Info and advice on acquiring a visa

Hello everyone and thanks for checking out our post. My girlfriend and I are fairly new to Berlin. We arrived in Europe towards the end of September and now have finally settled into a flat in Prenzlberg. We both recently graduated from college back in the states... I with a degree in German language/literature and my girlfriend with a degree in political science. Needless to say my German is quite profecient where as my girlfriend's lacks. Our question concerns how difficult it is to obtain a residency or work permit. Basically we just want to stay longer than the law allows (90 days for us Americans). Some questions we have are: Where does one go to get an extension? What documents are required? How much money should one have in their bank account? How long does it usually take? Any tips would be greatly appreciated, as we are starting to get a little nervous about our future here in Berlin... even though we have two more months! Thanks and can't wait for your responses!

Here's the official info: http://www.berlin.de/labo/auslaender/diens...en/ae-info.html
I'd recommend you get on it right away because it takes a long time to get an appointment.

Thanks for the website address, it's nice to have all that info close at hand. Makes it a little less scary seeing the actual application. Has anyone actually applied for one and how did they find the process?

Excellent link and useful multilingual forms! - the application doesn't seem to be Berlin specific either. I'd always thought applications for long-term residence had to be first made from outside the country. I hope you don't mind, but I added that to the TT Wiki

When I was first here before I had my German citizenship and applied for an extended stay they gave me a year. Someone once told me you need to have around 700 Euro per month you want to stay in your account, plus fill out the necessary form.

Venus has a good point.

Other Berliners might quibble with this but the bottom line on getting a residence permit in berlin is 1) proof you have money to support yourself and 2) a job (in some select cases viable job prospects will cut it, but not always)

I just got my permanent residence this summer. It was all about money and a job. Secondary was marriage and a half German child.

See that may be the kicker. We have enough money to support ourselves for at least three more months after our initial three month tourist visa gives out, assuming that 700 Euro a month is what they expect. Our parents are also willing to help us should we need extra money, which they put into a letter we could show the government. We don't however, have any job opportunities lined up. What we are thinking of putting on our applications is that we are writers, which is true, and are planning on putting a book out about our adventures in Berlin and how to make the move from the states to Germany. Is this a viable job source?

contact some english language schools and get the letter of 'intent to employ' from 2 or so, and some health insurance and you're almost there... for a year at least...

t.

I can't give you any specific advice about Berlin, but it seems to me that you and your girlfriend would be better served by having your parents actually deposit more money in your bank account(s). The people who issue visas will be a whole lot more impressed with money in the bank than an unenforceable letter from people who live overseas (it would probably be different if it was some sort of affadavit of support from someone resident in Germany). It doesn't sound as if you have solid enough plans to support yourself, even if you take tor's excellent advice to look into teaching English, which BTW will not pay well, especially not initially. 700 euros a month is too little for both of you to live on if you have to pay rent.

It sounds as though you would be a good candidate for teaching English (don't know if TEFL certification is required by language schools in Berlin) and I would suggest having your girlfriend look for work in child care. To be frank, it will probably look to others as though the two of you have not really thought out what you are doing. Writing a book takes time, and is not the kind of guaranteed income the folks who approve visas usually want to see, but if you have nothing else, I guess it's worth a try. Berlin has a very high unemployment rate, so it will not be easy for you to get a work permit approved for a permanent position (I would never say impossible). Keep in mind that non-EU citizens cannot do temporary work in Germany (Zeitarbeit).

Just want to give you a few things to think about. Don't get too discouraged, and I am sure others will weigh in with advice. Good luck...

Thanks again for all who have responded. Teaching English was one thing that has definitely crossed my mind numerous times. One thing which was mentioned is that I lack a TEFL certificate. I have previous teaching experience with tutoring youngsters back home in German and Spanish, but no formal training. Does anyone know any schools which would hire without a TEFL certificate? Also, how would one go about becoming an au-pair? I've seen numerous ads in Zitty for child care, but would they expect you to be an EU citizen?

