Status of long-term but unmarried couples

Hi everyone,

We've just moved to Germany as a couple who are NOT MARRIED and this, what I thought to be small point, appears to be the be-all-and-end-all for all German bureaucracy. He's an EU citizen so can live and work without question. I'm Australian and because we're not married I have found out that basically I am on my own. No right to live, work in Germany even though came here with him. NOT the advice I was given at the consulate before leaving Oz. Not covered by his state health insurance as our children, step-children or even foster children would even be if we had any. Someone, anyone must have been in the same situation or is everybody out there married (or has got married since coming here?) Do people really just get married just for the 'benefits' it gets you here? Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bilby

Isn't it that way in just about any country on this planet: Residency rights are usually given to spouses of legal residents, but not to people who just happen to be their bf/gf... So what did they tell you at the consulate? On what basis should it matter to the authorities if you are his bf or not?

But we're not just b/f, g/f. We've lived together without admin hassle for over 10 years!!

There's nothing wrong with that. But why should that matter to the authorities? Anyone can claim they've lived together for 10 years without it necessarily being true, and without it having any legal consequences (such as the requirement to pay for your spouse's living expenses out of your own pocket if necessary...). Marriage is a formal commitment with rather wide-ranging legal consequences. Living together is not.

So what is the difference between b/f g/f who stays overnight very often, and living together...?

How should the authorities know this ?

Funny thing is I'm in the opposite position of being married but separated and that seems to not count in the eyes of the government. You have to be married and living together for them to be happy.

not everyone is married but then not everyone is as naive as you appear to be. look at it from the state's perspective - oh right, so you're his 'girlfriend', oh well, that's ok then.

i'm playing devil's advocate but you really should have done some more serious preparation before moving to the most officious and bureaucratic country in western europe.

You are in theory married under Common Law, but this has no legal recognition. I'm surprised that you're surprised at the situation you're in.

how or when does one become married under common law?

Most countries allow for common law status after living together for a while - normally between 1 and 3 years. After that, you're a married couple in the eyes of the law. You can share health insurance, superannuation, get taxed at the married rate - basically the same as if you were married, if you split up, assets can get divided as if you were married, etc. Not in Germany though. They don't recognise you as a couple unless you actually marry. I intend to take my partner back to Australia when I leave and can get her back on a spousal visa, and our relationship will be legally recognised from day 1 (we've lived together for over 3 years), but while I'm here I get no legal benefit out of living with a German citizen.

Easiest advice - get married, but in Denmark where it's a lot less hassle. If you've been living together for 10 years, then you pretty much are anyway.

In Austrailia. Which if your Austrailian obviously means you never had any problems being unmarried.

immigration laws are complicated everywhere. (me thinks)

A shared registered address, shared bank account, both names on the lease, joint purchases, etc. It's actually very easy to prove if they let you...

And anyone can get married without it being a true marriage, eg. just to get another person into the EU. Had we married before coming here just to get the perks that a married couple gets that would have been dishonest to the situation that, after 10 years, we are still together because we want to be together, not just because we at some stage got married. Plenty of people get married then divorced then married again as they please just as if they were starting up/breaking up with a b/f, g/f.

The consulate had said that because we were traveling here so he could take up a job offer and if we wished to remain unmarried then he could 'sponsor' my application for a visa which would, to the authorities, mean that he would be required to pay for my living expenses => so marriage-like for the bit they have the right to care about (ie. financials). But then, I shouldn't be in the on-your-own visa application category... and why not treat the health insurance in a reciprocal way ... if he's 'paying' for me then the insurance he pays for should cover me. Furthermore, I just found out his salary would be greater if he was married as he would be be seen to be supporting his 'dependent' but, but signing the 'sponsorship' form he's notifying them of the 'dependent' isn't he???

Obviously a shame marriage someone could take out is more meaningful than a real long-term ongoing relationship where I've given up my job, friends, family, country, better weather, etc. to come here with him to support him in his work...

well if marriage means so little to you then just get married for crying out loud!

and to be brutaly honets if you want to stay together and enjoy all the perks you'll have to get married. Simple fact.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some common law marraige provision.

Oh wait, this is Germany...

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some common law marraige provision.

no offence meant planetmoni but, well, it is. having moved back to the uk with a wife and child i didn't have when i left, it was a positive dawdle. in fact i've still not been to the town council offices for anything other than to look at new plans for a by-pass.

