Why does my professor ignore me?

ben_gunn: From what I've seen of European (not just German) academic life, I'd agree with the assessment that the prof was afraid you might engage him in some unimportant conversation and he would thus miss out on the chance to network with his peers or with those of higher standing. But I really don't know why MollyB is making such a big issue of your wife. Probably your prof didn't even notice her. Still, good that you followed your own instincts though.

You say you are now finishing your degree, and that you will start a new job (presumably post-doc?) in January. I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if your professor's attitude changes dramatically once you have successfully defended your thesis and he can view you as a fully-fledged (albeit still quite junior) colleague.

Hi MollyB
I am really interested in what you are suggesting. Could you let me know where I can get these kind of classes you mentioned...""Once I 'got' the rules in one of UnGroom's antiquated clubs...send her to etiquette classes and see if she can find a mentor who understands things and can shape her up a bit..." Where do I begin. I do not want anything in my careers by the fact that I do not understand the rules. I would rather learn them now and advance than stay naive. You can also PM me. Thanks a lot.

I'd be making that face too.

At the end of the day though, moot hierarchies and professional detente don't exonerate the chap from being common-or-garden rude. Ignorant behaviour like that upsets the relationship that you assumed you'd established with him and I'd take him to task on it.

I'm trying to imagine a universe in which being dressed badly would have a negative effect on the career of a mathematician. Hell, I'm usually pleased if a few people in my department remember to shower once a week. I can't imagine they could care less about your wife's background. If you were in BWL then maybe, but math people especially really don't tend to care too much about that stuff, even the German ones.

My guess is the guy wanted to take advantage of limited time to set up some research with the visiting person. You, he can talk to any day of the week.

I just followed 3 pages of stuff and am more than a bit tickled that such distinguished replies followed such a simple silly situation.

What everyone misses is this. This professor may think you a nice person and willing to help out when he can ... at the UNIVERSITY. When meeting any professional outside of work/university in a social setting, it is absolutely reasonable to expect to be ignored. The professor was at this event on his personal time, the problem more so lays with you not understanding social boundaries and professional protocols. You were wrong to stay and wait, foolish in fact.

The next time you see this professor at the University, ask how he enjoyed the conference, and then keep things moving along.

I agree with MollyB and with Nadia.


Try dressing better than the students and more like a star student who's really going somewhere. Like someone your prof wants to network with. Grad students in the US getting ready to go on the job market (as I guess you are, after six years) also have to learn to dress better than the undergrads. You're at this networking event to impress, not just to learn from the speaker. And someone already suggested that your prof may've been afraid you were going to distract from his mission of organizing some research - does he have experience with you interrupting important conversations? How was HE dressed anyhow? Not sure myself how a brilliant math prof / student does dress actually, but a tick below your prof should be your goal. And your wife should dress as an asset too. Dress for what you want to be, not for what you are. Honestly, that you bother to point out that your sweaters have no holes in them? Come on!

Snubbing you shows his insecurity, but if you can make yourself an obvious asset to him at a networking event (look like you're brilliant), then even an insecure prof might be willing to talk to you in public. You haven't even said if he's new at the game himself, how old he is, how his standing in the profession is, etc. Are you planning on staying in academia? Figure this stuff out and pay attention!

And when you approach someone you know in a group of people you don't know but who are clearly having a business / networking conversation, approach from an angle that lets the one you know see you long before you get there. And make eye contact. And smile or give all kinds of other body language signals, but he can't turn his back on you. Thus you eliminate the very real possibility that he honestly wasn't really aware of your presence. And you don't have to tug on his elbow to get his attention. And you don't end up smiling and nodding at the other people he's talking to while he doesn't see you. I don't know where you're supposed to learn stuff like that though.

"should", no. If they can't leave it alone, they can at least become more aware of how the game works. One way of dealing with (and staying motivated to behave in) the game is ... to make a game within a game.

Not saying it's worth the sweat. Sometimes, though, there are situations one can't leave yet can't fully accept. Approaching them like an ethnologist and performing subtle experiments helps make it feel a little less a$$inine. I've learned a lot about how to treat people =better= through situations in which I was treated the way the professor here treated the OP.

Oh, and on the way the wife dressed ... I asked a mathematician friend (caveat: Dutch, not German) and he said that even mathematicians are subject to the charms of a woman.

Okay, since at least one person still seemed interested, I just wanted to add a few more comments here that are the result of some research I did over the past several days.

There seems to be a lot of people who feel that how everyone at "event" like this was dressed played a significant role. Okay, I can agree with that, although it wasn't something I was thinking about at the time. However, as far as how people were dressed goes, I would honestly say that I was dressed better than my prof at when I saw him there. My comment about "no holes" in our clothing was meant completely sarcastically (although if you know many math students, I can see why you might take it seriously).

Whereas I was wearing a nice, freshly washed wool sweater (that actually fit) and matched the jeans I was wearing, and had just showered and shaved only hours before arriving, and my wife was wearing nice pants, a sweater and had taken the time to freshen up make-up and hair before arriving, my prof was there in his "normal work clothes" meaning a big, formless baggy sweater with a shirt underneath, but no tie, and dockers. I did notice that he had actually taken the time to shave that morning (normally he seems to shave and comb hair about once a week and has sort of an "Alzheimer's patient" look). Another colleague of his (not prof), who was also there (and whom he had no trouble acknowledging) was wearing a bright yellow short-sleeved shirt and cargo pants. That's why I have a hard time believing that our appearance had some kind of negative effect.

I can understand that people in the academic world look at these kinds of events as "networking opportunities", but honestly, I was surprised seeing my prof or anyone else of that "rank" present, because I considered this event below him; something he would have no interest in attending. However, I was not there to network or interrupt anyone else doing so, and my question was really one regarding social protocol. I honestly thought that once we had seen each other, it was my responsibility as the "lesser ranking" person to greet my professor and let him determine whether he wished to speak to me or not.

