Status of long-term but unmarried couples

Stop trying to confuse the poster, Isarvorstadt.

No you are totaly and absolutly wrong.

Germany does recognise your relationship. It just doesnt equate it as equal to a marriage.

Get over it it isnt anything personal, its just that this country believes in marriage and family as being the staples of society. They will not change laws which place those who have made the commitment to do so at a disadvantage to those who havent.

You should have posted on TT before you came, I have a feeling you would have recieved better advice than from the consulate.

We've established that that's the case for Australia.
Does anyone know how the US, Canada and the UK treat this sort of thing?

UK certainly allows it.

Gay people getting this official status aren't ALLOWED to get married. Otherwise they would. I don't understand your reluctance, either. Marriage seems like the logical solution for you in this situation, because it's really just a legality that makes life easier for two committed people. Love is beside the point. Maybe this is stretching the point but it seems a bit like wanting to buy a house you could easily afford and set up a mortgage with the bank, but refusing to sign a paper at the closing because why the hell should you have to? even though you are totally honest and reliable and will pay back every cent. Face it: you are practically married already. Too late to make stands for being single and independent.

Common-law marriage exists in Canada too. It was implemented before gay marriage was legalized for the purpose of giving such couples equal status to married couples because they couldn't marry legally. AFAIK it hasn't changed since gay marriage has been legalized.

So a UK resident can bring an unmarried non-EU gf/bf into the country and he/she has a right to receive a residency permit, as long as they can prove they've had a long-term relationship abroad?

Correct.

I don't blame the OP for not wanting to get married having seen the enormous emotional and financial cost of divorcing, I'm not sure I want to either. Something that can be easily avoided by taking on common-law status as opposed to marrying.

I think that rather depends on the colour of your skin, tom_a

Hi Bilby,
I understand ur concerns, but you have to think and understand from the govt's point-of-view too. No developed country in the world offers you things for free..only the best things in life are free..! ;-) well, consider ur case and think of the consequence of letting this rule...then the population would increase drastically if atleast some percent of the population is hooked up to different people from different countries..! ;-)..and in Germany's case, it is already afraid that the total original German population is diminishing because of various reasons..especially, because most of them are trying to be single and without children..! This is the reason why Germany has introduced the rule that the parents will get some money every month if they have kids..! I believe that there are a hell lot of people just waiting to get in, if given a chance..and among them, some of them might be terrorists, some poor unskilled folks from other countries, etc etc..And definitely, its gonna affect the economy of the country too..! I have also heard about some people who do illegal business like this by finding the loopholes..I mean i have heard in the news sometime back that there was this controversy in UK about some female, who was getting married to some guys who are from different countries and wanted to get UK citizenship..So, if these kind of things happen, how do u think that the state will believe u?..Even if they believe u, they cant do something special for u..! Isnt it?..well, i think that the only options are to get married (marriage brings many legal things into account which u wudnt know unless u face something)... or get a job and stay around...or look at some other loopholes in the legal system of the state..! ;-) ...
I just stated a few reasons...there must be sundry other reasons for the government to ignore these kind of things..! :-) well, 'Viel spaß' anyways...chow..! :-)

It's not just a law or 2, it's a whole bunch of them. My main gripe is with dual citizenship not being allowed (see other threads), but it all adds up.

According to this site, it's not correct:

http://www.webbimmigration.com/uk_family_r...try_permits.htm

Common law marriages can only be recognized, if the partners are not allowed to get married under UK law for whatever reason. Is the website wrong?

Err so two people who have been to gether for ten years in a common-law marriage can split without any emotional or finacial costs? I think not.

Germany wants to keep marriage special and somthing more better and worthy as an institution than other countries. Fair does to em. Looking at the divorce rates in other countries woth common law marriages, you could say they may have a damm good point doing so. Pahh burning liberals tha lot of yas.

I think it is, yes. At least in part - doesn't exactly detail the different kinds of applications and procedures does it?

This is a good description of the law tom:


edit: from time to time I advise on basic immigration issues.

The US seems to have particularly intriguing rules:

Common law marriages are accepted for immigration purposes if and only if a common law marriage is legally recognized in the place where it was entered into. Hence a couple cohabiting in Australia (where it would be considered married under common law) is eligible for US residency, whereas a couple cohabiting in Germany (where this does not constitute marriage under German law) would not be.

Interestingly, this would mean that Bilby could move to the US if her partner was a US citizen, but only because the US thinks that she is legally married and will treat her as a married person with all rights and obligations. Which appears to be the same thing that Germany would do, except that Germany expects you to produce a formal marriage certificate as proof of your married status...