you have to stay in germany legally for a minimum of 5 years to get permanent residence, under the new law:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/stichwort/zuwg.html

the zuwanderungsgesetz is partly eu law, an EU directive which requires member states to treat 3rd country nationals the same as their own. I got permanent status last year (it's called niederlassungserlaubnis) but it means I can't leave the country for more than 6 months a year without applying for permission. Despite the "equal treatment" stipulation in EU law, the basic requirement is that you are not going to ask the state for any money, so you have to show reliable income and health insurance. If you want to work in-country, you have to show that you are not taking a german's job - at least that's what it was a couple of years ago. If you don't want to go permanent, I have the impression you can get 1-2 years here on tourist visa extensions if you are studying german culture (or maybe researching a book, but you have to prove it) but you have to have health insurance and the necessary bank account. But if you give any indication that you are working here, that's it. After 1-2 years (unless you are well cashed-up and have a good explanation for your staty) they will suspect you are working black and not extend your stay. At the auslaenderbehoerde they speak (and you have to also read and write german, for the forms etc) german and will be very unimpressed if you try and deal with them in english, and it will go against you for any longer-term stay application.

I basically went through this exact thing last month. My husband speaks German well, but I don't, and we needed to extend our visa for a year. The difference between our situation and yours is that he'll be studying here for a year, but it didn't seem like that was the key issue for the auslanderbehorde. They seemed to be relieved when we told them we only needed the visa for a year. I think having a definite time limit is good, at least as far as the office is concerned. As far as having a job, it's difficult to work without a work permit, and you have to apply for that, too - they tend to require a job offer and proof that you have a degree so they can feel like educated folks will be filling these jobs, especially for teaching. Even with a job in line, though, they want to know that you have money, so having extra funds in your account is important. They sort of grilled us about how we were going to support ourselves, even mentally tallying up monthly expenses for rent and insurance and all (you have to have proof of insurance, too, for an extended visa) and then asking how we were going to make ends meet. The best thing to do is to have more documents than you think you need when you go in. They love documents. Stamped documents.

A few people here on TT have discussed the process for getting a visa to teach English freelance (tor talks about what you need to do in part above) so use the search function to get more info on how to do that and at which language schools to apply (you'll probably need to focus on teaching adults). I think that may be your best option, along with a fortified bank account. If you are bilingual Eng/Spanish, use that as a selling point (ability to teach both languages). Try to get written references as well.

if your girlfriend has a degree in political science maybe she can get an internship at the Aspen Institute Berlin or the American Academy. Have a look at their websites and try to get in for an interview.

Don't worry about not having the TEFL certificate.
Just bring in a standard business resume, highlighting any teaching experience of course.

good luck.

I have a question along these lines: my husband is here on a freelance contract position for 3 months, although they want to extend it one more month; however, we just did the tourist visa initially (the people that hired him said this way he would only be responsible for US taxes, or something like that, I think it may have just been easier for them)... SO, if we try to extend our stay by one month and report his income to the visa people, are we going to get in trouble? We are hoping to return for a three year contract this summer, so we don't want to do anything that would impede that (and we will insist on a proper visa from the people that hire him!!!). Basically, he's working here without a work visa- are we breaking the law?!?!?

At the risk of being OT nw2Berlin, if your girlfriend's a Political Science grad and you've got experience in German Literature (nw--is that Northwestern?) you might find something here:

http://www.atlantic-community.org/index.ph...obopportunities

An internship will buy you some time--the ABH will also parcel out partial-year visa extensions, so you don't have to be thinking in terms of years at the start.

And jeneve, IMHO he is breaking German law, but I am no lawyer. I would keep that income quiet.

I'm in a slightly different situation, but have similar questions about all this. I'm employed in the UK on a short-term contract (until May, and with a UK work permit) and I am currently in Berlin as a tourist. I'd like to stay here until May, and would like to do so legally rather than leaving the country every couple of months and coming back in and hoping they don't catch on. (As an aside, does anyone know if that strategy works? I've read varying opinions online.)

I have UK and US bank accounts, and I'm covered by UK NHS health care. Two questions:

- Do I need to show money in a German bank account? Or is it enough to show funds in foreign accounts and/or proof of income from a foreign country?

- Does NHS count as health insurance here? I know I can apply for a card in the UK that entitles me to health care in all EU countries, based on the fact that I have NHS coverage. Unfortunately I have to do it in person, so it will have to wait until the next time I return there for a visit. This leads me to believe that I'm covered here (or would be, with the right card anway).