Following the good advice given here, I did talk to an acquaintance who has worked in my academic field for a few years now to try to answer some of my questions. Apparently, this is all a pretty grey area as far as he could tell me. "Protocol" varies greatly between academic fields (as some here already mentioned) and even within the same field between different universities or other facilities, so there are no "rules" or guidelines about this kind of thing.

Now, since some here were also interested in learning about the social protocols specific to Germany, I wanted to mention that in researching this, I learned that some German began to lay down the "rules" for "Umgang mit den Menschen" in a book about two hundred years ago. This tome and its successors are referred to in German as "The Knigge" (in the same sense as "The Duden" is the last word in the use of language, this book should be the last word in politeness and social protocol). It has been updated and expanded on continuously since its first publication.

To those asking where they can learn this kind of stuff, I recommend this book: "300 Fragen zum guten Benehmen" by Elisabeth Bonneau. It basically gives straight answers covering everything from greeting (is it still necessary to always greet women first, even if that would mean greeting a secretary before her boss?) and table manners to letter writing, professional telephone calls and forms of address. It is definitely specific to Germany, so it's not just filled with bland "I knew that already" answers.

I would argue that most people do not take the Knigge and related "manuals" very seriously these days. In certain "conservative circles", parents may send their kids to classes that teach them how to behave properly. Law and business students of the type that likes to join a Studentenverbindung also seem to have a thing for it. Most people, however, don't seem to care much, and if you follow these "rules" too slavishly, you might find that people consider you uptight and square. Always depends on who you mingle with, and in what context...

@tom_a: Yes, obviously your average German will not be following all of these rules like a robot, and I can definitely see where you could come across as uptight following all of them to the letter. On the other hand, it's not really about following rules (most of them are just common courtesy anyway), but more about dealing with people in such a way that no one involved feels they've been treated poorly or that the situation becomes akward.

So are these types of books useful for dealing with cab drivers or clerks? No, most likely not. Are they helpful in dealing with people like academics and professionals? Yes, and for better or worse, those are the types who will most likely be making decisions that affect my career here.

So is it still necessary to always greet women first, even if that would mean greeting a secretary before her boss?
(To quote the example you gave from the book about good behavior. I don't know the answer to that one...)

Actually now it's all done by hierarchy (in the business setting) so none of the old "women first" rules apply any more since equal rights have now been established by law. First you greet the boss, then the secretary, but only if she initiates, since you are the "guest" on their turf.

This actually happened to me twice in the last year or so, and each time left me wondering what I had done "wrong" (or at leas what expecations I hadn't met). The first time, I greeted reach out to shake the hand of someone I knew and took to be in a higher position of authority. This person then admonished me -- and left me hanging -- in front of everyone, that I was to greet the woman first. Actually quite embarrassing, and wrong of them to put someone in that position.

The second time, was a job interview where three people were present. The third person was a woman who was never introduced to me, nor did she introduce herself, although she remained present during the entire interview. I didn't push it and ask who she was (at an interview, don't I have the right to know who those present are?), but just went along. According to my wife, this was another psychological "test" to see if I had a strong personality or not.

According to the "manual", I was correct, though. If you are the guest at another company, it's their responsiblity to greet and introduce themselves. Not your place to start asking for names. I think most people would have handled it the same way I did, though, anyway. Actually ended up getting the job, so I couldn't have been too far off.

I'd say in both situations the impoliteness was indeed on their side, not on yours. In general, it can perhaps not harm to know what those good manner books say, but read them with a critical mind, because quite a lot of their ideas are widely considered outdated.

In most situations it helps to be natural in a tactful way, and those problems about who greats whom first shouldn't arise that often. For example, if you arrive in a formal environment with a group of people, it's likely that the "most important" person is in the center and you greet him/her first. But if it's a group of people standing in line, I'd greet/shake hands from left to right because distinguishing by "rank" would be embarrassing. And in a casual situation, why not be gentlemanlike and greet the secretary first?

A very intereresting book in this context is Asfa-Wossen Asserate's Manieren. He's an Ethopian prince who has been living here for a long time and has a profound knowledge of German culture. It's more about observations and guidelines than simplistic rules.

When I was first here, I asked out of politeness, thinking any person present had the right to be identified. Turned out that it's often a hierarchy thing: the person was too "low" to merit introduction. Asking came across as messing with their ranking system.

In certain work situations, I do still ask: e.g. in early stages of a project when it's not clear whether all parties present are covered by the confidentiality agreement. Once, I was pretty sure the unidentified squatting object was support staff and I felt like a buffoon asking, even prefacing it with my 15-paragraph flowery disclaimer. Turned out he was not an employee and not bound by the secrecy agreement in place. My side had the right to know this. The client (German) just sat there and wouldn't have dared to ask, but it was rights to use of his work at stake.


Your wife has almost as many issues as I do, albeit different ones.


He also has much finer manners than do most of his German Corpsbrueder.

The "Knigge" wasn't about how to fold one's napkin, either. Many passages discuss living with your fellow humans. Maybe it says "carriage driver," but you can substitute "taxi driver." The author's great-grand-nephew (or something like that), Freiherr Somebody von Knigge, now writes books along the same lines.

(Mental note: Must remember to ask legal department to insert additional clause into standard confi agreements: "Both parties shall use their best efforts to make sure that no unidentified squatting objects are present during meetings.")

Yeah, you caught me being a little mean. I tend to (over)react that way when I feel someone's tried to set me up. The entire Knigge clan would blacklist me for referring to a fellow human that way.