Being reported unfairly to social services

An appalling situation has arisen. My neighbours with whom we have a decade long cold war because of their noise - mostly now at night - have reported us to the Sozialamt because my 2 year old screams a lot - as 2 year olds do. Some of her screaming at night is caused by their own racket as they are regularly extremely noisy between 10 pm and 3 am and wake us all up. Our house has been soiled with eggs and tomato asuce in the last six months and we assume this is their adolescent son. We stopped talking to them long ago but now the hostility has become open and dangerous. I received a letter from the Sozialamt and rang up to explain the reality. Unfortunately the lady would not confirm to me the name of the informant. I intend to go to a lawyer as I fear every time my daughter screams they will now call the social services - these are the people with the power to take away your children in the worst possible twisted case. However frankly I do not know what a lawyer can do for me as it is our word against theirs - no proof apart from photos of egg and tomato sauce. I am very upset by this and just do not know what I can do to put a stop to a potentially horrendous situation. Anybody out there have experience of this kind?

And theirs against yours. Just go to a lawyer and get professional advice on the best course of action to take in terms of the Sozialamt complaint. Follow their lead. Oh, and when they are noisy at night call the police...every time. Eggs and tomato sauce on your house, call the police, every time. Or get some corn tortillas and make Heuvos Rancheros.

For fuck's sake, a 2 year old crying and screaming at night is not "the worst possible twisted case", unless you actually are abusing your child. Talk to a lawyer and any time they make noise or something untoward happens, call the plod. Basically show your neighbours that you are not a weak foreigner who can be pushed around.

Are the photos of egg and tomato sauce in separate shots or together in the same photo? If the latter then I might be interested.

I would actually set up a camera on your property so you can identify the perpetrator and take it to the police the next time your house gets food thrown at it.

I am not abusing my child OF COURSE and I do not expect the social services to remove my child but I am afraid these things can escalate. The lady I spoke to at the sozialamt was obviously just ticking boxes. I mean when do they send a visitor or force you to go to a doctor? Why should I get into this? This being Germany I can imagine that after 5 phone calls for example some thing is "ausgelöst" and after 10 something else, irrespective of any information you may have already given them. I have no idea how these things work and do not wish to find out. I find the situation just appalling. I have asked for Akteneinsicht but the lady at the sozialamt is procrastinating.

Document everything! Photos of vandalism, diary of events, everything, down to the last minute. You have to have something to go on. What about other neighbours? Can you find out if they can back you up, character witnesses if it comes to that?

What a nightmare.

Call the police from a phone booth and tell them you saw some middle eastern guys who came with a van, entering in your neighbour's house and heard them talking about bombs and Al Queda.

It's pretty obvious the muck has already been spread amongst our other neighbours. We do not have good relations with neighbours both sides and we do not really know the other people in the street apart from saying hello. However, people who used to say hello are now looking at the floor and hurrying on their way... I am not being paranoid this is really happening.

Then move.

Right well that's the ultimate in letting yourself being pushed about. This is obviously what they want - they are suffering the inconvenience of noise - as we have and do - and they don't like it. Who's to say the next hole will be any better?

Authentic butt-crack smell liquid may help. Hose their house with it.

http://www.liquidass.com/neighbor_revenge.html

I think the odds are in your favour for an improvement.

There's nothing like a nice optimistic outlook.

Nope, against the law. Privacy infringement and right to your own picture.
My co-worker reported her neighbor once, not for abuse but for neglect. Social Services came around, talked to the parents, evaluated the child and told the parents not to lock her out in the stairwell (3-year-old alone in a stairwell!) when she is throwing a tantrum and to make sure that she wears clothes appropriate to the temperature (diaper and t-shirt insufficient in sub-zero weather). They visited regularly for three months, things got better, then the family finally moved. And this wasn't any slum neighborhood, it was Haidhausen/Bogenhausen right behind the Prinzregententheater, the parents are tax consultant/lawyer.
So Social Services may turn up. Talk to them and stick to the facts about your neighbors being loud at night, do not accuse them of sullying your door etc. Ask them to talk to other people in the building as well so it is not just your word against theirs.

One. Calm down.
The complaint has been logged to the Sozialamt and they will in all probability follow it up. They have to for the saftey of the child.