Thanks for any advice.

kurteous, ABH told me my NHS EHIC was not sufficient at the time that I first applied for a visa to stay. Perhaps you will have better luck.

Jeneve, the auslaenderebeoerde have nothing to do with tax, that'll be your local friendly finanzamt. They also won't tell the finanzamt you are working etc because of data protection laws/not their jurisdiction. Also you can't officially work in germany unless you have permission (your first post-three-month tourist visa extension will very probably carry a warning against employment and self-employment). Another possibility is that they asked me to write a little A4 page story (in german, I presumed was better than english) about why I wanted to be in germany etc for my first visa extension application. I always used foreign (not german) bank account print-outs as proof of life.

new2berlin. hmm. isn't this stuff you should've thought through prior to moving to germany? wonder how you were able to land an apartment.

Well thanks for the advice there hallo... We may not seem as organized as some who have made the jump to Germany, but we figured we'd give it a shot. And if we weren't able to stay longer, then hell, we had three good months in a wonderful country. In no way are we throwing our hats in the ring quite yet, we still have two more months to find some tasty jobs and fill out all the correct paper work. Thanks again for all those who have responsed with "helpful" replies.

i am merely being honest. berlin --just under 20% unemployment. recent change to immigration law. infamous german bureaucracy. maximum number of days allowed to stay in germany per year --90 days. per year. not an exit/re-enter/exit thing, like one can do in other countries.

here's stuff you should look into. this is just off the top of my head.

1.)register with the police --prior to going to the immigration office.
2.) show the police your rental contract to prove that you actually live somewhere.
3.) take the rental contract and the police form with you to the immigration office.
4.) along with the rental contract and the police form, you of course will need to bring your passport. you should probably bring the original (not a copy) of your university degree and anything else to prove that you have an education and didn't just wash up on an italian beach and walk to germany.
5.) bring your CV and job offers with you. Job offers should be stamped with the company's special stamp (that all german companies have) and signed.
6.) hopefully you speak german. english speaking people were once fondly thought of, but that all ended around 2003. but if you are canadian, you will be treated well.
7.) could be good to bring a bank statement. better if the statement is from a german bank
8.) also bring proof of health insurance. *this is very important*

You don't register (Anmeldung) with the police anymore, the local council (town hall) handles this.

I know a US citizen who's spent more than a decade in Berlin without papers, so it must be possible. If they stamp your passport on entry, you might encounter problems somewhere along the line, but if you enter the country legally without a passport check (e.g. by land from another Schengen country) it would be difficult to prove how long you've been here.


That entitles you to emergency or short-term essential treatment (not sure on the precise details), but won't count as health insurance for residence purposes.

So we still haven't registered our place of residence with the local town hall. The reason we haven't done this yet, is that we are sub-letting an apartment and don't really have a contract drawn out with our sub-letter. Yet another complication is that she has never registered and we don't want to get her into trouble! Will this be a problem, or do we not even need to worry about this stuff?

Hopefully others will comment on this, but the smart thing for you to do might be to leave the Schengen area while still within the 90-day tourist window, peferably getting your passport stamped leaving the Schengen area, and entering a non-Schengen country, then coming back to Germany and getting your passport stamped, then doing your Anmeldung within a week of re-arrival in Germany. This way you would avoid any fine for failing to register within a week of arrival, as you are supposed to do.

As for the sub-let, you will have to show them something in writing to prove you have a place of adequate size in which to live. I personally doubt that they would check to see if the person you are subletting from is registered or not (what is this person's situation in Berlin?) but, at any rate, you need to register and also need a place to live, so you might want to think about finding something else for the longer term.

There may well be people who have been here for quite some time illegally. I would advise anyone not to do it, and not just because your chances of getting caught are so high.

Incidentally, I would not count on being able to find "tasty jobs" within two months in Berlin. The internship suggestions are good, and teaching English or signing up for intensive German courses (for your girlfriend) are more likely options than the two of you finding permanent jobs within two months. Germans with degrees in the humanities gnerally have quite some difficulty finding jobs, so you can imagine it will be even tougher for an American with a bachelor's degree and little work experience who has to convince a company to hire him and go through the process of requesting a work visa for him. People who don't speak German and have little or no work experience have an even harder time.

