Where to study an MBA degree in Germany

I am thinking of doing an MBA. There are so many schools out there it is hard to make a decision.

Is it worth paying mega-bucks to go to one of the top schools or can be satisfied with maybe doing something like Open University or FOM München where i can study and work at the same time?

Any advice would be great.

OG

Related topics:

MBA courses at the Euro Business Uni in Munich

GMAT - MBA Preparation in Munich

Well I have heard the OU is generally very good, and it does make it possible to work and study.

Yes it is worth paying mega-bucks, your return on investment will be much higher even with a larger up-front cost. Business Week will be posting new ranking for US and interntional schools tomorrow.

There some thoughts and info on this issue here: Graduate level courses offered in English, Economics, accounting, business, etc.

@ JML... that was a great post/novel... bloody helpful, cheers.

yep read in detail and checked out some of the links posted in response.

The problem i find is that most of the info available about pros and cons of MBA is still very US oriented. I have been trying to figure out what is best for me in a European/rest of world scenario, since it rather unlikely that i will end up in the US (although...)

As you rightly say the best returns seem to be from the top 5 schools but then only if you manage to get recruited by a US company and want to spend the next 5-10 years there. Now, I have nothing against this per se but that would mean many life decisions that i am not sure i am ready to make.

Here's the thought process I went through...

1) will it really help you get further than you are now
2) depends what you studies first time around
3) could you get your company to sponsor you (if they think it's worth you doing it, it shows it will bring you added value)
4) Do you really want to study almost every night for 3 years when you could be playing rugby and drinking with TT?!

@JB: So what did you decide?

@OG: It doesn't need to be a US-based company, just an international one that regularly recruits MBAs. They will know the financial commitment you make and pay accordingly.

You can find this kind of info out from the B-Schools themselves - many list recruiters on their websites.

ROI is always a tricky thing to work out. According to Forbes (see website) INSEAD has the best ROI based on change in salary. But I dunno - word is that lots of consultancies send people to INSEAD for a 'cheap and quick' MBA as part of their promotional system. Which makes lots of the results void. There is also a lot less time to find a job due to the length of the course.

With my ear to the ground I hear that employers think that a Euro MBA is best for US students who want to get some international experience - i.e. an active career choice. Europeans that stay in Europe for their MBA are presumed not to have been able to get into a US school.

Talk to Parrothead..he went through the Duke MBA Program..he should be able to help you out..

re change in salary: all the numbers qouted don't seem that high to be frank and honest. A company would have to offer way above average for it to make good financial sense for me if i had to finance myself (my current employer does not sponsor MBAs being a good bavarian company)

rr not good enough for US if you study in Europe, yes with a few notable exceptions, but in general you are probably right.

still lots to think about.

Well the question must be 'what do you want to go for?'
Most people, when it really boils down to it want to increase their salary - let's face very few people study business and finance because they find it inherently fascinating.

If you are at a stage in your career where you are paid so much that you would take a drop in salary then:
(i) it doesn't sound like it would be much use to you. Try an EMBA or don't bother
(ii) you need to want to make a certain kind of career move to justify it - from well paid techy to management etc.
(iii) stop whining and pay for it out of your loose change

ok. understand what you mean.

my main reason for wanting to study an MBA is for the challenge, not for future financial gain, which i see as at best to be minimal. I have done well at my company so far and have no desire really to work for another. I have a vision of where i want to be within 10 years and an MBA will certainly help.

I already studies an international business course in which i have two degrees. I would like to study an MBA with a "schwerpunk" in Finance, since i have a finance background.

My original plan post graduating was to qualify with CIMA but this quali is next to useless here in Germany so didn't follow through. I am now at the age where I have to act upon my desire for further academic studies or ditch it forever.

@ satman (and graham) that is the point I was making. Ok I am biased, I have a 4 year degree, a (dropped-out) year of chartered accountancy, and a Masters (recognised as MBA) behind me so am sick of study.

And when I came to Germany my "MBA" got me into Siemens at the same pay grade as a german university graduate... who didn't have to pay for a masters with no state funding, no grant and no parental support /state financing system, still paying off the original BSc student debts on the side.