Wouldnt we complain if a child is abused and the Sozialamt turned round and said "but the mother rang us and said everything is ok!"?

Once your in that system you're going to have to go through it. As you're not abusing your child you have nothing to worry about. If, and I really should write that as IF this goes further, it is though a mental nerve wracking and degrading process if it kicks off. I speak from watching a friend of mine having to go through this after his ex-wife accused him of sexual abusing his sons.

As to your nieghbours complaint, ring the police when they're making a noise, and report to the authorities/landlord etc, photograph everything and report criminal damadge again by calling the police to come round. (Your going to have to pay for the eggs and tomatoe paste on your door to be removed so your looking to sue some fuck for damadges and will need a police report and anzeige against unknown, play the system for all the note the dame instrument can do).

Go balistic. Fight fire with nukes and you'll feel one hell of a lot better than you do now. You're letting yourself being beaten. Buck up and fuck em. You dont need a lawyer. You need to use the system as it is to your advantage. Once the police have been around five times, a couple for noise, and a couple for vandalism you may find they will call thse socialamt to check what your nieghbours are doing. Revenge is a dish best served with large quantities of venom, a cool head and true belief that nothing short of crushing vctory is acceptable.

I have also been reported to the amt.

I too was really worried but then a good friend said to me, if there was really anything to worry about they had knocked on the door already and had taken my child away.

I too rang to find out why? and when I was by the meeting they asked me why I was so scared about the appointment, .. my reply was " Im not scared Im angry that I have to be here", and with that the meeting ended on a very positive note.

When I came they told me from whom the 'complaint' had come from, .. so you will find out when you get there. The more information you give without being asked is acutally damaging your own case - they may not, your neighbours have anything to do about this. Getting a laywer involved for egg throwing? Most kids if you ignore them go away, if "he/she" can see you are suffering; they will carry-on doing what they are doing to you. Your reaction is what spurs them-on.

I know its not applicable in this case, but can child services really do anything to an ex-pats kid? Doesn't seem like you could sieze a non citizen and put him in a foster home or something..

That's right. Similarly, if a foreigner breaks a law, the Police are powerless to act.

I would certainly hope and expect so...

Well I guess I didn't mean can they do anything - I am sure they can do something... but how would the seizure of a non citizen child work? I don't think you could legally just toss him in with a german family, wouldn't you have to give it back to the parent coutnry or something? Just curious how that would work.

Have you taken your child to the Kindervorsorgeuntersuchungen? (Preventive medical check-ups for children). If the child was born in Germany you receive a yellow booklet (Kinderuntersuchungsheft) after the birth of your baby with headers "U1" "U2" and so on. At pre-given intervals you take your child to a paediatrician and details of the preventive medical check-ups are entered in the booklet. Alone this will be a big help in ascertaining the level of parental care by the social services. As mentioned above, get to a lawyer, ring the police or better, go to the police and file a harassment charge.

Munich did send a 14-year-old Turkish kid ("Mehmet") back to Turkey without his parents, he already had a criminal record before he turned 14 (age from which you are liable for your criminal actions) so they waited until his first offense and shipped him off. Created a big stink as he had been born in Germany but he had family in Turkey who took him in. He returned after he turned 18, threatened and beat his mother to get money out of her, she told the cops, he hot-footed it back to Turkey and hasn't been seen in Germany since.
Social Services would try to find an adaquate family in Germany but might end up sending any seized child back to its grandparents or other relatives. Worst case scenario, though.

Slightly off topic: I heard a news item on the radio last week that a blind drunk 43-year-old mother was pushing her 5-year-old down Lindwurmstrasse (I think) in a stroller, colliding with parked cars and streetlamps. Passer-by called the cops, mother got thrown into the drunk-tank, kid is in state custody. Her blood alcohol was something like .38% in the middle of the afternoon.
Was the passer-by right to cause this family to be torn apart?

Do try to stop hitting the kid from now until the inspection so the bruises can fade a bit.

Kidding.

Mieter-mobbing rots. I =would= see a lawyer, b/c what's allowed (retaliation-wise) where you're from and what's permissible here might be very different.

