20-year-old Canadian thinking of moving to Germany

Hello everyone,

I've been coming to this site for about a year just lurking and reading, and now I've finally decided to join the community. This is a great website, I really find the converstations on here quite interesting. Let me introduce myslef. I'm a 20 year old Canadian from the maritimes (aka Atlantic Canada). I'm thinking about moving to Germany for several reasons, but I'm also worried about a lot of things.

Firstly, I recently finished a program working in DisneyWorld Florida, USA. While I was there I met a great Frankfurt girl whom I've been dating for the past year. So, she is back in Germany now and is my main inspiration for moving to Germany. Long distance is not easy :-)

My next inspiration was one I kind of just stumbled upon. I have not gone to university yet, and I feel that now is the time to go. I've always wanted to be a pilot or any career involved with computers. After being very discouraged by the high tution fees here for pilots ($40-80,000) and also very high fees for computer science degrees I started to look at options abroad. Little did I know that one could gain higher education in Germany, for nearly free(compared to here). Wow, that really shocked me and got me very interested. I've spent a lot of time looking at the DAAD website too.

I also just recently went to Europe and backpacked for three months. It opened my eyes to the world outside of North America. I really loved Germany, the people, the food, the culture, the country itself was great.

Now, I've started to learn German on my own but it probably wouldn't translate into much once I got to Germany. Books and audio CD's can only do so much for me, but I am determined to learn. I know to get into most universities I'll need to be fluent.

Here's my questions (purely seeking advice) :

1.Has anyone had a similar situation as me?
2.I am thinking of moving there and working a odd job, and learning German on the side. Is this easier said then done?
3.Does anyone know any good low cost uni's that are in English.
4.TestDaF, anyone had to do this? How hard is it?
5.If I did a distance learning degree from Canada, would it translate into much in Germany?
6.Any ideas?

I have a lot of silly questions. I just need to have another prospective on some things. Thanks in advance for any responses. I hope I can have some good conversation with you all in the future.

I would look at the University of London if I were you. They don't offer degrees in all disciplines, and you must be very disciplined in order to study on your own. Their website is londonexternal.ac.uk, and a bachelor's degree probably costs about the same as a German one if you are able to finish in 3 years. Very well known and accepted internationally. Athabsaca U is good, too, but I think U of L is better in most disciplines.

If you are a good test taker, you can get a MBA from Heriott-Watt University without a bachelor's degree, but their exams are renowned for their difficulty, and thus are definitely not for the faint of heart.

Hey there, I'm from St. John's and came over about four years ago. Worked and tried to learn german at the same time, ended up taking the testDaf and am now going to University here (in German). I'm to tired to post specific things on here right now however will try to do that in the morning. Good luck with it all.

Thanks for the replies.

iain- Nice to hear from a Newfoundlander, very encouraging.
Conquistador- Thanks for the ideas, I'll check out those schools

I know another Canadian here who studied in engeneering in Karlsruhe. Because his High School Diploma (Ontario) wasn't fully recognized here, he had to take a year of German classes (Math, Physics etc) before he could start his German Uni courses. Might be something to check out beforehand.

Thanks zorsey, I looked into that and it's possible I would have to attend a studienkolleg because my High School Diploma is not recognized. It seems only Quebec ones are..?

ok sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. The big problem I can for see you having is entrance into Universities here. The Abiture (german highschool) is seen as higher level than high schools in north america, wether this is true or not is debatable but this is how they see it. So to get into University here one needs to accomplish higher than a high school dimploma. When I did it they required two years of University. This would be your first obstacle. Secondly is the German requirement here, to be accepted into University I also had to prove proficiency in german, I did this through the the testDaf and the University that I visited required at least four in all four of the tested areas. (five is the highest, three the lowest possible received grade) Now this is for University, there is however Fochhochschule (advanced technical college) which have lower requirements, for example they require threes in the testDaf as opposed to fours. What they require University wise I don't know as I didn't apply for them.