Which is why I know you have to be really sure of several things:
1) do you have the money (not working for at least a year, losing (or still having to pay for) flat, travel if studying abroad, taking on debt for study fees and living.. all lost savings which could be going towards pension, house, Porsche, Playboy bunnies, etc.)
2) Do you really want to study again (especially with OU you have to be really sure, my chartered accoutnacy was in my spare time and in intensive courses.. I felt like I had no life at all, constant stress.. but to be fair I did the exams in 6 months and you normally take 12). Either way, 2 more years of it would have killed me.
3) Is it really bringing you that much added value? My Masters felt like I was paying for a list of contacts, I learn far more in my job. I think working for a multinational gives you more value and opportunites, as they train you and support you if you want to change careers within the company. You can also do management courses which are like MBA's, but moulded to your company and with a network of colleagues.

But here I'm biased too, as I studied Business to start with so an MBA is an adder. If you studied sciences or engineering or something, I'm sure it would help a lot more.

Try countrygirl too, she did the Cranfield MBA for 2 years.

I was thinking of Oxford (cos of their one year deal) if i can get in of course. I can take a sabatical from my company for 6 months where i still get base pay. all holiday money, chritsmas money, bonus, overtime hours and holiday get rolled up into the six months salary that you are off. So that shortens the time with no money.

but not the fees for the course and living... and beers... Oxford is not cheap! But very nice. What about your flat?!

Oh forget it, I am being nosy to avoid work... up to you!

If you can in (that's a big IF)...then go for it...It'll be worth it's weight in gold.

very big IF.

but I have the right CV which helps. and i have connections for living cheap in Oxford.

Beer? Import it from Munich

Fees? big problem. Banks? Sponsor? Daddy? got to sort that one out.

Feelings on EMBA...best thing I ever did.
2 years of hell, no social life, but I would do it all again.

1) I was lucky my company sponsored it, and gave me all the time off, I don't think I would have managed it on my own.
2) I came from an Engineering background, so all the holes I had with regard to finance, law etc. were covered.
3) It's given me the ability to talk with virtually anybody senior in a company, and understand what they're on about
4) The networking was and still is amazing
5) Ditto the alumni and connection with Cranfield.
6) I also learnt a lot about myself and my effectiveness as a manager (touchy feely stuff)

Lastly...-
It does matter which school you go to, go to one with a good reputation, it will open doors for you (Especially as all the schools in the UK are jumping on the bandwagon including Oxford, which is trading on it's name, not a good MBA course)
Salary will increase, but not just cos you've got an MBA, more a case of where you went and how you're using it now. You have to work at it.

This is getting a bit long, but rankings...depends on how they're measured. Cranfield is 11th in the world according to the Economist - this is measured by the students, and not by how many foreign lecturers they have on the payroll.

I would not hesitate to recommend Cranfield, it was a life changing experience!
Have fun!

I'm half way through OU MBA, and I'm still managing to have a social life. Sure, you have peaks and troughs, but it's more than manageable.
I would definitely recommend it, if you want to do it. Don't just do it for the payrise, though. The networking is great, and actually the course material is really interesting.

That's why I said people shouldn't take my word as gospel.. looking at the OU thread even I was temtped with an MBA yesterday, I guess some people just have a thirst for knowlege! But I think people should be aware of the background and not just jump on the MBA-bandwagon without stopping to think about their finances, enjoyment, responsibilities, free time etc... and why they are doing it.

I've just decided to do the Professional Certificate in Management with the OU. Its not the full MBA, and therefore the financial/time commitment is reduced to 1 year. Also, my engineering background means that this will give me a good grounding in financial/organisational/etc.. issues which are currently new to me.
If in future i wish to do the full MBA (unlikely), then this will also give me the option.