If your German is fluent, or near fluent, you might try getting looking into sales; however, I am almost certain you will have to do some sort of internship to get your foot in the door.

Laws on tourist visas in the Schengen countries are very specific. Stays of only three out of 6 months permitted -- lots of discussion of this in other Toytown links. At the end of the year most of the new EU entrants join the system meaning there are no more nearby places like Poland to go & hang out to stay in compliance. Croatia, I think, would be the closest. Some people go out for just a short vacation and come back, get themselves stamped in, and if you're white and straight-looking it seems doubtful anyone will really check into this (but it does NOT comply with the 3 of 6 rule & therefor is not legal). If you're non-white and/or punky/anarchisty looking, you are opening yourself up for problems; still I know such a person (white anarchist) who's been here over a year, doing this, and I know an older white American man who's been illegal for something like 17 years here. Each of them could be deported at any moment, of course.

Register as students in a German language course, I'd say -- it's the only real way as you cannot present yourselves as either artists (performing or plastic) or free-lance writers/journalists, which in my investigations seem to be the only people who get residency with relative ease not having a fixed job. I've asked probably every single immigrant I've met here in the last year how they do it & aside from marrying a German, these are the only ways people have any success staying legally (barring a real job that is). If you score admission to one of the state universities here (Humboldt, TU or Frei), your tuition will be so low that essentially it will cost less than a transit pass for the corresponding period of time (a free benefit of being a student). You will probably have to leave in the meantime, however, because the next semester won't start until April (mid-Oct was when this one started).

So I agree with the others, get the appointment ASAP with the Ausländerbehörde unless you are going to sit out a few months in another country which gives you more time. And get all your paperwork in order -- proof of Anmeldung w/ the Bürgeramt, money in German bank account (700 euros monthly for EACH of you), bona fide rental contract, proof of health insurance that covers you HERE, 2 biometrically correct photos (and of course the paperwork associated w/ the university enrollment if you decide to go that route). As a student you would be permitted to do a certain low level of work but I don't know how much before you get into real tax payments which is a whole extra level of paperwork. To be honest, Berlin has more than its share of people living marginally; the Germans really don't want any more (their perspective, not mine). It's not easy...

"To be honest, Berlin has more than its share of people living marginally; the Germans really don't want any more (their perspective, not mine). It's not easy..."

Probably the most truest statement Ive heard, Its hard for everyone, and being an Auslander.. ( you will learn to loath this term!!) Makes it no easier.

my advise is get your paperwork in order, and have a skill that 25,000 other Germans dont have! In Berlin sometimes its the odd Skill that sets you apart from the rest.

An Example something Crazy like Making Bike Tires for Fun..

Good Luck in your Quest in the city thats "Alm aber Sexy"

hi nw2berlin, i was in your situation a year and a half ago, and i know how tough it is to get info... and the offices don´t make it any easier.

first off, this helped me A LOT: http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/cons...vices/visa.html Copy everything in triplicate and bring it along to your first visit, even though they will just talk to you and give you an appointment for a second visit. (Get there early, by the way.) You don't actually need the police certificate of good conduct listed on the site above since you're already here.

you have to get a permit/visa in order to stay longer. you can choose one of a few tracks: work permit or study permit. (the other option is a tourist permit, but as a u.s. citizen, you didn´t need to get a tourist visa/permit or any other kind of visa before you came over; people in some other countries have to get the tourist (or other) visa even before they are allowed to visit.)

if you apply for a work visa, there is a fast track to take: apply for english teaching or some other occupation which a German cannot do, since they don't like to give visas to people who might be taking work away from a German citizen. I don't know if au pair work is also on the fast track or not.

It seems to be a three- or four-step process: first, you go to the Auslaenderbehoerde; you might need more information and have to go back a second time (or more - if they feel really mean that day). There they set up an appointment for you and you come back at that time and pay them for the thing they put in your passport saying you are allowed to work. Then you go to the office that gives you a tax number and fill out the form, and within a week or so they mail you the tax number to give to your employer so you can start working legally.