The problem with working and learning german at the same time is not really finding the time to do both. If you are willing to work in a bar then you can study during the day (attend language school) and work at night. However you do have to get a visa to work and I don't know how this works for Canadians. I have a EU passport so this problem didn't come up for myself. If you do want to ask me any more questions feel free to pm me.

And when you get there, you`ll need to be pretty self-disciplined to get through the course and pass your exams. University courses in Germany tend to be a lot more unstructured than their North American or British counterparts. You`re much more left to get on with it, its much less timetabled than in Anglosaxon countries. A lot of students here end up dropping out as a result, or else taking several years to complete their degrees. However Ive heard the courses at Fachhochschulen, which are kind of like Polytechnics or technical universities, are more structured and shorter than those at Hochschulen.

Are you keen on Frankfurt then cos the girl is there, or just anywhere in Germany?

Passau Uni is meant to be pretty good for computer science or one of the best in Germany I think. Not sure what they do in English though. Lovely wee student place, 50 000 or so people, very studenty feel. Was there at the weekend getting hammered there, good times.

I agree with rick de mostly, but I believe they are changing the German system to be gernerally shorter and more in line with other European degrees. I dont really know how exactly though.

I would disagree with rick de on the students dropping out though, I think the way they do things here is a lot more mature than the spoon fed way I see in the UK and if anything I think it encourages most people to put themselves out. Its a lot more flexible and they are big into their compulsory work placements for some courses at least. Just my thought...

I have also heard that Uni Karlsruhe has a fantastic CS program, plus a close proximity to SAP facilities for Praktika.

Universities here are very unstructured compared to American Universities in the sense of assignments and midterms and such like. My course base is simply final exams and laboratories. However if I don't stay well on top of things I get behind very quickly and with nine or more exams a semester that ain't a lot of fun (my degree is a bit extreme) The technical colleges are a from what I have heard more structured and more like a north american system.

They are currently breaking degrees at universities up from what is now know as diplom to a bachelors and masters degree to make universities more internationally acceptable.

As for German universities teaching in English: Most (if not all) first degrees are taught in German. There are various advanced degrees (Master, Doctorate) where English is used as the main or sole language, but those would not be the kind of programs you are looking for in your situation.

If you're reasonably talented and fully committed, and English is your first language, then you can usually get to the required level of proficiency in about a year. But that would imply that you are quite dedicated as opposed to just doing some German studies "on the side", otherwise it can take considerably longer.

You may find this thread from the summer useful:
I'm planning to study abroad


According to Anabin, which is the database for the recognition of foreign diplomas and degrees, I think you are right: either a Studienkolleg or one year of university study abroad (to continue same subject in Germany).
http://www.ifos.de/anabin/scripts/SelectLa...nrichtungen.asp
Additionally, for a Newfoundland diploma it lists specific requirements:
at least 36 credits (among them at least 20 in Level 2 & 3 and 9 in Level 3 courses)
at least two years of 2 languages (English may count, I think), with at least one language at Level 3
two years of mathematics and two years of science, at least one of these subjects at level 3

Did you happen to take the SAT or ACT? With US High School diplomas a 1300 SAT score plus a 3.0 GPA allows direct entrance. Maybe you could get them to do something with an SAT score.

Hey, another Maritimer!

2. I think you could do it if you were very self-disciplined and went to an actual language school here instead of just doing it all on your own. What kind of visa would you be getting, a working holiday one? Check if that allows you to take language courses while you're here. You have a potential big advantage having a German girlfriend who can help you and provide lots of real world conversational practice, but if you're used to talking to each other in English all the time, it's probably going to be a bit weird and frustrating to switch to German. Basically, it's possible to come over here and cocoon yourself in English - internet, English language books and newspapers, spending time with other foreigners, speaking English with your girlfriend - it's twice as easy in an international city like Frankfurt - and if you want to really learn German, you need to make an effort to see, hear, and speak as much German as you can.

3. As far as I've seen, most uni programmes that are in English are a) advanced degrees; b) charge much higher tuition fees than the normal programmes taught in German.