Just finishing the OU certificate in Management - Excellent course. Will start the Diploma in November. Maybe next year will go full hog and go for MBA. Being partially sponsored by company, but can recoup some money by setting costs against tax:-) e.g. course, travel, hotel, flights

i am about 80% through an OU MBA just now, i have one exam and then one six month module left. i went into it knowing that my company was going to be helpful but not financially supportive, so its costing me a fair bit, but i have enjoyed the learning and hope to get something out of it afterwards. its fair to say i'll need a new job in time as my current one is too technically based to make use of most of what i am learning.

as for workload, i haven't been working my arsch off for the last three years, its not that hard, i probably do less than 3 hours a week which is easy enough. i think the 2 or 1 (full-time) year courses are much harder work - i'm happy with the choice i made and what it has bought me so far, i don't expect the company to come round with a wheel-barrow of money when i pass my MBA, it will be up to me to make it work for me, an OU masters is a good thing but its not going to have employers queuing up at my door, like.

Hi Latecomer - what's your next option? I'm doing financial strategy next.

The TU here in Munich offer an MBA: TUM

for all interested in an MBA... the world MBA tour comes through munich on the 14th of october at the ArabellaSheraton Grand Hotel [Arabellastrasse 6] Time: 17:00HRS - 21:00HRS.

Events
MBA Admissions Workshop
Time: 18:00 Hrs
Institution: Manhattan Review
Presenter: Joern Meissner
Title: MBA Admission & GMAT Strategy Seminar

MasterClass
Time: 19:00 hrs
Institution: RSM Rotterdam
Presenter: Dean, Prof. Mike Page
Title: Leadership: The Drive for Value

Panel Discussion
Time: 20:00 Hrs
Institution: Duke, INSEAD, Tuck, Stockholm SE
Presenter: Alumni & Careers Officers
Title: MBA Career Opportunities

you can register for this event at topmba.com

<Copy of a previous post I made>

If it's an MBA you're interested in, you should try the European Business College Munich(EBCM) which is a division of the European University in Switzerland. They offer Both a Bachelor of Business Administration(BBA) and a Master's of Business Administration(MBA) taught in english. They are a private institution which means that unless you are company sponsored, you will be paying for it out of your own pocket (or have to take out a loan from your bank.). The MBA program is taught mainly in the evenings and on weekends(So you can pretty much expect to give up your free time for the program duration but may be worth it in the long run). They also offer online courses. I hope to begin the MBA program next spring. Check out their webpage at:

http://www.euruni.edu/

Cheers!

Do you have to wear the funny hat?

Do you have to wear the funny hat?

chucktduck - I looked at these people before I started my MBA. It was a while ago now, but I seem to remember that they didn't have any accreditations for their program, which was the main reason I decided against them. Do they have accreditations in the meantime?

Does anybody know about the MiB School of Management ( http://www.mib.edu/ ) in Triest? They are double accreditied (awaiting confirmation on the third) and have quite a few contacts with pretty good companies, and offer an MBA in International Business in english. So I was wondering if anybody, who has done an MBA could give me some advice (or personal opinion) as to whether this is a good option or not?
I went to the MBA World MBA tour and came out really really undecided.

If you speak german, and can prove it with a test, you can study at a german university for almsot free. Only the english and french language courses (MBA in english for example) cost money. Why would you want to come to germany to study in english anyway? It doenst make much sense!

Under german law, everyone that is accepted to a full time german university is allowed to study for free (you only have to pay around €200 per semester for bus and administration fees). The only exceptions to this are people who are in the university forever (full time students) and those who have multiple degrees. Then it is a bit more expensive, but still under €1000 per semester. All the foreign language programmes charge outragious fees because they dont have to meet these requirements.

with 3 exceptions this is true: London Business School (where I went ;-) ), INSEAD and IMD

the best "value for money" (ROI) is actually IMD (in Switzerland)

what kills London's value prop to some extent is

1/ enormous cost of living
2/ 20-odd months instead of 11

upside is that you can do an internship between Y1 and Y2 (which you can't do in either the IMD or INSEAD scenario), and that is how the most lucrative jobs are actually bagged: it is like a 2-month job interview basically