I know quite a few couples who are married, even after 35-odd years, merely because they want to be together. I really do not see how getting married, even after 10 years, could change the quality of your relationship. Plus, you would get all the benefits you are now missing.
Reading your last sentence leads me to think that you may be upset for other reasons and are using this legal issue as a vent. But I could be wrong, of course.

so it beggars the question, what do you have against marriage? after 10 years together it seems that getting married couldn't be considered a hasty decision.

There is but the whole thing is a can of worms in Germany. You could file for an "Eheähnliche Gemeinschaft" but the law is so complicated that you may risk losing certain rights that you may wish to hold on to. You really need to talk to an international civil law lawyer...

Bank accounts and so on as Haz suggested together with a sworn statement of a loving, long-term relationship made before a notary. Accepted in lots of countries, but I'm not sure about Germany - ask if German law recognises these 'spousal relationship' declarations - if so, pop to your Notar, declare your undying love and get the paperwork you need.

While I sympathise with your situation, you've been advised wrongly. You will either have to do it on your own or get married. Don't expect to go to the KVR and explain your situation and get sympathy - they'll tell you to get married.

If you plan to be here for a while, then I would seriously consider the marriage option - particularly as you were married in the eyes of Australian law anyway. It will make life a whole lot easier for you.

Yes you are wrong. My only issue is that Germany simply does not recognise our relationship full stop. In their eyes we have no more of a relationship than two people who met once which is simply not true. The simple ideological question is why should I be 'forced' to marry someone when we are already long-term committed? But then again we were foolish enough to move here so I just have to put up and shut up. Either marry or be on my own in everything I do here?? Funny how though if you wanted to receive social welfare then officially our relationship would then count.

I'm very surprised there's no way at all of having the relationship recognised - almost sounds like a contravention of the ECHR. But let's not go there.

As a matter of interest, how would Australia react to a foreigner coming to Oz with his girlfriend, would they accept it? I'm not being funny, I'm just interested.

We obviously cannot expect everyone else and every other countries laws to fit US.
We must behave as the countries laws require, when we move.
If I were to go to singapore for example, I will eat no chewing gum, since it is the law there, but will not cry until they accept MY WAY!!

urgh...

Sorry - last post addressed to Bavaria who was accusing me of other issues. Simply put, wrong country to come for to have civil rights that many other countries have recognised. Thanks Munich for "Eheähnliche Gemeinschaft" suggestion but when I enquired all the officials tell me it's just for gay couples or those receiving social welfare. Can you tell me any more about it?

Yes, but you sould learn all these before coming to here.

I'm pretty sure that the Aussie's would accept the relationship, albeit with some paperwork to support it.

Yes, that is obviously the contradiction in this law. If you are unemployed and want to claim Harz IV, then you won't get it if you are living with a partner who earns a lot. It's shit, yes, and I would go into a rant, but it's these sorts of uncompromising, stupid laws that have made me decide to leave Germany in the next year or so.


Yes, if you've lived together for over 1 year and can prove it, your partner gets a 3 yr visa. If you're still together after that, it's unlimited

Yes - hence contacting the consulate before coming. And their advice should have been what? Go get married because that's the only way to prove your love for this person to the German authorities? Otherwise, we just don't think you're telling us the truth about living together for so long because clearly, an Aust citizen wants to enter German on a dodgy excuse like that?

A handful of countries recognise common law marriage but most don't. Either get married or learn to live with the repercussions of not making that commitment.


Oh come on, no-one leaves a country because of a law or two that they think are silly.

I think that not recognising a long-term, loving relationship, would make me fuck off too.

That and the cunting supermarkets.

I am in the sort of same situation, however, I work so I am not asking my boyfriend to support me. We are getting married now (after 8 years together) because of practical reasons not because we don't feel committed enough to each other. For example, if you want to do IVF treatment, did you know that it is covered 100% by private insurance IF you are married and not at all if you are not? Also, if one of you dies (God forbid), the other will collect on the pension monies paid to the government - but not unless you were married. You don't have to give up anything. We already live together, we already bought a house together and we are, for all intents and purposed, married...but not in the eyes of the German government. Now that my boyfriend makes quite a bit more money than me, there is a tax advantage to getting married too.