And yes, it is a catch-22: you need a job willing to give you a certificate of intent of employment in order to get your visa, and you need your visa/tax info in order to get a job. But if you call up all the small English schools you can find online, you will find some small place willing to give you a certificate of intent to employ (warning: if you are thinking about seriously taking the job long-term, know that they require you to travel up to two hours both ways and prepare lessons without pay - though they usually have lesson materials already - and the usual wage is about 11-13 EUR per hour; plus, you are "selbststaendig" or self-employed, which means you yourself have to cover the costs of health insurance, pension plan, and any other business expenses, as well as setting aside money for tax time, and I've momentarily forgotten what else - it's a lot once you add it up, and at one point I calculated that I was making approx. 2 EUR per hour once those things were all added in).

Information about Selbststaendigkeit:

http://p219.ezboard.com/The-Myth-about-Sch...opicID=51.topic
http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp...;story_id=31054

Good info from Berlitz, a biggie in the English teaching market, plus insider TT info about their rates of pay:

http://careerservices.berlitz.com/Europe/d...=DE&cCode=3
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t57912.html

Here are some other English schools in Berlin you might start with:

http://www.kindersprachclub.de/
http://www.lbt-languages.de/english/
http://www.inlingua-berlin.de/sprachkurse.html
http://www.arenalingua.de/
content.asp?lid=1&font_flg=0&sdid=0&did0=19&wpid=16&mgid=362&ptid=0&pid=0&sid=00000184795D524756565D645146415D44063F181553414A04241446030A101A241B0B0E
0B171E320D1159060603640A0A1B1B085C3A0D0C121D471E231C5A1A064843654D58444B5B5E7B5B4
85B5C5F466A595B414858577D54515C5D504B65://http://www.arenalingua.de/
content...D54515C5D504B65://http://www.arenalingua.de/
content...D54515C5D504B65

Thanks again for all the info, especially solagratia! It's really nice to hear that people have been in situations like ours, and made it through to live another day! We're taking all this info and are going to do the best we can to make this thing work. We were actually getting a little down, and then along comes an angel... hell yeah!

solagratia, excellent post, and hopefully a lot of other non-EU citizens will benefit from the info you provided. Also, I think a lot of people from the US who want to live and work in Germany don't realize how much tougher it is for Americans to get a job here than in the US, even if they speak excellent German.

Thanks also to people who replied with advice for my situation. Looks like I should be able to get an extension to my tourist stay by first getting insurance and then getting my money in order to show that I'm self-sufficient. And good luck to you, nw2berlin!

Okay so I just want to start off by saying that I'm going to try an give as much information as I can but I really could use advice on what people think. I'm going to graduate from an American University next spring (may 2009) and I'm planning to try an move back to Berlin to possibly enroll in a language school. I think my main objective right now is not only to learn German (I've looked into the IH school in Schoneberg, feel free if you know some better suggestions) but also to find out about obtaining a resident permit (an work visa?) once I do get over there. I've actually studied in Berlin before for about five months at Humboldt University (classes in English though ). I don't really know the exact details of how to obtain a residence permit or work visa. I've also thought of looking into getting an English teaching certification and teaching English over there. I know that this so far seems vague but I'm just looking for some good suggestions of how to live over there, learn the language, and still be able to work to support myself (granted i've saved up a bunch of money for living expenses for awhile). Also I'm looking to live specifically in Berlin.

bah! a scatter-brained message I know...but i guess that's how my plans are

Topics merged by admin

you don't need a TEFL certificate to teach english. it could help. but in the end, a university degree works as well. if you want to teach in berlin, you won't make more than about €12/teaching hour working at a local school, which is not a lot of money as you will end up with very few hours/week.

it is virtually impossible to get a visa and a work permit. but if you are in school, this should work. ultimately, you should plan on marrying one of the many depressive locals perferably from the east as they will think you are rich because you are from north america.

TEFLs are easily obtained, cheap to do and can be done online...

i disagree...it's not easy at all to get a job without a TEFL cert. most won't hire you without one and i know friends that have been teaching english without one and have been getting less and less work because of bosses giving the work to certified teachers. plus, the going rates are a lil over 15 euros for 45 minutes.. i wouldn't even bother with a school that offered 12 per teaching hour. i don't personally know about the work permit issues but i know americans that have applied and gotten their visa after about 5 weeks or so. and the very last comment is quite laughable (and i hope you were joking.)

humourless americans

as i learned in basic economics, when conducting surveys or research or issuing information, if we say 'my friends blah blah blah,' well that's the equivalent of citing wikipedia in a research paper.