(Source: http://dallasimmigration.com/marriage.html)

From Wikipedia:


Similar to Germany then.

@tom_a: In the US, different states have different rules.

The source I was quoting says that some US states recognize common law, whereas others don't. If you want to get a residency permit for a foreign partner, the "common law marriage" must have been led in an area where common law is recognized, be it a US state or a foreign country. So living together counts in some US states, but not in others.

At least that's what the website says.

You definitely got a bum steer from the consulate, and you are not the first. I had bad advice myself (in writing) from the consulate on another issue when I moved here but managed to get the right info before travelling. I too was quite indignant at being let down by those who should have known better.

It is a shock, to find yourself in this situation despite your efforts to do the right thing. It also takes a while to come to terms with what you have always considered to be a normal state of affairs in Australia, to find out that this is simply not the case in Germany. I think the church has a much stronger influence on attitudes here than back at home, even though formal marriage takes place in registry offices here.

Unfortunately, it is something that you will have to come to terms with and do try to let go of the principle of that if it is handled one way at home then it should be done so here. Getting caught up on the principle of it all just brings you down and takes your focus off solving the problem you now face. I am sure you are already starting to come to terms with it all, and hope that you find a satisfactory solution.

Perhaps your prospective company can write you a letter to say that they have made you an offer with a future starting date. This should be enough to get the visa, but worst case scenario could be that you will have to leave Germany for a few months until it takes effect. But you could be lucky - so much depends on who you get to process your application.

And finally, playing devils advocate, is it really a problem to get married after being together 10 years? I understand the principle of it all, but if makes your life easier here is it such a bad thing? In my experience things don't change that much relationship-wise, but you have a nice party with your friends, and as others pointed out there are definitely financial advantages if you are not earning at the moment.

Good luck and enjoy settling down in Germany. Things do usually get better :-)

I dont think any European country would give common marriage law full credibility (at least not to non EU citizens) as this will boost immigration big time from 3rd world.

This may be slightly off topic, but I can understand why someone chooses not to get married and instead stays in a long-term relationship. I got married before the Bush administration wanted to constitutionally ban gay marriage and before individual states did ban it. If I was now considering getting married in the US, I wouldn't since in a (n obscure, emotional and unrational) way that would feel like supporting the "Bush/Kansas/etc institution of marriage" and I'd rather not be a part of it. Choosing not to get married may well be also a show of commitment in that you don't want the rules and regulations to define your relationship. It may not be practical, but it is kind of romantic.

I *think* Norway will give a visa to the partner of a non-married couple if they have been living together for more than 2 years regardless of if they can or cannot get married.

Solution, if marriage doesn't mean anything: get married now and divorce again before going back to Oz...

The UK does - not 'common law' as such as such a thing doesn't really exist. Just that if you've been together for 2 years, and can show a loving and sexual relationship. Remember, one party must be an EU citizen and therefore it doesn't impact on immigration THAT much.

Well they all require some amount of paperwork anyhow. At this point the paperwork to get married could well be less than the paperwork to prove you've been committed for ten years.


Sure thing Endie.


That just sounds funny. Are you coming or going?

Wiki provides a pretty good overview concerning the attitutides to common law marriages in various countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage
(Same link already posted by STB further up)

Apparently, in Canada and Australia it's also mostly up to the states/provinces how they treat common law marriages.

And at least in the US, if a common law marriage is considered valid, it is by definition the same as a "normal" marriage. You can only dissolve it by going through a formal divorce (equal to divorce procedures for "normal" married couples), i.e. you are treated as a married couple in every way.

Ok. It is hard to believe same UK takes 3 weeks and 100 questions to give me a single entry visa valid for 1 week even though i have a permanent German residency

Photos of you shagging or something?

Strangely would probably be accepted - usually a declaration to that effect is fine. Recently part of the evidence I saw for an application I was working on was a picture the BF had drawn of his missus in just a g-string, coupled with a letter telling her how when she arrived back in England they'd be spending the first 24 hours fucking. I shit you not.

do you work at the Home Office?

Did it get her application approved?

Schotte - no - some application stuff needs to be notarised before the British Embassy in wherever (this case SA) will accept it.

And tom - yes - she's here, no doubt walking funny, but she's here.

Reminded me the response of a Turkish guy who was trying to get a visa to Russia. When they asked him, why do you want to go to Russia ; he answered "your women need me".