What makes you think that, MB? Is there a separate set of laws for foreigners stating that you have to take insults to yourself and damages to property in stride because your grammar is faulty or you don't cook Schweinsbraten for Sunday dinner?

Thats hardcore, i'm surprised she could stand up.

I think that's a good example of what MollyB meant, sarabyrd. Hazza suggested the camera, I think it'd be all right in some countries, but as you point out above, it's not all right here.

Thank you for your input foiks. Makes me feel better. Guess I will be going to the police to file a complaint about noise and harassment, then perhaps go to a lawyer. I suspect it may be wasted money though. The police are free and scarier, right? We have been to all the yellow book medicals but unfortunately our regular paediatrician took retirement in July this year and we have to find another...

Who'd your doc sell the practice to? Your records should still be there.

German laws apply to everyone residing in Germany, no matter if it's setting up a secret surveillance camera or not crossing the light on red. MollyB's post came across as if foreigners didn't have equal rights.

From the first time they were noisy you should have called the police. Telling the police your daughter wakes up and cries because she is scared etc. After the third time the police shows up, (and you file a complaint because of "Ruhestörung"), the landlord HAS to take actions against your neighbors, telling them to stop being that way or they risk being kicked out.
If they'd still keep on, the landlord would have to give them the "fristlose Kündigung", meaning, throwing them right out of the house.

I wonder how you could accept all that noise and side effects without having the police over before. It would have probably not gone this far then.

It is actually OK to set up a surveillance camera. I enquired to the laws a couple of years ago when I considered doing it. If you don't record the images, then it's fine (as with some places that have doorbells with cameras near them that show who's at the door). If you want to record the image, then you need to put up signs stating that you have "Videoüberwachung". They need to be visible, but if you're clever about it, then the signs wouldn't be visible until you're in range...

I agree with Keydeck..

MOVE...

Could be worse...

Preciously useless as evidence then. Besides, the neighbors would most likely go for the camera first, then throw the eggs and tomatoes.

IIRC your yellow book will have all records of your U1 U2 U3 etc visits (its so long ago now for us).

Wait, why would it be useless as evidence?

Why? If you have footage of someone approaching with tomatoes and eggs, who then sees the signs and decides not to throw them, you still have pretty good evidence if you also have other photos of a wall with tomatos and eggs previously thrown. Attacking a camera would also be sachbeschadigung. You obviously don't use a normal video camera, but a surveillance camera that feeds images inside to be recorded. So even if the camera gets stolen or damaged, the images it captured up to that point are safely yours...

If you can't record you don't have any in flagranti pictures. Cops and judges love pictures, they thrive on them. Witnesses lie, pictures are good, solid evidence.

But you would record!

Although he'll be the first to tell you that he's not an expert, my cop seems to think that even evidence obtained in less-than-legal ways can still hold up in court.

Edit: not that the Munich police themselves would ever illegally obtain evidence, of course.

Exactly. You record and have visible signs saying "Überwachungskamera", but make sure that those signs are only visible once you are already in range of being recorded...

EDIT: Or hang up signs after you've made the recording. How can they prove the signs weren't already up?

Can I have one of those? But I'D rather have an "innere Schweinehund" like you see in one of the TV adverts...

Go the American route...if they feel they can fuck with you, fuck back but use a much larger dick, no lube, and fuck them way way harder!

So do some things that get their attention. You probably know their schedule. So, go rent a van one day, go round when they're not home and remove every window and door from their house. No one will probably notice, they will just assume they have bought new ones. Haul them all away to the dump or something and then return the van.

They come home that evening and then have to somehow figure out how they're going to call the police to report his. Even if they somehow get their insurance to pay for new ones, you'll still be annoying neighbour-free for at least a week.

And if you don't want to do that, just be mischeivious -- leave rotting chickens in the shrubbery under their windows. Or penny lock their door every night. Disconnect their utilities while they sleep (most buildings' cellar entrances are open half the time).

There are so many things to do. Just make sure that your level of attack is so far above theirs that they can't even think to retalliate or connect it to you.

Throwing baloney at their car when it will freeze over night...

here are some more I found

Subscribe your enemy to every form of junk mail you can lay your hands on, the more embarrassing the better...

Subscribe your neighbor to all sorts of weird sex magazines but send them to his neighbor's...