4. I'd like to know this myself! :)

If you're serious about studying here, I think the Studienkolleg might be a good way to go, whether it's technically required for you or not. That would give you time and an appropriate environment to get your language skills up to scratch and if you've been out of high school for a few years a refresher probably wouldn't hurt either. I don't know about comp sci, but I hear that a lot of the German students drop out of first year engineering because they're not prepared for the difficulty level. I also have the impression that the Abitur IS a higher level than a high school diploma from the Maritimes, generally speaking. (Take it with a grain of salt, obviously. I don't have a lot of hard evidence to back that up.)

Also, be aware that if you do end up studying here, it requires you to be a bit more pro-active about everything than back home. At the unis, at least, you need to keep an eye on things and make sure you're taking the right courses at the right times, that you're registered for the tests you need (the deadlines are short and binding!), etc. The Bachelor they're in the process of introducing here is 3 years and much less flexible than the North American version, as far as I've seen. And yes, you will get less feedback during the term than you would at home. How much less depends on your major. (I was already pretty used to writing one big essay or exam at the end of the term and that's it, but I know other majors/unis do it differently.) So you need to be a bit motivated to keep up with the work for your own sake, not because there's a midterm coming up that you need to pass.

Funny, I was amazed how cheap flying lessons are over in Canada compared to the UK (Not sure about here to be honest). It's one of my plus points for moving to Canada

Doesn't answer any of your questions, but you mentioned it so I felt compelled to reply

Very expensive in Germany. Due in part to the high tax on aviation fuel in Europe and the low tax on such fuel in other countries such as US & from what you say Canada.

If original poster is planning to come to Europe to get your ATPL you should do research on subject as it seems that many here go to Florida for that purpose (if paying out of their own pocket) due to the weather & the cost.

I don't have an ATPL (just PPL/C)...

Thanks for all the replies everyone :-) I can't believe the wealth of information on here.

It sounds like a Studienkolleg may be the way to go. Maybe first attending a summer language school to get a grasp of German, and then doing a studienkolleg for a year. It would probably benefit me since I have been out of school a few years, and it would give a basic understanding of what is expected in the German education system as opposed to what I'm use to with my less superior Canadian high school diploma, haha.

Luckily my girlfriend is willing to move out of Frankfurt, so my options for schools are pretty wide open. For some reason does not want me to go to Berlin though. I think she believes all of the East is no good (don't ask why, I like Berlin).

I found a program is Essen that caught my attention. It is English the first year, then German the remainder. LINK HERE

As for the whole Pilot thing, I'm not sure what to think. I have a German buddy who is my age and just got accepted into Lufthansa training. It's all free apparently and lines up a job upon completion but it isn't easy to be accepted, even as a German. I've heard Flight Schools are cheaper on this side of the pond, but it still seems like a lot compared to a University education. My cousin graduated top of his class at the Moncton, NB flight school four years ago and still has not found a permanent job flying. He also walked out with a $70,000 student loan debt. Before meeting this girl I was bound for the Canadian Air Force, but as you can imagine she hated that idea. If things were not so complicated then a Florida flight school would have been a thought.

Once again, thanks everyone. I'm discovering a lot of new things with your help.

Hi there,

Where in the maritimes are you from? I'm from Saint John N.B and came here two months ago on a working holiday to take a break from Univeristy. I met a girl from the states here and right now she is doing the Studienkollege because in Germany they don't recognize Canadian or American highschool diploms since we only have 12 years now and not 13, so unless you find a private international univeristy here that teaches in english (they are pretty expensive), you have to do what would have been our grade 13 again.

No way is it free. AFAIK you have to pay for it (usually via a loan) & then you spend lots time repaying. As for job lined up: a young guy in our flying club went through the Lufthansa training (his pa is CRJ captain) and on completion he had to wait about a year before a job came along - and then only cos Cityline was looking for ARJ FOs & asked first if there were any kids of existing captains ready for a job. After a short while flying ARJ hes flying B737 for LH I believe...