I would recommend not bothering with anything other than a top 10 worldwide. the main cost you incur is loss of salary for 2 years, so you need to think about payback. post-MBA base salaries have dipped a bit even for the top schools, and for the lower-grade schools the numbers just do not stack up. do not expect to get much more than €100k p.a. even in the US unless you are in investment banking or the likes, so calculate back from that (living expenses + school fees + misc = a minimum of £80k = €120k for a two-year gig in the case of London, plus 2 years of lost salary at whatever your rate is today. remember you have to pay for this after or before the fact with *after*tax money, so the pre-tax cost in German terms is in excess of €200k + 2 years of net salary)

I only applied to London and INSEAD and got accepted to both, but if I had to do it again, I would have possibly gone to INSEAD not London purely on a value-for-money basis. life is cheap in the woods of deepest darkest Fontainebleau. a typical houseshare in London is a cramped, damp hole. in Fontainebleau it is a 10-bedroom chateau

the downside is if you go to INSEAD you have to accept that you *will* be a loser at the MBAT (http://www.londonsa.org/mbat/ "London Business School has a proud tradition in this tournament winning seven of the thirteen competitions.") and our big red bus is way cool

Just saw this thread. I just finished my MBA at Duke this past March. It was an executive program that allowed me to work full-time, but had to go to "campus" for a week and the beginning of every session which turned out to be about every 3 months. The program was called Cross-Continent program and they have a "campus" in Frankfurt. I would highly recommend this program to anyone mid-career. Here is a link to the description of the program.

http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/admin/cc/cc_home.html

I have to agree strongly with Jordigo. I would definitely only do one of the top programs, because 1) there is a reason that they are consistently rated so high 2) you can leverage the name and prestige much better 3) networking is a MAJOR, MAJOR benefit of B-school and the best students go to the top ranked schools.

The best benefits about the Cross-Continent program at Duke that I liked...

1) can keep working - helps with money and doesn't stall career advancement
2) study from anywhere - business trips are not an issue as long as you have internet access (BTW, this is not an internet course, you just need to be able to contact your teammates.)
3) only lasts 2-years
4) campuses in U.S. and German with exchange sessions so get a perspective from both Europe and U.S.

Hope this helps!

Again I have to ask why are you looking for an MBA programme in Germany? The best ones are in the US, with exceptions of some schools in UK, France, Switzerland, and Netherlands.

The course here will probably cost you more than in the US (?) and since everything is taught in english, you wont really get an international prespective. Ie-if you study in France you wont get a french perspective because everything will be taught in english and under the standards of the US MBA programme. I just say this because I know an indian who did his MBA in France (a good school, but I cant remember the name!) and he said there was really no french-twist to it, it was basically the same programme he would have taken in the US.

Again, if you are looking for a cheap option, apply to a german language programme at a german university. You can take BWL master courses and even some MBA for almost free. The requirements vary by university, but they typically tend to be completed study that makes you eligible for the programme, german language test, and enough money to survive (this is like €1000 per month in the old Bundesländer and €800 in the new).

The thread is a bit old, so just wondering, if you had done any research and made any decisions yet?

Managers Not MBAs: A Hard Look at the Soft Practice of Managing and Management Development

Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
Two decades ago, Mintzberg, a professor at McGill University who was then teaching MBAs at MIT, discovered a profound "disconnect between the practice of management... and what went on in classrooms." Since that time, he has dedicated himself to the problems of management and management education, both of which he believes are "deeply troubled," and the latter of which has become the wrong that he, with help from colleagues around the world, must right. Using words like "arrogance," "mindless" and "exploitation," Mintzberg outlines just what is wrong with MBAs (the people and the degrees) and why the degree he's developed is rooted in the real world and, as such, is far more relevant and valuable to students, companies and the business world at large. Strong economies are based on good management, not on good business schools, Mintzberg believes, and because the top companies employ the top MBAs and the top MBAs (not to mention the mediocre and bottom-level degree-holders) are, or so he says, the products of an out-of-touch and unrealistic graduate program, then the effects of this miseducation can be felt far beyond the classroom walls. Mintzberg's argument is clearly researched and set forth in a progressively logical and even convincing way. Managers and manager wannabes will be intrigued and can certainly learn a thing or two as long as they, as Mintzberg himself urges in his teachings, consider the source of the education.

http://www.amazon.com/Managers-Not-MBAs-Ma...4352&sr=8-1