire German citizenship if only your father was German.

If you were born on or after January 1, 1975:

If your parents were married at the time of your birth you acquired German citizenship if at least one parent was German.
If your parents were not married at the time of your birth you acquired German citizenship if your mother was German; you did not acquire German citizenship if only your father was German. However: a person born out of wedlock on or after July 1, 1993 can acquire German citizenship if only the father is German and if the father acknowledges paternity.

-by birth in Germany
If you were born after December 31, 1999 to foreign parents in Germany.
One of the parents must have been a legal resident in Germany for at least eight years at the time of your birth.
In addition, at least one parent must have an unlimited residence permit ("unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis") or a residence entitlement ("Aufenthaltsberechtigung") at the time of your birth
If you obtain another citizenship by birth, you have to give up one citizenship between ages 18 and 23.

Please note:
Most US military personnel are in Germany for a period considerably shorter than 8 years; they neither have residence permits nor entitlements because of bilateral agreements.
In most cases therefore children born to US military personnel do not have the right to German citizenship (unless they had a German parent at the time of their birth)

- by adoption
If you were adopted by at least one German citizen on or after January 1, 1977, you are a German citizen. If the adoption happened outside Germany, it has to meet certain requirements (please call the competent German Mission in the US for further information).

- by naturalization
Naturalizations of people with permanent residence outside Germany are rare. Applicants have to meet a host of requirements; you typically have to give up your present citizenship(s) in order to become a German citizen, fluency in the German language is another precondition - for more information, contact the competent German Mission in the US.

I sent you a PM, good luck!

And guess what? If you happen to find out you were born a dual, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the opportunities that might afford you. When I found out I was a dual, I began taking German language classes and went to visit the country. But if you just want to take advantage of the fact that with an E.U. citizenship, you can live and work more easily abroad, there isn't anything morally wrong with that. I'm guessing that a lot of Germans would apply for a U.S. passport if they found out that they were duals, even if they had no intention of ever living there or embracing American culture. It seems as if the girl who started this topic has an interest in living and working in Europe, and I hope this works out for her. I am always amazed at how rude people can be on this board. And how many people seem to think they know exactly what they are talking about but don't have a clue (you DON'T have to give up your U.S. citizenship if you were born a dual, for example) If you don't have anything useful to say, keep it to yourself.

And thank you to everyone who does contribute valuable information to the people who ask questions on this board. While I am sometimes frustrated at the comments of a few, for the most part people are civil and very helpful, and that is much appreciated.

Finally! A mature and informative post! Thank you HazelStone.

Oh yeah, I am sure most people who put in 8 years of "commitment" are more worthy than anyone who is German by birth (which the OP would be, irrelevant of her German skills). How exactly do you become worthy of a citizenship you acquire by birth? Maybe we should set up tests people have to pass when they turn 18 years old, else they lose their citizenship. Yes, some people acquire citizenship by birth (lazy bastards that they are), others have to "work" for it. What's your point?


Agreed. I do not see anything wrong with embracing a right you have. I can use my German citizenship to work and live in other European countries too, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Sure, some people may be envious of someone who has the opportunity to have dual citizenship based on birth, but that does not make it morally wrong for that person to take advantage of their dual citizenship. So what if it is convenient for the OP, of course it is. Just like it is convenient for der_Engländer that his UK citizenship allows him to live in Germany and my German citizenship allows me to live in Spain without any paperwork.

Mariposa, good post. I agree 100%.

I looked into something similar a few years back – although it was apparently baseless and would therefore disappoint der_Englander if I got through... although I do speak English.

My “back door� approach hit a dead end when I found out my claim on UK citizenship died when Canada joined Newfoundland. Damn that Joey! But you can bet that if it didn’t, I would have British Passport and milk it to save money on fees and time in front of the “Ämter� and “functionnaires� each time I try to pay taxes in another city or country.

Eriquita - did it work out?

Of course you can obtain your German nationality provided certain things.
When you were born is very important. If your German ancestry comes from your father or the mother's side too. Until 1973 only fathers (grandparents, great-grandparents) could transmit the German nationality. After 1973 (I don't recall now the exact date) mothers were able to transmit the German nationality as well. It's important that for example at the time of your father's birth your grandfather had a German passport. Therefore your father acquired the German nationality and could pass it on to his children. It's important to show the link between the generations as German ancestry is transmitted by blood (iu sanguinis). This is basically my case where my father and I were born abroad but we are German as my grandad was German. My grandma was German too but as father was born in 1940 only grandad could transmit the German nationality. I hope this helps. Tschüss.