but if we were to do this (and i don't want to use myself and my friends as examples), but basically the schools in berlin suck. the pay _is_ around €12 --sometimes less and if you are lucky, more. when i first moved here, i worked as a teacher and earned okay money because i got in with a school that gave me 8 - 10/hour days and i only had to work 1 or 2 weeks per month and i lived quite well (for berlin). you can make more money teaching in east germany more like in the €25 - €45 range. there are too many english teachers in berlin so, according to the laws of econ, supply strips demand, so they can pay teachers whatever they want. and whatever you make, you have to fork over 19.9% of it to deutsche rentenversicherungs bund (aka, the federal pension program) if you make over €400/month. but at this point, this is too much information.

p.s., unless someone is independently wealthy or working under the table (which i don't advise --once kicked out of germany, you are blackballed from the EU, which is at last count, around 27 countries), a visa without a work permit is worthless.

believe whatever you want, but i have a lot of friends who teach english, some of whom are american and had to go thru the visas and that's how about long it took.

sheesh.

and i'm sure everyone is telling you the truth. are we talking about 2008 or are you talking about 2003 or so. there was an immigration law change here not too long ago. it's not so simple.

2008.00

but if I get a study visa can't i work about 20 hours a week or something?

I am pretty sure that with a student visa (2 year) you are allowed to work the first year during vacations, and after that 90 work days a year, or up to 20 hours a week...but perhaps I don't understand mine properly? It says: "Beschäftigung im ersten Jahr Erteilung nur während der Ferienzeit erlaubt. Im übringen Beschäftigung, die insgesamt 90 Tage oder 180 halbe Tage nicht überschreitet, sowie Ausübung studentischer Nebentätigkeit gestattet."

Did I translate that wrong? For my sake, I hope not.

Hi there, hopefully this will help anyone who is trying to get a self-employment visa. Or, just trying to find a means of obtaining any sort of visa to be able to stay in Germany. Please look here: http://4dayvisa.tumblr.com

omg i'm so frustrated. Please, someone help me.

I am American and want to apply for a work permit. I have been in Berlin for three weeks. I have a letter of intent to hire from a language school, current passport, adequate money in the bank account, and police clearance from the states. I have been told that I also need to have a residence sorted out, but this links says otherwise:

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/cons...employment.html

I have read through all the information and links posted here and still do not have a clear answer on how to make an appointment for application.

I understand that I am supposed to call the "mission" in my living area. That's Prenzlauer Berg. wtf is the number???? and where is the office?

this frustration may the result of my inability to speak German I reluctantly admit, but someone please take pity on my uneducated ass and tell me who/where to call.

thanks a billion

Fill this form, have this job description filled by your future employer ... and follow these instructions

first form i know about, second is brand new, so thanks.

third link is in German (which i previously mentioned i don't know) and there is no English equivalent despite the little flag. i've seen this page already.

it doesn't help me with WHO/WHERE to call to make an appointment to "apply in person at my local mission."

i need the phone number of the office to apply at. actually, i think i have figured it out, 902694118, but NO ONE ever picks up. i have tried now at least one dozen times.

Had you read the German embassy´s website thoroughly you would have detected that these are the "local missions" where Americans living in America should apply in person ... once in Germany you have to make an appointment with the local Ausländerbehörde:

Landesamt für Bürger- und Ordnungsangelegenheiten
– Ausländerbehörde –
Friedrich-Krause-Ufer 24
13353 Berlin

I have read a few posts and have a feeling for what is required to be allowed to enter Berlin to live.
In brief, I would like to live for 6 months or so before looking for work, and would like to figure out if it's possible.

I have a degree in computer science and experience writing financial software. I am sure I could find a job easily but I don't want to find a job before I move to Berlin. I would like to move there as a student to study the German language (I would start here in the states), and while I'm there explore my job options.
I have enough money to meet the requirement (I have over 12,000 euros for one year), and I would get health insurance from the school.

My question is how difficult is it to have a student visa turned into a work visa?
Again I'd much rather line up a job while in Berlin than line one up over the internet only to find out it's not what I want to do.

Even if I can't find work and have to leave when my money runs out, so be it - but I'd like to know the option of getting a work visa exists before I go and sell off my current apartment.

thanks
Lucas