I am not entirely serious but I think they are funny...thankfully I don't have a problem with neighbors. The only one is the old guy not understanding how I can't speak German.

Even better just put up the signs without getting a camera and watch your neighbours when they search for it!

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation. I would be very concerned this could escalate further too. But what next? What you've described already has been hellish enough. I wouldn't do anything suggested by those wicked TT'ers to rataliate. As anger begets anger. The neighbors could even be trying to provoke you to act. Each time your place is violated by eggs or whatever I would call the police to have it documented. If it was me in your situation, I would take my child for a medical examination asap so there could be documentation that there are no bruises and it also make you look like you're being proactive. I wouldn't even see a lawyer as that's expensive and your neighbors are beginning to cost you more than they are worth. I would have moved long time ago as your peace of mind and your families peace of mind is far too important to be subjected to this kind of abuse and harassment from your neighbor. Regarding the report made to the sozialamt, I'm sure you are not the first person this kind of bogus report has been made on. I would make an appointment to go to them in person and try to explain your situation and take your daughter and the doctor's report stating your daughter is ok with you. I hope everything works out for you.

Thanks for a sensible reply Lavender. Just to clarify a few points to others. My retired doctor closed his practice being unable to find a successor. He was 80 when he retired! Obviously I do not fear the worst from the Sozialamt right now - I AM innocent! It is the thought of where it could all go that scares me, also I am extremely angry that I have to spend my time on this at all. Life is too short. But now they have rung once, I think every time they get frustrated they will pick up the phone to the Sozialamt. It is a fact, 2 year olds do scream loud and often. It is also a fact that their adolescents make a hell of a row at all hours...

We live in a semi-detached house. They are owners. We rent - but not from them. We thought about moving many times, believe me, but there are many advantages to being here too... all the camera stuff is not on my menu - the eggs and tomatoes were two events which have occurred over six months. You want me to install a camera for the 10 seconds it takes to throw an egg?? Just not real. And the reason why we never reported them to the police so far is that we did not want to make things worse. A police visit is guaranteed to destroy any hope of a good relations. We wanted good relations but it is just not possible. Amazingly these people sell themselves as a respectable churchgoing family... their hypocrisy is flabbergasting.

My husband spoke to a lawyer who basically said we are on to a loser. The lady was exercising her civil duty - albeit a bit enthusiastically... how does one prove malicious intent? All we could get her on is defamation for priming the neighbours. But frankly how do we gather evidence there? We hardly know our other neighbours - and this is not how I want to get to know them. They are unlikey to admit a long time doyenne of the street has been saying wicked things about us. No hope there, realistically.

A sense of humour in bad times is essential, so thanks for this tip. However, I presume that one also benefits from the pong. When seeking revenge one does not want to cut one's nose off to spite one's face. One also does not wish to get caught.

I'd take my kid to the doctor and ask them to check her because you have reason to suspect the neighbor may have been abusing her.

Thats too bad featherlight - didn't you read some of the customers' feedback?

Quote:
I squirted the whole bottle at once with a 30 ft stream down the hallway and it smelled like someone died!!! No words explain how bad it is. It cleared out the whole building. I mean the WHOLE BUILDING and the smell went around the block!!! It still smells so bad now that it is baking in the summer night's heat. It is now between a dead fish smell and a dead body that took a massive shit. It has lasted 8 hrs so far and still going. The fire dept came over and went in every room and floor because they really thought someone died!!! I can't explain the smell and the reactions, but you will be assured that I will be buying more next week!! Man, that is some stinky shit. WOW!

— ERZ, INC.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it. But do I wanna have this pong up my nose too??

Urrrmm... You still have hopes of good relations after all that has happened? Blimey. So your answer to it is to basically bend over and take it up the tailpipe then?

You need to go on the offensive or, as others have quite sensibly pointed out, move.

Crawlie, I too was concerned about this statement. From what I've read about her situation it seems very unrealistic to fathom at this point having a positive relationship with those neighbors, when basically it seems they've declared war on her. At some point, she has to come to the realization and accept this is irreconcilable. Everyone wants to have a good relationship with their neighbors, but hoping for this relationship to improve or resolve into something positive is really a pipe dream. Move on.