MollyB
Nov 17 2007, 5:24 pm
I'm attending/participating in a seminar at a university on a non-credit (I don't need the "Schein") basis, alongside students taking it for credit. When I signed up, I'd thought it was pretty advanced; it's not. Am going through with it anyway, since I haven't done this kind of coursework =in= German and the instructors are employed full-time in their field rather than uni-profs.
Since I'll miss this week's workshop (work then Thx), I e-mailed the instructor for next week, requesting the homework assignment (due the week after next). I'd thought I could copy the relevant background info to take with me and thus get the assignment in on time. Which would require some heroics given my schedule, but I committed to the course, am doing it for me, and using it as a chance to pick the instructors' brains. The students don't seem to care so much - for last week's assignment, they all copied their homework directly out of a formula book - and got full credit.
No answer to my e-mail, so I called his secretary. She said it should be no problem ...
... then e-mailed that he'd said giving it to me in advance would be a violation of the Gleichbehandlungsgrundsatz.
I called her to clarify that I'm NOT a student, NOT doing it for credit, and that I'm only requesting a favor b/c my travel situation puts me AT A DISADVANTAGE.
Nope, that wouldn't be fair to the others.
Is this a fundamental aspect of the German uni-system or something?
tom_a
Nov 17 2007, 5:36 pm
Never heard of this before.
In what way would he be favoring you over the others by doing so? (even if you were a "normal" student?)
Freising
Nov 17 2007, 5:56 pm
Gleichbehandlungsgrundsatz, derived from
GrundgesetzArticle 3 [Equality before the law]
(1) All persons shall be equal before the law.
(2) Men and women shall have equal rights. The state shall promote the actual implementation of equal rights for women and men and take steps to eliminate disadvantages that now exist.
(3) No person shall be favored or disfavored because of sex, parentage, race, language, homeland and origin, faith, or religious or political opinions. No person shall be disfavored because of disability.
It doesnt make much sense to use this word in your case. I guess she meant something like fairness and used "Gleichbehandlungsgrundsatz" because it sounds very important and official and makes the pesky foreigner shut up.
MollyB
Nov 17 2007, 5:57 pm
My only guess: I'd have "more time" to complete the work.
tom_a
Nov 17 2007, 5:59 pm
Does the homework get graded for the Schein? If yes, he might argue you have an unfair advantage. If no, then it makes no sense whatsoever.
sarabyrd
Nov 17 2007, 6:02 pm
Absolutely correct: For one, you would have more time. For another, your prof is preventing any of his real students from receiving the homework assignment up front. You can swear yourself black in the face that you will not pass it on, he has to protect his ass, as any student failing the course who hears that you received preferential treatment can sue the prof.
MollyB
Nov 17 2007, 6:05 pm
A friend just mailed me this - looks like a quote from a commentary:
"Der allgemeine Gleichheitssatz gebietet, alle Menschen vor dem Gesetz gleich zu behandeln (BVerfGE 74, 9 <24>), und verpflichtet die Grundrechtsadressaten, wesentlich Gleiches gleich und wesentlich Ungleiches entsprechend seiner Verschiedenheit und Eigenart ungleich zu behandeln (vgl. bereits BVerfGE 1, 14 <52> [BVerfG 23.10.1951 - 2 BvG 1/51]; stRspr)."
Friend-who-doesn't-say-which-commentary claims that the fundamental principle includes the requirement to treat un-like / un-equal persons accordingly. But since absence from a class isn't a formal disability, bringing this up would probably get me laughed at (more).
Really don't want to seem whiny here - it just bothers me since it's such a flaky class, since the students aren't really doing work, and since I've actually been working in relevant fields for a long time. It's not as though I need to cheat.
@Sara - no-one's going to fail the course. It's not taught by profs; it's a "praxis-orientierte" seminar, the "Schein" from which can be used only for "Schwerpunkt" credit. The jokers who all turned in the same copied-off work got 12s. The guy who tweaked one calculation got a 14.
MonksTown
Nov 17 2007, 6:16 pm
As SB said he's covering himself, so there can be NO discussion that anyone was advantaged.
Does he want to put himself in a psotion to get sued by some snotty posh German who is miffed at you getting "preferntial treatment" ?
kato
Nov 17 2007, 11:21 pm
QUOTE (MollyB @ Nov 17 2007, 6:05 pm)

A friend just mailed me this - looks like a quote from a commentary: [...]
Not a commentary really. It's quoted straight from a German Supreme Court (
Bundesverfassungsgericht -> BVerfG) judgement, namely one from 4th April 2001, in which the BVerfG summarized the official duties stemming from Article 3, Part 1 of the Basic Law in particular with regard to large-scale administration (BVerfGE 103, 310, pages 318ff).
It's again quoted in full in e.g.
this more recent judgement from 2006 (part 14, on pages 9-11). A bit longer than the part you received apparently, but that part would be the only one relevant here.
MollyB
Nov 17 2007, 11:41 pm
Thanks Kato. May I ask how you found this so quickly?
(Friend sent source when I asked.)
MollyB
Nov 17 2007, 11:45 pm
Anyway - obviously, I'm not going to whine about this any further to the instructor.
To the intercultural aspect: am I nuts for thinking that a U.S. instructor would have been more open in telling me what reference works to bring with me? It's not an exam - it's one little homework for a non-credit seminar. I'm not a person who asks for help easily at all, so yeah, I'm taking this near-accusation of having requested an unfair advantage personally.
kato
Nov 18 2007, 9:12 am
QUOTE (MollyB @ Nov 17 2007, 11:41 pm)

Thanks Kato. May I ask how you found this so quickly?
(Friend sent source when I asked.)
Google, with the decisions referred to in the text.
MollyB
Nov 18 2007, 9:48 am
Ah.

I enjoy living in the delusion that some people really just know everything off the tops of their heads, without ever consulting
google or
wikipedia.
MonksTown
Nov 18 2007, 5:16 pm
You say you live a long way from the college and you mention some foreign holiday that is observed in one country and no one else could give a toss about.
Why should he be bothered? Should he bend the rules and open himself up to a potential load of ärger?
Seriously, ask him to e mail you the assignment topic just as he gives it out to the rest of the class.
chipbag
Nov 19 2007, 11:39 am
Perhaps they are taking the piss out of you with a pseudo-legal excuse for not having the assignment topic ready yet. BTW did you at any prior stage threaten to take any members of the university staff to court over anything?
You are viewing a low fidelity version of this page. Click to view
the full page.