It's actually a lot easier to marry for a visa than to get a partner visa. To get a partner visa, you have to prove that you've been together for x no of years and show proof in the form of joint bank accounts and rental leases and maybe photos proving that you've been on holidays together (an Aussie friend needed this). If you're after a visa through marriage, you show the marriage certificate (at least in Germany). Which one is easier to obtain?

we had the same situation when moving to Brussels. We were engagaed (fiance EU citizen, me not), even engagement was not recognized. We got fed up with bureocracy and went to Las Vegas to get married. Had a great time, I got a job 2 weeks after and very proud to tell our kids now how cool mummy and daddy were (are) ;-)))

My brother-in-law was recently head hunted to a position in Germany and assumed he bring his de facto. Note, not his 'girlfriend' but the woman he has cohabited with for years, including joint bank accounts, finances, wills, the whole kit and kaboodle. They too were given incorrect advice about the situation at the German Consulate in Sydney and only discovered at the last minute - through another source - that Germany does not recognise de facto relationships. In their case, they got married hastily at a registry office, only to discover that even that wasn't good enough without stamps from Foreign Affairs - the Germans were worried that they had got married too quickly before he arrived.

And as for 'why not get married'? Well, some people don't want to. They just don't. In my (now) sister-in-law's case, she also hates the fact that in Germany she has lost her surname, because here she gets called by his surname only.

hi Bilby, is he a German national or a national from some other EU member state? If he's a German I agree that Denmark is really the best idea but of course you can get German tourist visa extensions for a year or two to think about it as long as you have money and health insurance. You should also be able to get permission to work freelance at the same time as long as it's not for a Germany-based employer.

I know plenty of married couples in Germany who use different surnames (We use the same surname...).

As for the US only a handful of states recognize it. If I remember correctly, it is usually about 10 years together. You have no only bank accounts together but also sometimes considering yourself married as well as at times using their last name. My grandmother and her partner have this. He considers her his wife, and she even receives junk mail with his last name and her first name. Also having utilities and an apt together count.

I found that I couldn't get the partner support thing for my visa. Ok, my fiancee filled out the form paid 25 Euros for it, and they said ok good, now you need your own health insurance and a job. So even after he stated that he was and still is supporting me 100% they wanted me to have a job also...so I don't know about that visa sponsering someone, it didn't work in my case. I couldn't understand what the point of the form was if I still needed to get a job.

We are also planning to marry next year, one to save the hassle of the beaurocracy, two because yes we love each other and want to marry, and three for the other benefits a married couple receive along with public health insurance. We are just marrying a little sooner then we planned to make things easier...

This country is not very accomadating for a single person...

Marriage and the family shall enjoy the special protection of the state ...

There are a LOT of single people in Germany...

May be correct that to: "two single people who want some of the benefits granted here to married couples without taking that step..."
Seen here as having cake and...

Well, if she was stupid enough to give up her surname then she deserves it. There is no law that says you need to do it and, in fact, while applying on Monday for our marriage 'license' in Germany, I had to let them know if I planned to keep my own name (hell, yeah!) but she said I could change it later if that is what I decided. No thanks to that.

So, being the same position of 'getting married after years of shacking up together', I asked myself - what is really going to change? Nothing. Oh, yeah, well, we'll have an extra piece of clutter hanging around the house (the wedding certificate), but, other than that, nothing.

Only the hassle of getting divorced should you no longer want to be together some time later in the future. Ive heard that can be quite protracted in Germany compared to other countries. Whereas if you are single its no problem.

Bzzzzt, wrong! If you're single it's impossible...

You do have to agree on a so-called "Ehename" that will then be passed on to your children, if any, and you sign the register with that name. But for all other legal purposes you keep your own surname.[/pedant mode again]

You don´t necessarily ... Möglich ist auch, dass die Eheleute bei der Eheschließung keinen gemeinsamen Ehenamen bestimmen. Dann trägt jeder Ehegatte den zur Zeit der Eheschließung geführten Namen weiter

Not in our case; we don't have to even think about it till they're born, and it could be a hyphenate in either order, my name, or his name. I don't recall whether this was because we chose to marry under American law (it's the most liberal with regards to names) or if that's for all Germans.

As for your own married names, you can choose the laws/guidelines for names of any one of the countries of which either of you is a citizen, even if you get married in a different country.

I meant you can split up with no problems. Duh!!

It is worth speaking to a speak to a tax advisor when it comes to completing your tax return. He should be able organise it so that some of your living costs that are paid by your employed partner are tax deductable. In this way you can get a benifit in a similar way that married couples share the tax allowance.

The first year my (now) wife moved here we managed to offset a number of costs against my tax. (Our tax advisor noted on our tax return some court ruling that allowed this , I can look up the reference if required.)