Just do it...or find a job so you can support yourself if you need to (there are no guarantees in life).

and the simple answer is "You are not being forced to marry anyone". But you then cannot expect the "perks" (that's surely a topic on its own!) that go with being married in Germany...

Thanks Unterschleißheim - The plan is that I will work in Germany at the same place he does but not for about 6 months when funding, etc is organised. But being Aust I have to apply for a visa in order to stay longer than the initial 3 months allowed. On advise from the consulate I entered and am applying as they suggested, from within. I should pint out here that at no stage have either or us complained about paying taxes separately... just that no-one actually **recognises** the relationship (ie. so getting a visa and health insurance are made much more diffifult).
Freising - 'Either get married or learn to live with the repercussions of not making that commitment' : what? the commitment we've already made for 10 years. Gimme a break, you are really saying 'Marry or suffer for being in a normal long-term relationship'??

I wondered when someone would remark on that. Bilby, the username is the bit above the location, in the slightly darker blue box. Munich, Bavaria, and Unterschleissheim are just locations. I'm Gen, not "Isarvorstadt, Munich"...

And to the topic at hand, I think that US law also requires partners to be registered partners if they want to be on each others' health insurance. Registered with the state authorities. Not a big deal, you just have to do it. Getting married here in Germany if you're not a citizen is a pain though, someone already recommended Denmark and we got married in the US because there was lots less paperwork involved...

so niedersachsen, can you start using people's monikers and not their location please.

The way Hazza describes it further up, it seems that the "common law" marriage in Australia is more or less the same thing as being married, without the formal act of "getting married". Doesn't this simply mean that you are already effectively married under Australian law? (including most or all of the rights and obligations of an "old-fashioned" married couple)

If so, then what's the problem of formally getting married to be recognized as a married couple here? I mean, if you are anyway already married, then "getting married" is just a formal act without any further significance, no?

You are onto a looser if you believe that you can win a single-handed battle to change the ways of the authorities in this land.

There are "customs" in this country (such as sunbathing topless or even completely nude) on beaches but just because someone regularly does that here it doesn't mean they would persuade the US (for example) to let them do the same on a US beach.

i don't understand this reluctance to marry.

OK OK how about a break... so I am new to this chat thing and copied and pasted the wrong thing.

I thought that I'd find help and advice on here in my own language, not be told how naive I am for getting a bum steer from a consulate or not having whiz bang copy-paste skills for chat sessions.

Thanks to those who did help, but time to recognise that I really am on my own then.

Various posters did point out their understanding of German law/regulations, and there does seem to be a consensus as to what they are. Constitutes "advice", no?

Come on guys - don't be such a bunch of cunts. She's asked a fair question - why the fuck should she get married? I think it's reasonable to at least ask if there's anything that she can do, without having to face the TT moral majority on her personal life.

there is no help and advice in your situation beyond 'get married' or put up. you didn't do your homework before moving to a country on the other side of the world so don't expect sympathy from others who did do their homework and are tired of hearing about how it is back home. yes, it's a different country, with different laws, a different language and different cultures, what did you expect?

and you've also learnt another vital lesson. don't post a whinge on Toytown if it's just going to make you look silly.

She doesn't have to - but you cannot have your cake & still eat it - ie claim that you should be given the advantages of marriage (regarding residency etc status) and Not be married. Its one of the other. Choose.

I got married 19 years ago almost to the day (same grotty weather as well)...


Also don't overestimate the powers of Toytown in influencing local authorities

I agree that the law is contradictory and doesn't make much logical sense.

Still, unmarried couples can usually wriggle out of it by claiming that they only share a flat without having a relationship, or by officially registering under different addresses. Married couples can't opt out. So the difference in enforcability of obligation remains, and from what I understand, it's quite a serious issue, because a large part (probably most) unmarried couples try to wriggle out once they are asked to pay up...

Why should married or unmarried couples get benefits anyway?

I oppose this discrimination against singles.

Firstly HEM, congratulations. Secondly, most civilised Western countries will make allowances for long-term relationships - mainly for gay/lesbian couples, but also for those people who choose, for whatever reason, not to marry.

I readily accept tax breaks and health insurance and so on is perhaps a 'perk' of marriage - I do not, however, believe that residency should be one of them.

As to grazzenger - I seem to recall her writing that she DID do her homework, and was misinformed.